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Old November 17, 2003, 10:42   #1
Googlie
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2 Players wanted to join Googlie, Minute Mirage and Hercules ...........
........... in a 5-player, 2 AI SMAX game to be CMN'd by Darsnan

My suggested settings would be the 2 Alien Factions as the AI, with nervegas set to Secrets of Alpha Centauri (same level tech as the Progenitors being enabled to build subspace generators) to level the playing field.

All victory conditions, spoils off, blind research and tech stagnation (maybe the game would last longer than 100 years then), Bell Curve.

Huge map (maybe even 96 x 128?) 50-70% water, average everything else.

Transcend level.

Any takers? (and comments, MM and Herc)

G.
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Old November 17, 2003, 10:56   #2
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I would actually prefer directed research and no tech stagnation, because I think the PBEMs take a long time to play even now, in terms of real time, that is. I'm also not a very big fan of randomness and while I feel blind research might add spice to a SP game, I feel that this might make the role of luck too big in a MP game. Consider another human getting IA 20 years before you, and you see what I'm worrying about.

However, I must add that I've never actually played a blind research MP game, so I have no first-hand experience on this. Also, if everyone else wishes to play with blind research on, I'm willing to accept it. At least I have a ready excuse for losing the game, then.

Btw, I'd like to pick the University as my faction, if I may. I haven't learned to play the other factions well enough to use them in a MP game.
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Old November 17, 2003, 13:10   #3
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Re: 2 Players wanted to join Googlie, Minute Mirage and Hercules ...........
Quote:
Originally posted by Googlie
........... in a 5-player, 2 AI SMAX game to be CMN'd by Darsnan

G.
Heah Googlie,

since you already know about it, why should I tell the other players about the new little "pet" I've built for this game?


D
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Old November 17, 2003, 15:20   #4
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I am interested.

I'll take Morgan if there's no objections.

zeljkacuric@lycos.com

Regards.

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Old November 17, 2003, 15:58   #5
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I'm intrested too

I would like to be CyCon, if its still free


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Old November 17, 2003, 16:34   #6
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Re: Re: 2 Players wanted to join Googlie, Minute Mirage and Hercules ...........
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Originally posted by Darsnan
Heah Googlie,

since you already know about it, why should I tell the other players about the new little "pet" I've built for this game?

D
Actually, I'm going to save this unit for my January CGN Challenge. I've come up with a better idea for this game.....

Anyways, I've got an H2H for wgabrie and AgentSubversion that is 90% done, then a 4 Player PBEM to design which should take me thru the end of this week. I will then start work on this game here, which, because I'll be OOT for a while, will probably be done by the end of the first week of December. FYI.
If you have any preferences for this game, please post, discuss, and resolve in this thread, so that I can incorporate them properly into my playtesting.
I'll also post the premise for this game into this thread when I have more time.


D
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Old November 17, 2003, 18:03   #7
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Timing is OK by me.

So we have our five:

Googlie
Minute Mirage, as the University
Hercules
SmartFart, as Morgan
laurentius, as the Consciousness

(looks like it may be a builder/researchers game - who's going to defend us against the Progenitors?)

I guess I'll play as the Gaians, then

I'm happy enough with Directed Research, and without tech stagnation - I just think that the games are more interesting if one is able to build and use some units and facilities before they become obsolete

(My current SP games are on a 386 x 512 map, with an amended alphax.txt to give a 75% tech penalty and 800 years of playing - awesome games)


But I'll go with the majority opinion on this one

G.
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Old November 17, 2003, 18:23   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Googlie

(My current SP games are on a 386 x 512 map, with an amended alphax.txt to give a 75% tech penalty and 800 years of playing - awesome games)
In my current SP games I try for fastest possible transcendence on a huge map and the games take a few weeks to play. (Well, OK, I've only completed one so far.) The amount of micro-managing gets pretty tough there and I shudder when I think of your games... Not to mention how they would run on my PII 400.
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Old November 17, 2003, 19:33   #9
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IF nobody minds another research faction, I 'll go with the Data Angels.
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Old November 17, 2003, 20:01   #10
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Re: Re: 2 Players wanted to join Googlie, Minute Mirage and Hercules ...........
Quote:
Originally posted by Darsnan
........... the new little "pet" I've built for this game?
D
Ah, yes ... the lurking-in-the-fungus Demon Boil IoD carrying 4 native life rogue Ogre Mk III's ...........

G.
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Old November 18, 2003, 03:19   #11
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if you guys want another, i'll play
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Old November 18, 2003, 06:14   #12
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Actually...I love an idea to play with tech stagnation on.
It may be somewhat slow in beginning,but wars are much more fun when you don't have a new tech every 3-4 turns.

Blind research or not, either way is fine,but I vote for tech stagnation. Tech trade,crawlers and AA's is quite enough for speeding up a game,so TS can be a nice balancer.

My 2 cents.

