A balad for GS - Page 4

Aeson · December 4, 2003, 01:17

Why can't some people just come out and target who they are talking about, instead of doing this?

MZ,

Many of the problems in this forum can be attributed to statements made about a team in regards to their members, or vice versa.

When you say 'some members', without identifying who they are, then you are in effect targetting every member who you haven't excluded through whatever qualifications you've added. Either you are targetting 'me', and just too cowardly to come out and say so, or you're not targetting 'me', but formatting it in such a way that 'I' still feel you are talking about me.

(the 'me' and 'I' are to signify a first person perspective of anyone within the group you apply your statement to)

Aeson · December 4, 2003, 01:18

Quote:

But I also respectively say, your team also has its fair share of whiners...who's only goal is to hijack the game into their own playstyle.

HE,

You have much the same problem. You apply a stigma onto a group of people, based on someone you associate with them.

That you say 'some of' GS is trying to hijack the game into their own personal playstyle is also hypocritical. On several occasions you've made the statement that if people don't like the way the forum runs (you being a major instigator of how it does run), that they should leave the forum. It's the same principal that you are accusing 'some of' GS of.

You want the forum to be a place of disorder, where anything goes (even psychological warfare), and there is no curtesy or respect. Obviously that sort of forum can't exist in conjunction with one where people are considerate of each other. Your solution to the problem is not to try and compromise with those who would like a respectful forum, but rather for everyone who doesn't agree with you to leave.

Tassadar500 · December 4, 2003, 01:36

I don't see why this needed to turn into a flame war!? GS sucks the fun out of the game, GS acts like the other teams are AI, they take things too seriously. It doesn't matter! Whether they do or don't it doesn't really matter. GS can play this game however it likes. Tell me how GS has sucked the fun out of the game? There is no substantial proof; it takes two to tango

All in all I am glad I am on Lego

Master Zen · December 4, 2003, 01:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Aeson
Why can't some people just come out and target who they are talking about, instead of doing this?

MZ,

Many of the problems in this forum can be attributed to statements made about a team in regards to their members, or vice versa.

When you say 'some members', without identifying who they are, then you are in effect targetting every member who you haven't excluded through whatever qualifications you've added. Either you are targetting 'me', and just too cowardly to come out and say so, or you're not targetting 'me', but formatting it in such a way that 'I' still feel you are talking about me.

(the 'me' and 'I' are to signify a first person perspective of anyone within the group you apply your statement to)

Aeson, rest assured it wasn't directed at you. Perhaps I should have simply said "previous influential members" of GS, since by "leadership" it would be assumed to be you and Nathan who were the previous head honchos at GS and who I really have no gripe against but rather respect tremendously for your unequalled micromanagement of GS's internal affairs.

With the risk of sounding cowardly, no, I will not say names, but it should be pretty obvious to see who are the same people who constantly get pissed at seemingly inoffensive posts, and this has been going on since the Vox war.

Master Zen · December 4, 2003, 01:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Nuclear Master
I don't see why this needed to turn into a flame war!? GS sucks the fun out of the game, GS acts like the other teams are AI, they take things too seriously. It doesn't matter! Whether they do or don't it doesn't really matter. GS can play this game however it likes. Tell me how GS has sucked the fun out of the game? There is no substantial proof; it takes two to tango

All in all I am glad I am on Lego

Lego sucks the fun out of the game. Lego never participates in flame fests. Boo hoo.

-MZ

Tassadar500 · December 4, 2003, 01:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Zen

Lego sucks the fun out of the game. Lego never participates in flame fests. Boo hoo.

-MZ

Hot_Enamel · December 4, 2003, 02:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Aeson
HE,

You have much the same problem. You apply a stigma onto a group of people, based on someone you associate with them.

That you say 'some of' GS is trying to hijack the game into their own personal playstyle is also hypocritical. On several occasions you've made the statement that if people don't like the way the forum runs (you being a major instigator of how it does run), that they should leave the forum. It's the same principal that you are accusing 'some of' GS of.

You want the forum to be a place of disorder, where anything goes (even psychological warfare), and there is no curtesy or respect. Obviously that sort of forum can't exist in conjunction with one where people are considerate of each other. Your solution to the problem is not to try and compromise with those who would like a respectful forum, but rather for everyone who doesn't agree with you to leave.

OK, fine, its very easy to identify the problem... offer up a solution.

But just note :
I enjoy all of those respectable/analysis posts and often join in on them. I dont want them to stop.
I will only jump in with two feet when the poster is so far off the mark, they need a slap back to reality.

I have suggested in the past, that the members who dislike the trash talking either, avoid the open forum, avoid theads that end up in trash talking, put the trash talkers on ignore, or ignore/skip over the posts they dont want to read.

I simply ask, that people do not tell me how to play this game, because it is neither their game, nor their rules to enforce.

I intentionally avoid "nominating a person" because it invariably results in the "thats a personal attack" claim. And given the amount of reporting to mods that goes on, I try to avoid it.

