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Old February 19, 2004, 05:11   #121
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yes I also liked Vader because he looked cool. What can I say, black is my favourite color . I don't agree with his actions, but I wouldn't mind having the power he has
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Old February 23, 2004, 22:41   #122
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i JUST REALLY HATE ALL OF THE CRAPPY DIALOGUE WITH CARTH, AND ZAALBAAR, AND MISSION, AND JOLEE, AND JUHANI'S WHINING, I HATE THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! other than though, it is really a top notch game. Four marks!
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Old February 28, 2004, 12:01   #123
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I've heard that you can kill Carth if you are dark side female. Apparently if you can get him to fall in love with you, after he runs off on the sf planet, you will run into him on the star forge itself. I assume he took bastilla's G-Wing. Unfortunately in the dark female game I just finished, I didn't get that. Probably cause I killed dustil and that turned him off.

Any way to kill Zaalbar and Canderous?
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Old February 28, 2004, 14:06   #124
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As for lying to the Jedi Council, you get the feeling that they're pretty desperate
They know you're lying, they can sense the darkness in you. But they hope that its just a phase. (remember you arent really bad, the big uber powerful thingy turned you bad)


Quote:
I tried to play a dark side character, but after a few hours in Taris I got pretty much the same feeling. All those evil things just had no charm, class or enjoyment. I wonder if this is only because we played the light side first and have already developed attachments with all the people, or because the designers have been quite the geniuses and made the dark side just what it's supposed to be: emotionally very unrewarding.
The first time I played the game I was going down the light side, so I could save the universe! Then Carth started talking. I thought "Oh well I can put up with one moronic PMSing whiny *****" And then I met Bastila. From that point on the universe was doomed.

I tried a second time to play on the light side but to no avail.


Quote:
i JUST REALLY HATE ALL OF THE CRAPPY DIALOGUE WITH CARTH, AND ZAALBAAR, AND MISSION, AND JOLEE, AND JUHANI'S WHINING, I HATE THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!! other than though, it is really a top notch game. Four marks!
dead on


Although I cant complain about Jolee, the only other time he was in my party other than on Wookie world was when Bastila finally took a turn for the better, quit complaining and just painted the walls with his and Juhanis blood
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Old February 29, 2004, 04:03   #125
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As much as this gme ruined my life, I, much like a heroine addict, kept running back to it. Is there any news about a sequel, or another game kinda like this comig out? I love rpg's I just hate the whole Final Fantasy anime type rpg's that have the genre's nuts in a vice.
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Old March 1, 2004, 09:31   #126
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Originally posted by Space05us
They know you're lying, they can sense the darkness in you. But they hope that its just a phase. (remember you arent really bad, the big uber powerful thingy turned you bad)
Spoiler:
While it is true that the Star Forge has the strange tendency of turning good people evil for no good reason at all, I was always under the impression that Revan's fall to the Dark Side began before he and Malak had even begun looking for the Star Maps. That it happened during the Mandalorian Wars.

Firstly, he impatiently leapt straight into action, whereas the Jedi Council, Like Bastila said, could sense that there was something lurking out there that would consume them all had they sent the entire order off into the unknown like that.

Secondly, as the war went on, Revan began employing very brutal, very ruthless and morally questionable tactics once he had been given command of a large amount of the Republic fleet. For examples, just look at the correct answers to the hypotheticals the Kashyyyk Star Map computer asks you. After all, Revan installed that computer there himself.

And finally, at the end of the war, he seemed to want to make the Mandalorian POWs suffer. As Canderous said, he burnt their weapons, armour and basilisk droids right in front of them. He left them with nothing they could call their own.

At the beginning, Revan had a noble cause. But his quest for justice soon descended into a hunt for bloody vengeance. And once he found the Star Maps, and tasted the dark power they emanated, he begun embracing this Dark Side of himself that had built up during the war. Finding the Star Forge itself only completed his fall.



Quote:
The first time I played the game I was going down the light side, so I could save the universe! Then Carth started talking. I thought "Oh well I can put up with one moronic PMSing whiny *****" And then I met Bastila. From that point on the universe was doomed.

I tried a second time to play on the light side but to no avail.
Spoiler:
I'm no Carth lover, but I didn't really mind him. I admit there were times he did get on my nerves, like when he threw his tantrum about being left out of the loop, and when he ran off to let Mission get butchered in the Dark Side ending. But I've had to put up with people at least three times as whiny as Carth in real life, so I guess I'm just used to it.

As for Bastila, I too was annoyed with her attitude on Taris. I even had my doubts that such a spoiled, stuck-up, prissy little Jedi princess could possibly be the love interest. That was, until I found the first Star Map on Dantooine, and could start advancing her subplot.

