FIRAXIS: A list of EASY fixes for the next C3C patch - Page 9

alexman · November 17, 2003, 19:50

statusperfect: Warpstorm has said that Firaxis has already fixed some corruption issues.

notyoueither · November 17, 2003, 20:00

re enslave as warriors...

You do know that unit upkeep is free for all captured units, right?

Dominae · November 17, 2003, 20:02

I'll second the Irrigation under Despotism and Curragh/Galley AI observations alexman just listed. What's funny is that the AI also apparently likes to put Mines on Plains now too! The faster the AI gets out of Despotism, the better.

Another observation: the Aztec AI builds Jags much later than it should. It seems to think that they're good complements to Swordsmen. In the early-game, Warriors, Archers and Spearmen are preferred, even though Jags are there ready to be built. The new "MP-friendly" Jag is definitely at the expense of its role in SP.

Dominae

asleepathewheel · November 17, 2003, 20:25

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman
Also, with the addition of Wonders to previously low-priority required techs (Mathematics and Polytheism), the AI now usually ignores Literature until the Middle Ages. If you give Literature a benefit already given by Writing, such as Military Alliances, there will be no difference in game play, but the AI will research Literature earlier.

I've noticed this, quite a problem. Who cares about hte G. Library after you've already gotten mono, feudal, invention etc. needs to be fixed.

joncnunn · November 17, 2003, 20:54

This was on Monarch, I guess the AI might have a bonus worker on this level.

Might be easist to fix this exploit by making workers totally non-sellable,

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman

There are no workers in the capitals you mention!

The workers you bought were probably the bonus workers the AI gets for difficulty level. Not an easy fix.

SirOsis · November 17, 2003, 21:37

In my attempt to add Austria to the game I came across this:

I noticed in the PediaIcons.txt that under the neutral victory there is an error in the #RACE_BYZANTINES section. Isabelle is the leader head when it should be Theodora. Change the following line: art\leaderheads\x_isabell victory neutral.pcx to art\leaderheads\X2_Theodora advisor.pcx

Austria is also not included in this file so any reference in the civlopedia shows a question mark unless the following lines are added:

#RACE_AUSTRIA
art\leaderheads\x2_Charles_V victory neutral.pcx
art\advisors\x2_Charles_V advisor.pcx

#HAPPY_RACE_AUSTRIA
art\leaderheads\x2_Charles_V victory happy lg.pcx

#SHAPP_RACE_AUSTRIA
art\leaderheads\x2_Charles_V victory happy sm.pcx

#LKISS_RACE_AUSTRIA
art\leaderheads\x2_Charles_V victory kiss lg.pcx

#SKISS_RACE_AUSTRIA
art\leaderheads\x2_Charles_V victory kiss sm.pcx

#ANGRY_RACE_AUSTRIA
art\leaderheads\x2_Charles_V victory angry sm.pcx

#ILOVE_RACE_AUSTRIA
art\leaderheads\x2_Charles_V victory heart sm.pcx

#LOVED_RACE_AUSTRIA
art\leaderheads\x2_Charles_V victory heart tiny.pcx

#LHURT_RACE_AUSTRIA
art\leaderheads\x2_Charles_V victory beatup lg.pcx

#HURTN_RACE_AUSTRIA
art\leaderheads\x2_Charles_V victory beatup sm.pcx

#ICON_RACE_AUSTRIA
art\civilopedia\icons\races\x2_Charles_V civpedia lg.pcx
art\civilopedia\icons\races\x2_Charles_V civpedia sm.pcx

alexman · November 18, 2003, 00:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Dominae
the Aztec AI builds Jags much later than it should. It seems to think that they're good complements to Swordsmen. In the early-game, Warriors, Archers and Spearmen are preferred, even though Jags are there ready to be built. The new "MP-friendly" Jag is definitely at the expense of its role in SP.

I didn't realize that the Aztecs can build both Warriors and jags now! It's because Jags are more expensive now, but still, their UU should replace the Warrior! This has to be a bug.

