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Old November 25, 2000, 20:59   #31
WarVoid
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Ok, i've finished the scenario. I played a Rome and conquered Iberia and Italy first cause it was unpopulated and I wanted a secure sphere around the capital.

Don't bother with the barbarians, they're too big. Fortify a few legion in the mountains to fend them off from getting to the cities.

Then I moved across the Pillars and took out Carthage, which went pretty smoothly.

I then had amassed troops in Italy by the time Carthage fell. So as my troops from the Phoenician war moved into Egypt my troops in Italy moved out into Macedonia and Greece.

The two flanks met at Tyre and we forced the Perisans and Egyptains back into defeat.

By the time I reached Persepolis it had grown to a size 11 city and was well defended. But I also had about a hundred units pouring in from the now large and settled western half of the empire.

Overall a beautiful scenario. Excellent units, graphics, love the SPQC background (wonderful touch) and much more.

I can't wait to play the other civs!

For ha ha's I played as the Phoenicians (which you spelled wrong ) and that was pretty fun just by itself.

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Old November 26, 2000, 00:07   #32
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What you could do would be to give the Romans the tech in the Mysticism slot, which doubles the effect of Temples... Temples who relieve 2 unhappy people are better then a single citizen... Anyhow, I'll get back to the scenario tomorrow....

Hmm... I'm thinking of bypassing Massila and taking out Iberia first....
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Old November 26, 2000, 04:28   #33
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Is there room left for another playtester? I'd love to playtest this one, if you can use one more...

khanmaned@hotmail.com

Also, if you want/need hosting or alternative hosting, I could put that up on my website

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Old November 26, 2000, 06:14   #34
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Thanks for all comments

I just sent the corrected fourth Roman events to all of you.

Ok, I´ll do the following: I´ll make a reworked version of the scn that includes...

-corrected spelling
-some techtree changes (e.g. for more happyness)
-some terrain changes/improvements (e.g. royal highway, more other roads/irrigations around some enemy cities etc.)
-reduce trade a bit (no more trade bonus for hills)
-improved events (perhaps the BC thing saves enough space to create more enemy units)
-the events set (I think also four files) for the Macedonians/Phoenicians

I´ll finish these things next weekend, so you can relax a bit now...

If someone has more suggestions for the new version, feel free to post it here.

BTW, one tester has suggested that I make only the Romans playable now, and release a separate scn for the Macedonians. I think it is a good idea, but currently I´ll try to make that extra events for the other civs. But I plan to make such a game a bit harder, because when you play as Macedonians/Phoenicians, you´ll face a Roman war machine that receives heavy support via events...

Warvoid, some questions to you:

-How many turns you needed to finish the game?
-Do you found the later game too easy?
-Should I increase the tech paradigm?

KhanMan, currently I have enough testers, but when I´ve finished the new version next weekend, it would be good when some people play the other playable civs, so I´ll contact you then...


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Old November 26, 2000, 06:30   #35
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Hola BeBro !!! Really, a great scenario !!!! Well, apart of tha samnite helmet ( you did this on purpose to represent all italic tribes, right ? ), it seems quite good.
De Samnio
Tip number two: Capua was the main city of Sabellian tribes ( civilized Samnites o' the plains ), and not of Samnites. Maybe you can change Events.txt this way "Capua, the most important Campanian city": it'll be more realistic.
And yes southern cities were a lot more hard to take over by Romans because Samnites were good warriors and Samnium mountains were a lot easy to defend & fortify and only when Romans surrounded Samnium with fortress and colonies like Lucera or Venusia ( and so cutted all trades between samnite sheeperd population and plains ) they managed to tame them a little. After all, Gaul and Samnites taught to Rome how to conquer the whole mediterranean lands...
And remember that Samnites were finally defeated only by L. C. Silla at Porta Collina's battle ( they were Marius' best allies and supporters )...

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Old November 26, 2000, 06:32   #36
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And please get rid of Aquileia...