So...can GS please raise a poll in their forum on how they like me & others to post.

So far..
Nominating a person from GS is a personal attack.
Broadening the target to "Team GS" attacks every member.
And now saying "some GS members" (which is neither a personal attack or attacking a whole team) is not allowed.
I would appreciate some clarity on this.

Aeson · December 4, 2003, 02:45

HE,

You fail again. You ask GS to raise a poll, and I'm not in GS anymore. You are referencing (albeit, out of context) statements made by me, so address me.

Quote:

Nominating a person from GS is a personal attack.

It's a personal attack regardless of what team they are on.

Quote:

Broadening the target to "Team GS" attacks every member.

As you will notice if you read my statements, I was using broader, abstract qualifiers. I wasn't commenting about "Team GS", but any group of people. Witness: "You apply a stigma onto a group of people, based on someone you associate with them."

I did use your statement about GS as an analogy. Don't get confused though! An analogy isn't meant to be the point, the analogy is meant to illustrate the point. As the point I wanted to make was brought to my mind (ie. illustrated) because of your statement concerning GS, it is natural that I chose it for the analogy.

Quote:

I would appreciate some clarity on this.

It is very simple. If you wish to make derogatory remarks about anyone, you have 4 choices.

1. Out of respect for other people, you don't make the remark, and you are acting considerate.

2. Out of fear of retaliation (argument or mod), you don't make the remark, and you are acting cowardly. (the means sucks, but the end is good at least)

3. You can make that remark properly targetted, and you are acting like an ******* to your target. (at least you're being straightforward and honest)

4. Or, you can make that remark improperly targetted, and you are acting like an ******* to people who you aren't targetting. At least in a literary sense. (you're delving into bigotry and stereotyping here)

I'm not saying you can't say what you want. (though the mods and forum rules may) I'm just making fun of the way you express yourself and pointing out flaws in your reasoning. Because as you claim, it's a nice release with no possible harm done. I mean, if you don't like it, you can go away, right?

In any case, it's up to you how you want to portray yourself here on the forum. Just realize that how you portray yourself is how other people will see you.

Master Zen · December 4, 2003, 02:58

Aeson, you're exaggerating a bit, where are the "derogatory" remarks being made? That's a pretty hefty word considering what's being said here.

Aeson · December 4, 2003, 02:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Zen
Aeson, rest assured it wasn't directed at you. Perhaps I should have simply said "previous influential members" of GS, since by "leadership" it would be assumed to be you and Nathan who were the previous head honchos at GS and who I really have no gripe against but rather respect tremendously for your unequalled micromanagement of GS's internal affairs.

You misread my intent. I would much prefer it if you were 'directing' it at me. At least then it would be directed.

Quote:

With the risk of sounding cowardly, no, I will not say names, but it should be pretty obvious to see who are the same people who constantly get pissed at seemingly inoffensive posts, and this has been going on since the Vox war.

If you don't feel comfortable saying it to their face, you probably shouldn't say it at all. Trying to make derogatory comments in a manner which will avoid retaliation is nothing more than gossiping behind someone's back.

Aeson · December 4, 2003, 03:03

I consider things like "childish", "totally humorless", "whiners", and the like to be derogatory remarks. Don't you? They certainly aren't compliments.

That's not even referencing the "liars", "exploiters", "cowards", and various other less complimentary accusations and insinuations that have made themselves abundant on this forum. (yes, I participate in some of it, and some of the worst at that)

Master Zen · December 4, 2003, 03:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Aeson
I consider things like "childish", "totally humorless", "whiners", and the like to be derogatory remarks. Don't you? They certainly aren't compliments.

Well is there any other way to say things as they are or as people perceive? Trust me, H_E is not alone in his point of view, you'd be surprised at how many people from a lot of teams share it.

Quote:

That's not even referencing the "liars", "exploiters", "cowards", and various other less complimentary accusations and insinuations that have made themselves abundant on this forum. (yes, I participate in some of it, and some of the worst at that)

Again, most of those remarks have been made against in-game situations, not at the people themselves. Yes, GoW has lied, yes I have lied as Consul of GoW. Does that make me a liar as Rodrigo the person? Nope. Learn the difference between things said to us as people, and things said to us as members of the game. I'm sure that if that happens, we shall get along much much better.

Hot_Enamel · December 4, 2003, 04:13

Aeson,

I did not know you left GS, and I clearly know when I am literacy outmatched.

But let's see if I understand.

You would rather I say

"P!ss off Aeson. You are no longer a member of any team, and should keep you opinions to yourself"

and not

"Even the GS members who have left still like to whine"

The first is directed at the person I wanted, the second could be directed at anyone.

Thanks for the tip

Aeson · December 4, 2003, 04:36

Quote:

Learn the difference between things said to us as people, and things said to us as members of the game.