I could go on with an in-depth analysis of her character, sourcing from the boringly endless discussions about her character on the Bioware KOTOR forums, but to sum it up, that attitude was probably all an act.

That act was a mental and emotional defence mechanism for the sake of keeping an emotional distance from everyone. Remember that she knew your former identity, and wasn't allowed to tell you about it. Can you imagine how much of a nag your conscience would be given the same circumstances? Add that to the bond with her, which makes it near impossible to hide something like that, and inevitably, there will be trouble when she lets herself get closer. Like she says herself on the Star Forge when you redeem her in the Light Side ending, you are Darth Revan, she couldn't tell you. She resented herself for that.

Besides, the teasing and flirting conversation options in the Bastila subplot were a fun way of unravelling the mental defenses, and getting close enough to get a real idea as to who she really is beneath the act. Her redemption in the Male Light Sider plot was in my opinion a very moving scene. I usually don't go for love stories. Most love stories in my experience are boring, nauseating or just plain ridiculous, but this one is the only one I've ever found enjoyable.



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Although I cant complain about Jolee, the only other time he was in my party other than on Wookie world was when Bastila finally took a turn for the better, quit complaining and just painted the walls with his and Juhanis blood
Spoiler:
Jolee is definitely an excellent character. I really like his 'I don't have to be part of the Order to resist the Dark Side' kind of attitude. I didn't bring him along in my party much (I am usually a Sentinel, and I take Bastila and HK-47 or Canderous with me. Two Sentinels leaves little room for a Consular to be much help), but every time I returned to the Ebon Hawk, I'd be ready for the next chapter of his subplot, and the humourously senile ramblings that came with it.

The Dark Side plot sickened me right from the start. But when the **** hits the fan on the Star Forge planet, it just gets worse. Bastila's fate would be more tragic that way, and of course, Jolee, Juhani, and Mission die needlessly. Anyway, when I played my one and only Dark Side game, Juhani was already dead on Dantooine. Still, it didn't make killing Jolee any easier though.
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Old March 1, 2004, 15:33   #127
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spoiler#1
It was just ambission and the drive to get rid of the Mandalorians. Remember the Mandalorians were evil bastards themselves, they killed men, women, and children if the they failed to protect themselves. The big cheese was frustrated by the fact that the council was idley sitting by while it all happend so he decided to take matters into his own hands, similar to how Jolee doesnt want to be in the order. It was the power that eventualy corrupted him but it was the emotions he was feeling towards the Council and the Mandalorians that started him down that path.


Quote:
spoiler#2
Due to thier being too irritating Ive never bothered advancing the subplot of either Carth or Bastila. I guess next time I play I will as it seems I've missed a lot of the story by avoiding it.


Quote:
spoiler#3
I still dont understand how following the dark side actually sickens people, its just a game



how do you write the spoiler thingies?
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Old March 1, 2004, 15:56   #128
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Use [spoiler].
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Old March 1, 2004, 20:07   #129
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I wish you could return to Tarris after you leave. Damn linear gameplay

What's the reasoning not letting you return? (in reference to design decision- I know why you can't actually do it).
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Old March 1, 2004, 20:22   #130
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What's the reasoning not letting you return? (in reference to design decision- I know why you can't actually do it).
Someone ended up short in the creativity department and they just carbon copied Darth Vader, spruced him up a bit and Viola! Lord Malak.
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Old March 1, 2004, 21:26   #131
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Due to thier being too irritating Ive never bothered advancing the subplot of either Carth or Bastila. I guess next time I play I will as it seems I've missed a lot of the story by avoiding it.
Damn straight What kind of RPGer are you? Great stories between all of the characters, IMO.
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Old March 1, 2004, 22:11   #132
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Originally posted by Space05us
It was just ambission and the drive to get rid of the Mandalorians. Remember the Mandalorians were evil bastards themselves, they killed men, women, and children if the they failed to protect themselves. The big cheese was frustrated by the fact that the council was idley sitting by while it all happend so he decided to take matters into his own hands, similar to how Jolee doesnt want to be in the order. It was the power that eventualy corrupted him but it was the emotions he was feeling towards the Council and the Mandalorians that started him down that path.
That's true.


Quote:
Due to thier being too irritating Ive never bothered advancing the subplot of either Carth or Bastila. I guess next time I play I will as it seems I've missed a lot of the story by avoiding it.
Damn straight. Bastila actually turns out to be the deepest, most well-written character in the game. And this is despite the fact that she ends up down the same tragic path as a certain other female champion of the Light and male character's love interest from a certain other title by Bioware.

