Which civ will be Agricultural and Commercial?

player1 · November 2, 2003, 15:36

As far as I know (not sure if it is confirmed), I think that C3C will have all combinations of traits covered.
That leaves 28 combos and 3 doubled pairs.

Now we know:
Byzantines (Sci & Sea)
Duch (Agr & Sea)
Hitties (Com & Exp)
Incas (Agr & Exp)
Mayans (Agr & Ind)
Portugese (Exp & Sea)
Sumerians (Agr & Sci)
English (Com & Sea)

and that Carthaginians are Seafaring
and Celts and Iroques are Agricultural

In order to cover all Seafaring combos we still need:
-one Religious civ (probably Spaniards, considering that they were Commercial and Religious, which was doubled with Indians)
-one Industrious civ (probably Carthaginians, since they were Commercial and Industrious, which was doubled with French, and it's confirmed that they are Seafaring)
-one Militaristic civ (probably Vikings, since they were Militaristic and Expansionistic, which was doubled with Zulus and Mongols)

In order to cover all Agricultural combos we still need:
-one Religious civ (probably Iroques, since they were Religious and Expansionistic, which was doubled with Arabs, and it's confirmed that they are Agricultural)
-one Militaristic civ (probably Celts, since they were Religious and Militaristic, which was doubled with Aztecs and Japanise, and it's confirmed that they are Agricultural)

-and one Commercial civ, which I have no idea which one could be

If previous presumptions were true, it leaves 4 doubled pairs:
Greeks & Koreans (Com & Sci)
Aztecs and Japanese (Mil & Rel)
Otomans & Persians (Ind & Sci)
Mongols & Zulus (Exp and Mil)

Since, I doubt that any of old civs would get more then one trait changed, it could mean that Greeks or Koreans are Agricultural and Commercial.

On the other hand, maybe Indians are Agricultural and Commercial and that of these two civs (Greeks or Koreans) is Religious and Commercial instead (to make up for change of Indians traits).

Of course there is also possibility that French or Romans are Religious and Commercial, but I think that it's pretty low chance.

So what does anybody think?

Which civilization will be Agricultural and Commercial?

GhengisFarb™ · November 2, 2003, 16:18

Well, you should find out for sure in a couple of days.

player1 · November 2, 2003, 16:20

3 looong days.

Chieftess · November 2, 2003, 19:12

Actually 2. It comes out on the 4th. Or, if you look at it this way, just 36 hours away (on the east coast) until the answer is known.

Sobieski · November 4, 2003, 14:33

The Iroquois are not agricultural/commercial

Stuie · November 4, 2003, 14:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Sobieski
The Iroquois are not agricultural/commercial

Did you mean "are now agricultural/commercial"? Because then you would be correct.

Fried-Psitalon · November 4, 2003, 14:45

What he said. A devastating blow to the Iroquois as far as early warmongering, IMO.

alexman · November 4, 2003, 14:56

The Iroquois no longer have scouts?
Quick, someone make a different scout unit animation!

Yahweh Sabaoth · November 4, 2003, 14:56

Most likely the three combos are:

Ottomans & Persia (Sci, Ind)
Korea & Greece (Com, Sci)
Zulu & Mongols (Exp, Mil)

The Aztecs are now Agricultural and Militaristic, I'm fairly sure; there's more info on CFC.

Still, I'm waiting for the definitive word. Can someone who's got the game please let us know what changes are in store?

alexman · November 4, 2003, 15:21

Trait changes:

Aztecs - Militaristic and Agricultural
Iroquois - Commercial and Agricultural
England - Commercial and Seafaring
Scandinavia - Militaristic and Seafaring
Celts - Religious and Agricultural
Carthage - Industrious and Seafaring
Spain - Religious and Seafaring

player1 · November 4, 2003, 16:27

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman
Trait changes:

Aztecs - Militaristic and Agricultural
Iroquois - Commercial and Agricultural
England - Commercial and Seafaring
Scandinavia - Militaristic and Seafaring
Celts - Religious and Agricultural
Carthage - Industrious and Seafaring
Spain - Religious and Seafaring

Interesting. Iroquois have both of their tratits changed.
I didn't really expected that, but still, traits do fit them (traded with French, and not nomads like some other tribes).

player1 · November 4, 2003, 16:29

Now, doubles left are:
Greeks & Koreans (Com & Sci)
Ottomans & Persians (Ind & Sci)
Mongols & Zulu (Exp and Mil)

Fried-Psitalon · November 4, 2003, 16:34

Your trait-doubles list is correct.