Dominae · November 18, 2003, 00:47

I believe the idea behind allowing the Aztecs to build Warriors was so that they could build cheaper units for upgrade to Swordsmen (15 Gold saved, yay!), as well as have a cheaper early-game scout unit that would not trigger a GA. There was (rightly) a big a worry that the Jag was going to be really bad in SP. Unfortunately the effect to the AI went unnoticed, I presume.

Either that, or (if my memory is failing me), it's a bug.

Dominae

Risa · November 18, 2003, 01:18

It's unlikely a bug. When I played Aztec, I found JW's icon in Warrior Code tech, which is one of default tech of them. I think it is an intentional change.

dexters · November 18, 2003, 01:46

Alex, just a wording issue with Catt's suggestion about making the AI NOT declare war on the human when they are half the world away.

Perhaps add "and AI" to make it apply to us and the AI civs. I think it's also better if the AI doesn't do this between themselves.

Inverse Icarus · November 18, 2003, 02:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Risa
It's unlikely a bug. When I played Aztec, I found JW's icon in Warrior Code tech, which is one of default tech of them. I think it is an intentional change.

no, that was intentional. they now require warrior code. yes, you start with it, but thats the requirement now. it's used to sort of justify the shield increase.

lockstep · November 18, 2003, 02:43

Regarding the Jaguar Warrior: My fírst thought also was 'This HAS to be a bug'. But Risa is right: Jaguar Warriors need Warrior Code now - seems like a design decision. The first UU that doesn't replace another unit. (I remember Firaxis wanted to do the Conquistador as an 'additional' UU in PtW, but eventually decided to make it replace the Explorer.)

Panag · November 18, 2003, 05:35

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman
A couple of AI observations:

The AI in Despotism irrigates grasslands again for no reason, after it was fixed in PTW not to do so. Sigh.

The AI starts building boats only after it has reached about half the OCN (which was increased in C3C, by the way), or after it has run out of room to expand. The result is that it very rarely builds curraghs.

hi ,

seems to be long term thinking , the AI seems to do it when no roads or whatever is needed , and at a later stage the grass is all used , ......

have a nice day

hobbie_tp · November 18, 2003, 10:48

This is not really a bug fix, but more a small suggestion. It's confusing on big maps to see all citys on the mini map. So it would be great if you would have the possibility to switch them off and see only the the colours of the different countries - similar to the button to display only the terrain of the world. Thanks!

alexman · November 18, 2003, 12:04

hobbie_tp, could you please post a screenshot of such a confusing mini map? I don't usually play on huge maps, so I haven't noticed the problem.

Arrian · November 18, 2003, 12:05

Re: republic free unit support...

I'm all for it, but it might be too strong. 1/2/3 might be better than 1/3/4. That, plus the 2g per unit over the limit upkeep cost, ought to balance it out.

It's either that or drop the upkeep back to 1g per unit and drop the free unit support... basically taking it back to PTW's version of republic. Frankly, I'd be fine either way.

-Arrian

DrSpike · November 18, 2003, 14:40

With 1 gold per unit for all units Republic is overpowered, full stop. As such the method chosen in Conquests should definitely nerf Republic, at least slightly. The way chosen is only good if its turns out the nerf dominates the buff.

It might, I haven't decided yet.......but I remain unconvinced.

hobbie_tp · November 18, 2003, 19:05

Hello alexman, here's a screenshot of a game on Marla's map, it's 256x204.

DrSpike · November 18, 2003, 19:16

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike
With 1 gold per unit for all units Republic is overpowered, full stop. As such the method chosen in Conquests should definitely nerf Republic, at least slightly. The way chosen is only good if its turns out the nerf dominates the buff.

It might, I haven't decided yet.......but I remain unconvinced.

Thinking about it a little more after playing tonight I am even more puzzled. Republic has been nerfed early game, and buffed late game. Even if the nerf turns out to dominate this really can't be the way to balance the govts. Republic should be a viable choice before the point in the game it is now, and late game should be dominated by democracy.

Far better would be to increase the corruption gap between the 2 representative govts, but make republic viable earlier than it is now with the 2 gold support per unit.

alexman · November 18, 2003, 19:23

Or just give Republic a ton of free units (like 30), but no free units per city. That way it becomes great early, but increasingly worse as your empire grows.

