**** you too, God. - Page 2

TCO · November 16, 2003, 08:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaleboy

Exactly how many times have you been in that situation?

It's archetypal.

Whaleboy · November 16, 2003, 08:07

Bull.

If he wants to save his friendship, he needs a degree of sensitivity, not some pseudo-machovistic idiocy that is soooo common among computer geeks who pretend to be relationship gods.

TCO · November 16, 2003, 08:09

This site rocks!!!

"The problem arises because a woman never lets a guy know which ladder he is on. Obviously there is a huge difference, or gap between these two ladders. It is in this gap that kisses of death are delivered and intellectual whores are made. All a man can do is "go for it" and make a move on a girl; ask her out, try to kiss her, write her a love note or whatever. If he's on the good ladder fine. If he is on the friends ladder this is a case of ladder jumping. The man is trying to jump the gap from the friends ladder to the real ladder. The girl has two choices at this point: she can let him on the ladder and all is well, or, more likely, she can kick him in the head, and off the ladder. If you look you'll see that below the ladder is the Abyss(what was it Nietzsche said about a man being on a rope stretched over an Abyss?....well it's worse than he thought; there is no rope.) So the man falls into the Abyss. The Abyss isn't really as bad as it sounds. Mostly it's a period of self-loathing, embarrassment, and of course utter awkwardness with the girl in question if they are talking at all."

I'm dying here. It's Nietzche's Abyss with no rope. Oh...and it's no big deal to ned up in the Abyss. At least you showed some balls.

Bugs ****ing Bunny · November 16, 2003, 08:10

Meanwhile, if he wants to get laid he'll pay attention to TCO.

TCO · November 16, 2003, 08:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Bull.

If he wants to save his friendship, he needs a degree of sensitivity, not some pseudo-machovistic idiocy that is soooo common among computer geeks who pretend to be relationship gods.

Oh chill. I believe in friendship and all that. That is all cool. He should still go for it. Hanging around like a lapdog is the wrong thing. He needs to go for the ladder jump!

TCO · November 16, 2003, 08:14

Pardon me...I'm off enjoying the ladder site.

Bosh · November 16, 2003, 08:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Good site- but I can see a lot of people convincing themselves that they are "intellectual whores" when they're really just plain unappealing.

Exactly. But the post that started his thread said that the woman in question was a good friend so I think the IW thing applies in this case.

My personal advice is just drop the thing for now and try to find someone else, she sounds a bit too unstable to be worth the effort even if things work out (which is generally very very unlikely if she already considers you a friend).

TCO: And yes the Ladder Site is a whole lot of fun.

Ted Striker · November 16, 2003, 08:25

Quote:

Originally posted by TCO

Oh chill. I believe in friendship and all that. That is all cool. He should still go for it. Hanging around like a lapdog is the wrong thing. He needs to go for the ladder jump!

No doubt Grand Master Player

I mean it's like if you are on the sub why would you want to be the guy manning the wimpy little surface cannon when you could be down below and have your hands on one of the big ass nukes!!!

TCO · November 16, 2003, 08:38

What you want to do is to be on the scope with some enemy ship in the cross-hairs and a warshot in the tube, and him not knowing jack about who's looking at him. Best case is 5000 miles from any other US ship, with the enemy doing a battlegroup exercise and destroyers running around.

Failing that, it can be almost as fun to pump a green flair up some Aegis crusiser's ass, off of Catalina.

----------------------------

And what the hell is this Grand Master Player ****? You make me laugh with that stuff. I just like to talk a little smack and have a little fun. And every know and then ask a girl out. That's it, dog. Nothing more.

Ted Striker · November 16, 2003, 09:34

joe momma

Skanky Burns · November 16, 2003, 09:42

Strangely, I agree with GP.

The relationship can't last forever as is, the tension will destroy it sooner or later. Make a move, see where things go.

SlowwHand · November 16, 2003, 10:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Lorizael
So I'm basically in love with my bestfriend. Recently I've had very powerful impulses to hold her and kiss her. Thankfully I'm a smart man. I know that for one, I have no idea if she would want that, and two, she's ****ed in the head when it comes to physical intimacy, so wouldn't be comfortable with it even if she did want it.

SNIPPED, to get rid of all the bullshit

Yah, **** you too, God.

Anybody this stupid isn't ready for a relationship.
You have too many issues of your own to deal with right now.

Bereta_Eder · November 16, 2003, 11:27

Lorizael,
IMHO... it will happen.

If you're not seeing anyone else and she doesn't either (or even if you do) it will most certaintly happen.
It takes a LOT of effort to have a guy-girl friendship that deep and not go romantic (assuming you're attracted to eachother). Of course, after it has happened, where you go from there only "God" knows.

Urban Ranger · November 16, 2003, 11:29

It should happen. It's yearning to happen.

Certainly, it would be up to Lorizael to show his best friend that not all men are dorks.