PS I finally get a recostructive picture of Tarquinia. I posted it to you. Hope you got it...
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Old November 26, 2000, 07:01   #37
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Yes Prometeus, I´ll change that Capua event to "Campanian", sounds better (I wasn´t sure if it was a Samnite city)

quote:

Originally posted by Prometeus on 11-26-2000 05:32 AM
And please get rid of Aquileia...


But why, Prometeus?

Edit: Just received the pic, thanks!

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Old November 26, 2000, 08:01   #38
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Aquileia was founded by, I believe, Augustus or even later.
I haven't had the time to check much yet, I will today, but my first impression is: Fantastic!

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Old November 26, 2000, 10:10   #39
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You know Bernd that I am only waiting to play Carthago and teach those evil Romans a lesson, right?

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Old November 26, 2000, 14:31   #40
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quote:

Originally posted by Stefan Härtel on 11-26-2000 07:01 AM
Aquileia was founded by, I believe, Augustus or even later.



It was founded in the first half of II century BC to protect Venetic allies and latine colonies from Iapodian, Istrian and Celtic raids... Augustus elevated it to full Roman law colony status
A tip: if you really want to place a city in that area, place it one more square on west direction on the coast and call it Opitergium ( the modern Oderzo ); it was a well developed Venetic emporium...
Other possibilities are:
a) one more square in the hinterland and call it Tervisium ( Treviso );
b) two more squares near mountains and call it Bellonum ( Belluno ).

PS Karalis, with K...


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Old November 26, 2000, 14:46   #41
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Thanks, Prometeus, i´ll change Aquileia to Opitergium or Tervisium

Edit: ah, forgot...I have a map that shows Caralis with C , it looks more Latin so, but what is the correct spelling?

Shadowstrike, do you think I should give Rome the tech for the Quinqueremes whith that "first Roman fleet" event in 261BC? But I´m afraid this would be too easy. What do the others think about this problem?

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Old November 26, 2000, 15:26   #42
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It would be historically accurate, but I'm not sure if this would be to unbalancing.

OK, I was away for most of the morning... Better get started again....
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Old November 26, 2000, 15:57   #43
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Played it so far until 312 BC. The Scenario is great though there isn't that much strategy to it but except to do what the Romans did . I subdued the south without Tarent, still sieging it. In the north, still sieging Ravenna. The basic strategy is to Fortify your units around the towns and get free units and then attack when you have enough. Alexander the GReat doesn't do much, the free greeks are still pretty strong, lost mabye a city. You should add units to the macedonians and not allow the Greeks to build Spartans only the normal "free" greek. The Spartans will be thorugh events, should make the Macedonian conquest easier. That's all for now but I'll another mini-rsume when i get to the second event file.

Strong points until now:
ART
EVENTS
Smooth Gameplay

Negative Points;
Historical accuracy lacking somewhat
nothing else
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Old November 26, 2000, 16:07   #44
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I just found another problem. The Amphitheatre doesn't relieve any unhappiness. I think the problem lies in the tech tree (the tech slot that makes Cathedrals work isn't the one that gives you this building).

I think this design tip specifies which tech:
http://sleague.apolyton.net/Guides/sldt_advances.shtml

Other then tht, I think I'm doing fine. I have a foothold in Spain, but Hannibal just came and took one of my cities... With the enemy having siege towers, I think it will be a while until I can reclaim it...
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Old November 26, 2000, 16:31   #45
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Shadowstrike, I think the Quinquereme tech would be a big advantage for the Romans, probably too big for a Human player...

VietMinh, I made Spartans available, because Hellas was under the Spartan hegemony 386BC. However, I mainly named all Greeks after a known polis (Spartans, Athenians Thebanes) because I want to avoid that all Greek units are only "hoplites". Remember also that in the 4th century BC more and more Greek hoplites (also Spartans) became mercenaries who fought in many different countries.

For the Macedonians, my goal was not that the Macedonians conquer the complete Persian Empire as Alex did. I know this isn´t accurate, but in my eyes, it´s much better for the game - it would be a bit boring when the Romans meet only Macedonians in the east. In my tests the Macedonians conquered nearly the half of Persia (sometimes more, sometimes less), slower as Alex did, but I think this is ok.
It´s also better when you think about the Hellenistic period with its different Hellenistic realms, so when the Romans advance eastwards, you can consider Macedonia, Egypt and Persia as "Hellenistic" (I know, I know , but with the civ2 limitations...)