Of course then you would have the problem of balancing Monarchy and Republic in the ancient age.

The_Aussie_Lurker · November 18, 2003, 19:23

Actually, DrSpike, my solution to the Republic 'Problem' was to have TWO distinct types of Republic-a Classical and Modern Republic! The classical republic is the one you get in the Ancient age! It has lower War weariness and unit support cost, but higher corruption levels AND you have forced labour to hurry production! This simulates the kind of Republic which Ancient Rome and Carthage had! The Modern republic is available with Democracy (along with Democracy Gov.) has higher war weariness and unit support, but lower corruption and has paid labour! Also, each type of republic has it's own unique Small Wonder!

Anyway, I hope this helps you, DrSpike

!!

DrSpike · November 18, 2003, 19:49

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman
Or just give Republic a ton of free units (like 30), but no free units per city. That way it becomes great early, but increasingly worse as your empire grows.

Of course then you would have the problem of balancing Monarchy and Republic in the ancient age.

Yes, and it doesn't address the distance between Republic and Democracy. I think the best answer lies in increasing the corruption gap between the 2 representative govts. The unit support should stay as in PTW, otherwise Republic is too powerful as compared to Monarchy (like under your scheme) or doesn't come early enough, like the current C3C scheme.

Catt · November 18, 2003, 19:52

Another Civil Engineer Display Bug

When a city using civil engineeres completes a build project, the drop down list of available builds from the pop-up do not reflect the effect of the CEs, even though once selected the map view of the city (and the city view) will show a build time that includes the CE effects -- and selecting "zoom to city" brings you a view of the proper build times for various builds in the improvement lists.

Should be an easy one since the proper build times are a readily available data point and the algorithm for the drop down build-time is either (i) making a data call to the wrong location, or (ii) is separate (?) from other build-time calculators and has not been updated for the presence of CEs.

Catt

DrSpike · November 18, 2003, 19:52

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
Actually, DrSpike, my solution to the Republic 'Problem' was to have TWO distinct types of Republic-a Classical and Modern Republic! The classical republic is the one you get in the Ancient age! It has lower War weariness and unit support cost, but higher corruption levels AND you have forced labour to hurry production! This simulates the kind of Republic which Ancient Rome and Carthage had! The Modern republic is available with Democracy (along with Democracy Gov.) has higher war weariness and unit support, but lower corruption and has paid labour! Also, each type of republic has it's own unique Small Wonder!

Anyway, I hope this helps you, DrSpike

!!

This suggestion has some merit, but I don't think another govt will be added. Plus modern Republic would not really be differentiated from democracy.

The_Aussie_Lurker · November 18, 2003, 19:55

Ummm, DrSpike, look at my suggestion

!!! I think the problem with Republic in Civ3, generally, is that the enabling tech occurs around the time of the Roman Republic, yet the government they describe sounds more like our Modern Republics-like the US-which was never how Rome really was! After all, the ROmans and Carthaganians were more warlike, but Probably had big problems with Corruption in their far-flung cities! I doubt that they would have used paid labour to fast track most of their big construction projects either-but I could be wrong on this last point

! Still, I think there should be TWO types of Republic, and possibly even two types of Democracy (Classical and Modern) What do YOU guys think?

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

alexman · November 18, 2003, 20:02

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike

Yes, and it doesn't address the distance between Republic and Democracy.

It does, actually, because of the 2gpt unit mainenance.

But let's leave this discussion for another thread. It's likely that the designers will not do anything drastic to the Republic in a patch, especially not adding new governments, without testing it extensively first.

Jon Miller · November 18, 2003, 20:05

how would you differentiate them?

Jon Miller

DrSpike · November 18, 2003, 20:05

Agreed. I wont ruin your easy fixes thread.

Greg1 · November 19, 2003, 12:44

In the Civ editor, if you choose an icon for a unit, you ought to automatically get the associated animation. If the animation is not available, then the icon should not be offered. As things stand, a guy like me who knows nothing about programming can't write scenarios using the animations that the various scenarios do (unless I modify the scenario, but that has its own limitations).

Gramphos · November 19, 2003, 16:15

Animations are not assosiatec with icons, but with the Civliopedia Entry...