Bereta_Eder · November 16, 2003, 11:34

Or confirm that perception

(j/k)

Urban Ranger · November 16, 2003, 11:38

Stop being so mean

Bereta_Eder · November 16, 2003, 11:44

That wasn't my intention.

Good luck to Lorizael

And it is better to be sorry for trying than being sorry for not trying. (hmm doesn't translate so good but anyway it is a positive saying)

Bereta_Eder · November 16, 2003, 11:55

Oh another thing, if I may be so impertinent, it could well all be in your head and that she doesn't fancy a romantic relationship with you! but loves to have you around as a "brother". But still my abovementioned saying applies.

rah · November 16, 2003, 12:10

Go for it before, she jumps in the sack with someone else. If you think you're confused now, wait till that happens. If you think you have something to lose now, think of what's really at stake. Always take advantage of the window of opportunity, or expect regrets later.

Provost Harrison · November 16, 2003, 12:34

It's just biochemistry. I am sure that one day there will be some drug capable of overriding these neurochemical dependencies that are referred to as 'love'...

Lorizael · November 16, 2003, 12:58

Quote:

Originally posted by paiktis22
That wasn't my intention.

Good luck to Lorizael

And it is better to be sorry for trying than being sorry for not trying. (hmm doesn't translate so good but anyway it is a positive saying)

Better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all?

Elijah: Don't worry, I'm not going to follow GP's advice.

The problem here is that you guys don't fully understand the situation. There's nothing wrong with that, you all just haven't been around for the past two years.

I talked to a number of people before I actually talked to her. One of the people I talked to (he's my former bestfriend. And, actually, my bestfriend now (the one I'm in love with) is the former bestfriend of my former's bestfriend's little sister. It's all very tangled.) said that I should just kiss her out of the blue. He said I should just jump in and take my chances, much like what some of you here have said.

As part of the process of making this conversation with my bestfriend more comfortable, I told her this little story. And, as I knew she would say, she said, "Don't do that. That would freak me out."

She has a lot of emotional issues she has to deal with. Me putting the moves on her would not help the situation. Me putting the moves on her would not bring us closer to a romantic relationship; it would just **** things up. The only way that anything is ever going to happen between the two of us is if she settles all of her **** and is ready for a relationship.

And this isn't a case of the Intellectual Whore/Ladder thing. I'm not just the friend hanging on hoping desperately that she will see me. She's known that I've been attracted to her for a long time. We've talked about this before. Very early on in our friendship the only thing that really prevented us from going further with each other was the fact that I was dating someone else. Recently I broke up with that person (I made a thread about that too, which tanked rather quickly).

My statements in my original post are her words. She thinks that romance is the right thing for us, that it is the natural and logical thing for our relationship. But she just can't handle romance right now. Those are her exact words, not my interpretation of them.

Sloww: What precisely do you mean? If it's the God statement, just ignore that. That was just me being overly emotional. In fact, everyone forget that I mentioned God at all, because I'm an agnostic anyway.

Guynemer · November 16, 2003, 13:34

I was once in a very, very, very similar situation. My undergraduate years.

This girl... well, I'm not one for hyperbole in situations like this. She could--did--stop traffic. The kind of beauty that could cause governments to fall. Calling her a "10" would be selling her short.

We were the best of friends. Along with another striking beauty, the three of us were extremely tight. Each of us were involved in a serious relationship of at least two years duration. Her's was, by far, the rockiest, the most unstable. The guy was somewhat mentally unstable, the product of a horrible home environment; to put it simply, she could "do better."

My relationship, despite being the most stable, was the first to implode. (****ing *****.) My two friends were right there with me, helping me and doing all the things friends do when you've been crushed like I had.

Eventually, the super-hot friend stopped hanging around as much. One day, mired in self-doubt and pity over my inability to attract women, the merely-smoking friend told me something--the reason the super-hot friend stopped hanging around was because she thought she could easily fall for me.

Well, ****, I needed that like a kick to the head. She could fall for me, but didn't want to? What the hell was it with women, anyway? Whatever. The three of us still hung out on occasion, and I never said a word about what I had learned; I still don't know if Smoking ever told Superhot that she spilled the beans. But, I eventually became that horror of horrors...

the cuddle *****.

Watching movies, she'd sit on the couch with me, leaning against me. She'd have a sore back, and I would get her a back/neck massage--for, I **** you not, NINETY MINUTES. I helped her move into her new apartment, just me and her family, her boyfriend nowhere to be seen. Afterwards, in the apartment, I was so close to coming up to her and kissing her--but I never did. I never said a word about my attraction, and she never said a word either.

Eventually, I said, "**** it," and resolved to ask her out. Keep in mind this is now almost two years after my old girlfriend had broken things off; we had been dancing around this subject for about 20 months or so. Things between her and her boyfriend were rockier than usual, so I just called her up and asked her out. She said she had to think about it. A couple days later I got an email from her, which said that I was an amazing guy, better for her than her boyfriend, she'd probably be happier with me; but, she loved her boyfriend, and that was that. About two months later, I started dating someone else--we are now engaged.

