I have to know: Marine+Berserk Armies?

Theseus · November 4, 2003, 21:50

Do they work?

/me thinks that the Scandinavians are going to be BAD-*SSES anyway, but will burn a kid goat in thanks for a functional Marine+3xBerserk Army.

[Note: No offense to any goat lovers out there...]

RobC · November 4, 2003, 22:47

I'm pretty sure that mixed unit armies cannot amphibiously attack, even if the original units can; they have to be all the same unit (all Berserks or Marines should work)

Kuciwalker · November 5, 2003, 00:35

I bet it would work; it probably only tests the flags.

publius · November 5, 2003, 01:57

they can't amphibiously attack because you can't load a unit bearing unit into another unit bearing unit.

Kuciwalker · November 5, 2003, 01:57

Yes, you CAN load armies into a transport. Trust me.

ChrisiusMaximus · November 5, 2003, 03:27

Yes trust him, I do it all the time

, load unit bearing units into unit bearing units that is

Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS · November 5, 2003, 11:33

An army gains the abilities of the units it is comprised of if and only if all of said units are of the same type. Therefore, a marine+berserk army will NOT have the ability to do an amphibious assault. Although both units can do an amphibious assault, Marines and Berserks are radically different units and realistically operate in different ways.

And yes you can load armies onto transports.

TheArsenal · November 5, 2003, 12:33

No flaming or trolling. Just asking. This comment confuses me, because I don’t understand the concept of “realistically operate in different ways”. Marine/ Berserk Army can attack on land with no problems, as can all mixed Armies I’ve seen. I have put Cavalry in with Immortals, which couldn’t operate more differently. I am unable to grasp what makes the amphibious assault that much different than the land based attack in that respect.

- edit: grammar, of course.

Tall Stranger · November 5, 2003, 12:50

I was wondering what that anguished wail I heard a few minutes ago was. Now I know that Theseus just read Mike's post.

Mike, with all due respect, I agree with TheArsenal: the logic of your explanation doesn't hold up. I could understand (maybe) if you had said that it would be too unbalancing, but "operate in different ways"??

Too bad, I was really hoping to get me a goat steak!

Shogun Gunner · November 5, 2003, 13:43

Quote:

Originally posted by publius
they can't amphibiously attack because you can't load a unit bearing unit into another unit bearing unit.

You can't load an army if the transport doesn't have enough capacity for everyone in the army. It's awesome when transports show up...boatloads of armies on their way to conquer the enemy!!!

Arrian · November 5, 2003, 13:49

Doh! Sorry Theseus!

And yeah, the explanation doesn't really work.

-Arrian

G'Kar · November 5, 2003, 13:57

You know I've never blown an army on a bunch of marines before... but a marine army could knockout many cities with ease. With the new improvements, I'm gonna have to build more armies from now on.

Tacit_Exit · November 5, 2003, 15:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS
An army gains the abilities of the units it is comprised of if and only if all of said units are of the same type.

So does this mean a Paratrooper Army can Paradrop?

Shogun Gunner · November 5, 2003, 15:49

I hope the AI computer player uses armies more too. That could change some warfare strategies if the computer was adapt at punching a hole in your lines with an army or two.

RobC · November 5, 2003, 16:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrian
Doh! Sorry Theseus!

And yeah, the explanation doesn't really work.

-Arrian

Maybe a better explanation is "it's just way easier to code that way..."

Arrian · November 5, 2003, 17:09

That I would accept.

-Arrian

Jaguar · November 5, 2003, 18:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS
An army gains the abilities of the units it is comprised of if and only if all of said units are of the same type. Therefore, a marine+berserk army will NOT have the ability to do an amphibious assault. Although both units can do an amphibious assault, Marines and Berserks are radically different units and realistically operate in different ways.

And yes you can load armies onto transports.

So you mean that an all marine army would be amphibious, and an all bezerk army would be amphibious, but once you mix them it doesn't work?

FrustratedPoet · November 5, 2003, 19:25

Yes that's what he means.

Kuciwalker · November 5, 2003, 19:34

Quote:

Originally posted by RobC

Maybe a better explanation is "it's just way easier to code that way..."

I don't even see that though. How much more difficult is it to compare flags on a unit than to compare type?

RobC · November 5, 2003, 20:07

Quote:

Originally posted by skywalker

I don't even see that though. How much more difficult is it to compare flags on a unit than to compare type?

The reason probably has to do with the possibility of different flags affecting each other in unplanned or unexpected ways. It's just much safer to say that the types have to be the same (therefore guaranteeing that all the flags are aligned) than to just compare one flag and hope it doesn't make something else either break or end up doing something wierd (the king unit flag comes to mind...)

Theseus · November 5, 2003, 21:58

AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will NEVER give up on this... I will spam Bruno Bonnell if I have too!!

"Dear Mr. Bonnell,

I am an avid fan of Civ3, and congratulations on C3C.

I am, however, a wee bit perturbed with an oversight. As you may know, I am a fan of mixed-unit Armies. Well, let me tell you, sir, the lack of Berserk and Marine cooperation in Armies is an OUTRAGE!!

Seeing as Atari is a public company, and as CEO you are bound, BOUND may I remind you, under Sarbanes-Oxley to disclose all critical aspects of your business operations, I examined your recent 10-K for information re this disastrous oversight.

And lo and behold... NOTHING!!! No mention of Berserks, Marines, or Armies at all!!!

WHAT ARE YOU HIDING??!!

I demand that this be addressed immediately. I suggest a conference call with the full bevy of Wall Street analysts, a public statement, and a clearly laid out plan for redress.

Otherwise, the SEC shall be informed (and you know how they like mixed-unit Armies!!). And, you will be pleased to know that Graef Crystal (another fan of mixed-unit Armies) has already been informed of this unfortunate incident, and is eagerly awaiting the outcome before publicly commenting on your latest compensation package.

On a brighter note, C3C seems to be the next iteration of the Civilization series that PTW was not... again, my congratulations, and I strongly suggest that Atari throw a beer bash for all involved, including its own staff, Firaxis, Breakaway, and the beta testers (of which I was NOT one, which will be discussed in my next missive).

Respectfully,

Theseus"

(Thanks for the response, Mike! Fix it in a patch, maybe? C'mon, it'd be cool... the 'Theseus Patch'.

)

Kuciwalker · November 6, 2003, 00:02

@ Theseus

I can just picture how that would be recieved.

Wooglin · November 6, 2003, 03:05

Honestly, as a lawyer I've recieved letters like that, but yours is by far the best. If I worked for Atari, I would give in.

--Woog

Tiberius · November 6, 2003, 03:17

Poor Theseus

From what I understand from this thread, I assume that Paratrooper armies can paradrop, Modern Paratrooper armies can paradrop, but mixed paratrooper-modern paratrooper mixed armies can't paradrop. Am I correct?

Btw, Theseus, have you ever imagined how a mixed berserk-marines army, making an amphibious assault, would look like in real life?