Ok, the next days I´ll probably be busy with other things, but I´m still optimistic that I can finish the improved version next weekend.

Edit: just read your last post, Shadowstrike. Thanks for that hint, I´ll change this in the upcoming version

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Old November 26, 2000, 17:24   #46
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Yup, carthaginian spelling for Cagliari was Karalis ( Greek also ); Caralis was the latin form. And since you've placed it under carthaginian rule...

PS Two graphic tips:
a) Sacred Theban elitè Battallion was supposed by some historicians to carry a spear longer than usual greek ones, so this way they were able to tap better their more compact ranks' force. And they used the beotic shield, a little smaller than usual...
b) The "machaira" ( the short greek sword ) was a little curved and one-edged sword, like some butcher's knives or nepalese kukri, so it was more easy for hoplites to use them in a "whirlwind" skirmishing to cover their withdraw while returning into phalanx ranks. You can made one side a little darker to represent this; the way you painted it, it seems a two-edged bronze age minoan-micenaean sword ( lazy perfectionism, huh ? )...

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Old November 26, 2000, 17:42   #47
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Just a question for everyone else: After conquering the entirity of Italy, did you have to use ships a lot to get legions out of the natural barriers that are there (Massila, Sicily, & Iliyricum)?
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Old November 27, 2000, 01:40   #48
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I don't know if this will unbalance the scenario, but you might want to give the Romans a tech allowing them to build warships in Part II....
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Old November 27, 2000, 17:58   #49
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quote:

Originally posted by Prometeus on 11-26-2000 04:24 PM
Yup, carthaginian spelling for Cagliari was Karalis...


Are you sure? If I recall correctly, the Carthaginians never wrote vowels - at least when writing Punian/ Phoenician
I am also very confident that very soon Caralis will switch sides an become a Roman city...

However, Bernd, if you want further correction, referring to my maps (I checked 4 or 5 different ones) it's "Hadrumetum" and not "Hadrumentum".
But, without wanting to hurt you, Prom., I must say I don't think that things like names significantly downgrade the scenario or its historical accuracy...
I still enjoyed playing the less accurate older German versions, and I think things have improved since then -at least you can't irrigate forests anymore
Really good work, BeBro!

You always have to compromise between history, playability and opportunities offered by Civ2.
Just imagine the "horrible" fact that Alexandria is already on the map at the beginning of the scenario - even with two wonders... But on the one hand, you simply can't force the AI to found a City named "Alexandria" at this location in 332/331 and to build the two wonders in the proper time, on the other hand Alexandria became a very important City you couldn't leave out in the scenario, so you can't get around placing the city there...
I hope Civ3 will introduce an event like this.

P.S: One suggestion I would consider is adding a kind of King's Road in Persia to allow the Alexander a faster and more effective expansion. Of course you must be careful not to give the Persians to much trade by those roads...

Edit: Just saw that Civfan has posed this suggestion earlier, so I'm not the only one demanding this...
I also would be pleased to see the next (German or English) beta version soon...
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Old November 27, 2000, 19:34   #50
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The Carthagians seem pretty intent on having their loaded ships dash themselves on the walls of Rome.... Is there any way we can stop this? (maybe you might want to give all ships the "sub flag" so that they can't bombard land targets. Give all ships spot subs too or else they won't see one another....
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Old November 28, 2000, 01:38   #51
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quote:

Originally posted by Prometeus on
11-26-2000 04:24 PM

Yup, carthaginian spelling for Cagliari was Karalis...



quote:

Originally posted by SCDARS on 11-27-2000 04:58 PM


Are you sure? If I recall correctly, the Carthaginians never wrote vowels - at least when writing Punian/ Phoenician
I am also very confident that very soon Caralis will switch sides an become a Roman city...



Exactly was Krl... but Romans listened that name Karalis and - since there was no difference between a first C+a and K, as in italian today - wrote it Caralis. And since you've them sides switched, mantain Caralis, then...
And about switching sides, Cagliari is a legend in sardinian history, always on the winner side: betrayals of the state!!!!