We haven't been as close friends since then, obviously. I went to her wedding--yup, to that guy. To his credit, he seems to have turned his life around, and I really like him. She's pregnant with their first kid. And I'm engaged to the love of my life.

However, one can't help but wonder if things would have been different if I had just kissed her. If instead of bringing the issue up for an intellectual discussion and exploration, I just kissed her when I had the chance (so many times) and didn't give her time to think things through.

I guess, in retrospect, I have little to complain about. I certainly wouldn't want things any different than they are right now. And, I took a shot at the most beautiful woman I have ever known. It took me almost two years to work up the courage, and I was shot down, but dammit, I took my shot. Not too many guys can make that claim.

So, to sum up--Lorizael, you are screwed, at least as far as this girl goes. Instead of just coming out and shocking her system by planting one on her lips, you've given her time to think about it--ain't no understanding the way a woman thinks. But, as I found to my delight, there are plenty of other opportunities out there.

Drogue · November 16, 2003, 13:48

Beautiful story

Quote:

Originally posted by Guynemer
So, to sum up--Lorizael, you are screwed, at least as far as this girl goes. Instead of just coming out and shocking her system by planting one on her lips, you've given her time to think about it.

I'm not so sure. Yeh, it could be that it won't happen, but, in difference to your story, she is single. Admittedly she has issues, and probably needs time to sort things out, but there's nothing to stop you being there and helping her sort it out. It may take some time, but if she likes you, when she manages to sort her issues out, she'll realise you've been there the whole time. It could well happen, but as she said, how she is now, jumping in and kissing here would be foolhardy, since she has issues with intimacy. My advice would be to give her time, but stay close to her, and help her through. When she has come to terms with things, not only will you still be close, but she'll realise you've been there for her all the time. It may even help her to trust men again, if she sees that some do stick around and treat her well.

And if all else fails, you have this to fall back on:

Quote:

Originally posted by Guynemer
But, as I found to my delight, there are plenty of other opportunities out there.

Good luck!

TCO · November 16, 2003, 18:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Lorizael

Better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all?

Elijah: Don't worry, I'm not going to follow GP's advice.

The problem here is that you guys don't fully understand the situation. There's nothing wrong with that, you all just haven't been around for the past two years.

I talked to a number of people before I actually talked to her. One of the people I talked to (he's my former bestfriend. And, actually, my bestfriend now (the one I'm in love with) is the former bestfriend of my former's bestfriend's little sister. It's all very tangled.) said that I should just kiss her out of the blue. He said I should just jump in and take my chances, much like what some of you here have said.

As part of the process of making this conversation with my bestfriend more comfortable, I told her this little story. And, as I knew she would say, she said, "Don't do that. That would freak me out."

She has a lot of emotional issues she has to deal with. Me putting the moves on her would not help the situation. Me putting the moves on her would not bring us closer to a romantic relationship; it would just **** things up. The only way that anything is ever going to happen between the two of us is if she settles all of her **** and is ready for a relationship.

And this isn't a case of the Intellectual Whore/Ladder thing. I'm not just the friend hanging on hoping desperately that she will see me. She's known that I've been attracted to her for a long time. We've talked about this before. Very early on in our friendship the only thing that really prevented us from going further with each other was the fact that I was dating someone else. Recently I broke up with that person (I made a thread about that too, which tanked rather quickly).

My statements in my original post are her words. She thinks that romance is the right thing for us, that it is the natural and logical thing for our relationship. But she just can't handle romance right now. Those are her exact words, not my interpretation of them.

Sloww: What precisely do you mean? If it's the God statement, just ignore that. That was just me being overly emotional. In fact, everyone forget that I mentioned God at all, because I'm an agnostic anyway.

God, you are so screwed. Just leave her and date someone else. You are really wasting your time.

Whaleboy · November 16, 2003, 18:26

TCO, how about you stick to what your good at, which isn't relationship advice

TCO · November 16, 2003, 18:30

Dude, this is clear cut. Nobody respects a milquetoast.

TCO · November 16, 2003, 18:32

So what am I best at? This thread was the one that called to me. It said, post, pooooooost. And WHAM, I was unbanned and posted. Like magic.

Jaguar · November 16, 2003, 18:47

Maybe you could consider dating without physical intimacy until you feel more comfortable.

NeOmega · November 16, 2003, 19:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
Maybe you could consider dating without physical intimacy until you feel more comfortable.

Give it up, tell her you need to be alone for awhile. Go get a real girl. Then when you have a girlfriend, you'll see this current friend ain't that great after all.

At least that's how it worked out for me. Of course I was fooling myslef to think I was ok with just friendship.

Richelieu · November 16, 2003, 19:15

Thanks for the Ladder theory link, Boshko!