As for Carth, well... you have to play as a female character to learn everything possible about his character. If you're male, you don't really have to have much to do with him, seeing as how his subplot stops at the point he tells you about his wife and son in that case.


Quote:
I still dont understand how following the dark side actually sickens people, its just a game
That's also true. The fact that it is only a game is the only reason I actually managed to get through the game on the Dark Side once. But the overall plot had such a great impact on me that I found myself sickened by the behaviour of my Dark Side character regardless. I just preferred to be myself when playing, and create a character I could relate to. A guy who murders, bullies and extorts without second thought isn't exactly that kind of character.
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Old March 2, 2004, 01:15   #133
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I still dont understand how following the dark side actually sickens people, its just a game
The sign of a good RPG. It's so immersive that some choices will actually make you sick .
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Old March 2, 2004, 05:25   #134
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The sign of a good RPG. It's so immersive that some choices will actually make you sick
its a game no one really gets hurt or suffers. If you actually experience feelings* while playing than you need to see a psychologist.



* excitement and frustration dont count**

** No I dont mean that kind of excitement or frustration.
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Old March 2, 2004, 09:29   #135
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Originally posted by Space05us
Quote:
The sign of a good RPG. It's so immersive that some choices will actually make you sick
its a game no one really gets hurt or suffers. If you actually experience feelings* while playing than you need to see a psychologist.
Actually, it's a Role Playing game.
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Old March 2, 2004, 16:08   #136
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Quote:
Originally posted by Space05us
Quote:
The sign of a good RPG. It's so immersive that some choices will actually make you sick
its a game no one really gets hurt or suffers. If you actually experience feelings* while playing than you need to see a psychologist.



* excitement and frustration dont count**

** No I dont mean that kind of excitement or frustration.
Most evil options in most games don't do anything for me. But I'll admit in this game, I did feel a little bad doing them. I remember on Tarris some kids were throwing rocks on some alien on the highest level (the good section of town). I couldn't bear not doing something to make the kids stop, even though I'm playing a maximum evil character. So I threatened the kids and chased them away.
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Old March 2, 2004, 19:53   #137
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its a game no one really gets hurt or suffers. If you actually experience feelings* while playing than you need to see a psychologist.
There is where you are wrong. As Osweld said it is a ROLE PLAYING game. The best role playing games should make you feel emotions, or else they aren't doing their jobs that great.

Quote:
But I'll admit in this game, I did feel a little bad doing them.
Sign of a great role playing experience.
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Old March 2, 2004, 23:01   #138
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you're all freaks.
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Old March 3, 2004, 02:10   #139
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You've just never experienced the greatness of a role playing game. The whole point is to make you feel that way. You probably never will 'get it' either . You just ain't a RPGer.
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Old March 3, 2004, 02:24   #140
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he's an emotionless freak
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Old March 3, 2004, 03:25   #141
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You've just never experienced the greatness of a role playing game
I have, and they were good games. nothing more.


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he's an emotionless freak
My friends have actually called me that before, all in jest of course. Then the man in a white coat gave me some candy, my friends got jealous and left me.



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Old March 3, 2004, 17:43   #142
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I have, and they were good games. nothing more.
Like I said, you've never experienced the greatness. You just aren't an RPGer... that's all .
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Old March 4, 2004, 12:59   #143
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I've heard that Carth is allegedly your love interest as a female character; my first game was as a light-side female, and there was never any "romantic" dialogue or situations with Carth, if I remember correctly.
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Old March 4, 2004, 14:07   #144
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I think there are some dialogue options which initiate it... kind of flirty options to choose from.
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Old March 4, 2004, 14:49   #145
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Maybe I never noticed 'em because in my heart of hearts I wanted to beat down that whiny *****.
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Old March 4, 2004, 15:12   #146
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In addition to Carth, you can supposedly romance Juhani with a light side female. At least that's what I've read; no first-hand experience.... yet.
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Old March 4, 2004, 17:46   #147
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any of you get to kill carth? I've heard that he shows up at the forge after running away while mission gets wasted by zaalbar.
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Old March 5, 2004, 03:50   #148
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Quote:
Originally posted by Guynemer
I've heard that Carth is allegedly your love interest as a female character; my first game was as a light-side female, and there was never any "romantic" dialogue or situations with Carth, if I remember correctly.
I didn't get any either. Of course I didn't get a romance option in NWN HOTU either. And that game has them as well.

Even in computer games I can't get laid
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Old March 5, 2004, 03:53   #149
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Even in computer games I can't get laid
go play Fallout 2. if you cant get laid in that game you're hopeless.
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Old March 5, 2004, 03:59   #150
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you can just pay in that game
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