As you noted, not all of those remarks were made against in-game personas. certainly my remarks about your posting style are not in-game. Just because some comments are made about in-game persona's, and others made publicly, doesn't mean I don't understand the difference. But that's all the evidence you supply to support your insinuations (which are made against me as a poster obviously).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "childish", "totally humorless", and "whiners" comments also seem to be dealing with actual posters in most cases, and not their in-game persona. I am not arguing that people are not those things, just that those accusations have been made, and are derogatory. If you wish to debate this point, feel free.

You keep trying to invent arguments and attribute them to me so that you can refute them. Lazy and intellectually dishonest. (a few more derogatory remarks to add to the list)

notyoueither · December 4, 2003, 05:07

Why don't you shove it, HE. Your posts in this public forum have never been anything other than a troll at best, or a poor joke at worst. You are a good **** disturber, but I have seen precious little evidence of your worth in any other way.

And UnO, you are tired of GS? Well, buddy, your histrionics when your... lop-sided proposals were not accepted were very cute. More sad than cute, actually, but anyway...

This game went to crap a long time ago. It became a lot worse than the acrimony between Poly and GCA. One would wonder why people who have participated in this forum could be surprised that a team from another site could hate so much that they would do... intersting things. One needs only look at this forum to see where the problems with games such as this can be.

Oh well, I am done with them. Wallow in your own **** for all I care. This is a game I choose not to participate in.

PS, yes, gloating at a victory over an opponent is very poor form.

PPS, I never had a problem with your stories UnO. Never a one. I have had a problem with some other aspects of your hard-done-by persona though.

Hot_Enamel · December 4, 2003, 05:19

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
Why don't you shove it, HE. Your posts in this public forum have never been anything other than a troll at best, or a poor joke at worst. You are a good **** disturber, but I have seen precious little evidence of your worth in any other way.

Oh well, I am done with them. Wallow in your own **** for all I care. This is a game I choose not to participate in.

Well...you know where that leave button is.
Just to the top of the page, right next to your teams name.

Theseus & Cort ... I think you now see the reason why it is difficult to accept peace offers.
You only need to scratch the surface to see the hate.

notyoueither · December 4, 2003, 05:23

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

ha

Aeson · December 4, 2003, 07:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Hot_Enamel
You would rather I say

"P!ss off Aeson. You are no longer a member of any team, and should keep you opinions to yourself"

and not

"Even the GS members who have left still like to whine"

The first is directed at the person I wanted, the second could be directed at anyone.

Thanks for the tip

Much better, though now you're using another loophole to throw in problematic remarks while trying to avoid retaliation. I'm hopeful you realized this and specifically meant to take advantage of it.

It almost slipped past me (and the whole post too, sorry for such a delayed response). I just have to ask, was it intentional? If so, it was brilliant.

Hot_Enamel · December 4, 2003, 07:47

Actually, I was hoping you would retaliate...but you saw through me.

I suckered NYE in though

Aeson · December 4, 2003, 07:53

Oh, very sorry. I was giving you credit for something you must have just lucked into. Trying to push people's buttons certainly wasn't it.

GhengisFarb™ · December 4, 2003, 07:58

Sheesh, can't we take the most "emotional" or pissed off members from the teams and let them go at it in some small Civ3 PBEMs to work out the anger on one another...............

"This week: UnOrthOdOx vs notyoueither in a Conquests Grudge Match.

....to the death!"

"Next week Sir Ralph versus GhengisFarb."
(Not sure I would show up for that one.

)

Darekill · December 4, 2003, 08:05

Quote:

"Next week Sir Ralph versus GhengisFarb."
(Not sure I would show up for that one

Why? Are you afraid you could accidently win?

GhengisFarb™ · December 4, 2003, 08:06

He's whuppin my butt in every pbem we're in.

Cept for maybe the Create a Civ PBEM where I'm on a deserted island now thanks to my lack of forward planning and loss of my only trading partner.

Hot_Enamel · December 4, 2003, 08:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Aeson
Oh, very sorry. I was giving you credit for something you must have just lucked into. Trying to push people's buttons certainly wasn't it.

To be honest, I dont know what the hell you are posting about 90% of the time.

I know you are trying to dazzle me with wordplay. But it can only work if I know what you are saying.

Like I said above... I know when I am outmatched

Hot_Enamel · December 4, 2003, 08:24

Quote:

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
He's whuppin my butt in every pbem we're in.

GF - Is there a PBEM where you havent had your butt whipped ?

Aeson · December 4, 2003, 08:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Hot_Enamel
To be honest, I dont know what the hell you are posting about 90% of the time.

Don't worry, you aren't missing anything.

As I said before. It makes this the perfect game.

Hot_Enamel · December 4, 2003, 08:35

Perhaps if you typed slower, I would get it ?

Harovan · December 4, 2003, 08:35

Or for that matter, is there a PBEM at all where GF isn't in?

Aeson · December 4, 2003, 08:41

Bah, I already type about 2 words a minute when posting here... any slower and I wouldn't be able to post at all (which would probably make what I'm posting more understandable to all of us).

GhengisFarb™ · December 4, 2003, 09:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Hot_Enamel

GF - Is there a PBEM where you havent had your butt whipped ?

Can't think of any.