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Old November 28, 2000, 10:00   #52
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Prometeus, I know, the Thebans used Sarissas earlier then Macedonians

For Caralis, if both spellings are possible, I´ll stay with the "C" to indicate that this is mainly a scn which should be played from the Roman view...

Shadowstrike, Romans should concentrate on their land forces (as in reality ), however a good warfleet makes a lot of things easier, it´s of course also needed to capture the islands.
I have to think a bit about these Carthaginian ships, I think the submarine flag for all warships isn´t the best solution, lets see...

Ingo, the king´s road will be definately in the next version, also the corrected Hadrumetum...



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Old November 30, 2000, 15:23   #53
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Simple question: I have a map taht shows the king´s road between Susa and Sardes, but not from Susa to Persepolis. Is that correct?

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Old December 1, 2000, 02:59   #54
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Stefan Haertel LIVES for questions like that!

Edit: For what it's worth I have a map which shows the same thing, including the info that it was completed by the end of the reign of Darius I (@490 BC).
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Old December 1, 2000, 10:05   #55
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Currently checking barbarian settlements in V-Iv century B.C. ... More to come.

PS Sadly, I have to announce to all of you that A-she-na and Skumand projects are currently suspended.
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Old December 1, 2000, 23:25   #56
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I think I've found a bug. I've captured Caralis, but a Pheonecian Petare (sp?) still appears there every few turns. I can disband it for the production, so the whole thing is wierd. Anyone have this problem too?
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Old December 2, 2000, 08:13   #57
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Kull, that´s a good idea, I´ll ask Stefan.

Prometeus, the Barb cities in ImpRom are named as the Roman cities in Germania later (as Iuvavum or Aquae), its´a bit inaccurate, but I think not really a big problem...

For your scn, what a pity...

Shadowstrike, yes I encountered the same problem, will change it. I´m still working on the update, hope that its ready tomorrow...

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Old December 2, 2000, 12:03   #58
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Ok, BeBro... it seems to be good enough. BTW the only wrong thing i found, "sic stantibus rebus", it's that first roman chronicles about Pannonia mentioned an "Eraviscanus pagus", and only later it was named Aquincum ( a brief historical note: in V-IV century BC that pagus was under illirian control; Celts "came" later in Hungary, so they were only able to partially "celticize" aborigenous tribes ).
I have also a Germany map with Roman campaigns and celtic settlements... If you need it...

Edit... yeah, that ******* "A-she-na" scenario... at least i'm not going to waste all the artworks . I'm recicling a lot of pics for my Chan Kuo... .
Can i send you the map ? I need a tip to stab if it's too much big or not...

Edit number two...
quote:

Idistavisus ?

Ahem, never mind, it was build probably after 150-140 BC...
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Old December 2, 2000, 15:45   #59
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Yup, Shadowstrike, but please wait until you´ve played the updated version. For the testing, if you are low on time, its not a problem, of course the real life comes first

Ok, I finished all changes except the events for the other civs. Changes are as follows:

-some terrain changes, including the king´s road in Persia
-"destroyed" Aquileia, using Opitergium instead now
-improved (I hope )events for the Romans
-techtree changes that should be better for the happiness, some others that should reduce the one time trade bonus
-changed Marius army reform, it upgrades your Legions only once now (more realistic)
-fixed the Caralis/Pentere thing
-improved spelling, e.g Phoenicians, I changed also some unit names, hope I made no new errors...
-introduced a second units file ( ) as well as a second rules file for the Romans, these files are automatically generated when you change to the 4th Roman events, they have three new enemy units...

I´ll enjoy some free time now , sending the scn to the testers tomorrow. I hope I can finish also the other events tomorrow, if not, I´ll do this in the next days. So, if I make no stupid errors, the release should be possible soon.

BTW, I love these christmas smileys

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Old December 2, 2000, 16:29   #60
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OK... I have to complete the scenario at least once before tomorrow!

Flee before my mighty legions!

Excuse me, I'm just into the "Roman" mindset right now...
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