Louis XXIV · November 4, 2003, 22:53

Quote:

Originally posted by player1

Interesting. Iroquois have both of their tratits changed.
I didn't really expected that, but still, traits do fit them (traded with French, and not nomads like some other tribes).

I think that's exactly right

The Iroquois were content throughout most of their history to being where they were. Since they were more or less isolated, diseases didn't hit them at first. However, the trade for Guns did. They tried to control as much Beaver land as possible to trade furs for guns. Also, they wanted the other Native Americans to trade to them, so they could trade to Europe.

I think the new traits fit, but they might weaken them.

alexman · November 4, 2003, 23:43

Can some history guru please give me a historical explanation of the Ottomans' traits? It seems to me that Ind/Sci are the two traits that least fit that civ.

I was fully expecting them to be the first civ to be changed. At least swap traits with China!

Yahweh Sabaoth · November 5, 2003, 11:26

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman
Can some history guru please give me a historical explanation of the Ottomans' traits? It seems to me that Ind/Sci are the two traits that least fit that civ.

I was fully expecting them to be the first civ to be changed. At least swap traits with China!

This is the case I'd make for Persia and China. Ind/Sci is VERY appropriate for China, and Ind/Mil is pretty good for Persia, although frankly, Religious makes more sense than anything else for Persia.

The Ottomans had a very sophisticated empire for a long time, drawing on learning from all corners of Eurasia... they were eventually eclipsed by the European powers but nonetheless they carried on the mantle of Islamic learning, which was waaaaay more advanced than European learning for a long time.

I think Commercial might be more appropriate than Scientific, and I'm sure Industrious could be something else, but it's not a bad fit. Not too bad a fit. My Armenian stepfather, who's an expert on the Ottoman empire, told me he thought that it was most appropriate.

But yeah... China's Ind/Mil is ridiculous. Ind/Agr makes the most sense, but Scientific definitely deserves consideration. Home of gunpowder, the first canal digging, and so many wonderful philsophies... oh well.

mimi · November 5, 2003, 11:57

I don't think the developers can win... no matter what they come up with, someone is unhappy with it.

Sigh... I'm just gonna have to deal with my beloved fascism being so far along the tech tree and the silly Iroquios making millions off their furs.

Dominae · November 5, 2003, 12:02

Quote:

Originally posted by player1
Ottomans & Persians (Ind & Sci)

Too bad these are in the same culture group (for those that care)...

Dominae

Stuie · November 5, 2003, 12:12

Quote:

Originally posted by mimi
Sigh... I'm just gonna have to deal with my beloved fascism being so far along the tech tree.....

Where do you think Fascism should occur? It was a movement that had its origins in the late 1800s, and wasn't really put into practice until the 1920s. I actually think it's too early in the tech tree. It should come after radio.

mimi · November 5, 2003, 12:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Stuie

Where do you think Fascism should occur? It was a movement that had its origins in the late 1800s, and wasn't really put into practice until the 1920s. I actually think it's too early in the tech tree. It should come after radio.

Oh, it's probably where it needs to be for the purposes of the game, though I wish it wasn't on the same arm as communism 'cause, really , you'll only research that arm specifically for these govt types and now they'll "compete" against each other.

It's an ancient concept - rule the world with people who are like me (xenophobia has been part of human existence since we crawled out of the trees/landed/were put here)...

I don't know why we only "see" it occuring in the early 20th century since it is part of human nature to behave in a fascist manner (Ok, so pretend it was only "early" human nature, we are more "civilized" now and realize the wrong-ness in such behavior, but the instinct was fundamental to our development.)