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Old November 18, 2003, 09:39   #13
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It's that slow bit in the beginning: getting to MY 2150 could take some time with 5 players and it is good to maintain interest. Otoh I don't think I' ve played a game with tech stagnation before. No views on Blind research.
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Old November 18, 2003, 13:37   #14
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Game Premise
The Premise for this game will be: In the previous Progenitor Era, the Ancient Ones for some unknown reason felt compelled to build a Planetary Defense Grid to guard Planet against an interstellar invasion. To this end they built two huge citadels, one at each pole of Planet, thereby giving the Progenitors the ability to protect every area of Planet from these fortified positions.
When Guardian Hmnee and Conquerer Maar arrived in the Alpha Centauri Solar System, they each immediately headed for one of the fortresses that their ancestors had prepared, and once ensconced, broke open the ancient fortress seals and began equipping themselves with the weapons found within.
The Humans from their vantage points could only watch with horrified amazement as night after night missiles arced up from Planet's poles, piercing the stratosphere on their way to establishing near-Planet orbits. Now, many moons later, the heavens are crowded with many little dots of light zipping overhead of the human settlements: the Aliens are watching the Humans' every move, and are preparing to sally forth from their fortresses to eliminate any possibility of interference from the humans.
Fortunately for the Humans, several of the Progenitors missiles misfired, and have crashlanded near each of the Human enclaves. Although the technology governing their operation is currently undecypherable, why your scientists assure you that it will hasten their research in discovering orbital spaceflight!





Besides satelites (and note that I am not giving the Progenitors the technologies for satelites - I am simply starting the Progenitors off with several satelites - composition to be determined via playtesting), I am thinking of giving each of the Progenitors either the Supercollider, or the other "+100% Labs at this base" SP (just can't remember its name right now - Grrr!). This, combined with whatever else makes its way into the Aliens' arsenals, should give you guys some real "cause for concern". Playtesting will proof out what I feel is appropriate, and I will proceed accordingly.
Also, per the above comment about crashlanded missiles, why I am planning to downscale the prerequisite technologies for orbital spaceflight so that it will become a viable part of this game, as well. Supremacy of Planet could very well begin and end with control of the near-space surrounding Planet, because the last item I am tentatively planning on introducing is an ICBM that has a range of approximately 30 tiles. It will become available near the same time that Neve Gas and the Progenitors ability to call their respective Home Fleet.

So: I won't be getting to this game for about another week, so you have time to discuss what I have said, and reach a consensus as to what, if any, of the above I will actually incorporate into this game.

One final note: since Diplomatic Victory is currently going to be enabled, why I think it would be neat to also state that if either Progenitor is able to call their respective Home Fleet, that the game is then considered a Draw for all Humans. This then would allow a weaker Human Faction to commit the Ultimate Atrocity by betraying Humanity and somehow assisting one of the Aliens to Victory. Up to you if you want to play with this condition. I'll stop by again after I complete wgabrie's game, which should be in about a week.


D
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Old November 18, 2003, 18:22   #15
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Getting Orbital Spaceflight earlier sounds interesting, although it makes me somewhat worried about the planet busters. All in all, this sounds like an interesting set-up for the game.
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Old November 19, 2003, 00:46   #16
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Interesting 'scenario", D !!

I'd go along with a draw if the battle fleet is summoned,

I'd also advance ODP's to Spaceflight (rather than Self-Aware Machines) to allow for defence against PB's at the same time as they can be built (presumably the Prog factions have a few prebuilt in orbit??)

And it might be neat to play this one on an Earth map?

G.
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Old November 19, 2003, 07:45   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Googlie
I'd go along with a draw if the battle fleet is summoned,

I'd also advance ODP's to Spaceflight (rather than Self-Aware Machines) to allow for defence against PB's at the same time as they can be built (presumably the Prog factions have a few prebuilt in orbit??)

And it might be neat to play this one on an Earth map?

G.
I'd vote against the Earth Map, personally, as I am planning on building two Citadels, to ensure that the Aliens are not easy targets for you humans. As for the Aliens beginning with ODP's - theoretically, since the Aliens are both at war with each other, they would simpy attack each other with these. However, from playtesting my old "King of the Hill" Challenge, why the AI's will build OPD's, so I anticipate that if they get the appropriate tech, they will build them.
ODP's to Spaceflight I believe I can do - never tried this before, but the idea of making the satelites an integral part of a game (for once!) was just too much of a temptation to resist! I'll make the other satelites available sooner, assuming these attributes get imprinted upon the Scenario, and are not a local phenom.
I'll let you know in about 10 days, or Googlie, if you want, since you probably can test the idea, can you see if this attribute gets imprinted upon a Scenario/ PBEM?

D
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Old November 21, 2003, 06:20   #18
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We should probably make a decision regarding blind research and tech stagnation. I would really like to play with directed research, but as a compromise I would be willing to accept tech stagnation.
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Old November 21, 2003, 09:56   #19
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That sounds reasonable Directed research and Tech Stagnation.
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Old November 21, 2003, 18:28   #20
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Tech stagnation should help the AI somewhat, as the alien's research accumulates via facilites built, plus multipliers - longer time between human tech researches means more time for the aliens to build their facilities ..........

And, D, I believe that the prereqs in the scenario-creator's alphax.txt govern all players (so setting ODPs to Orbital Spaceflight should permeate all players) - I'll test that though (I have smac/x on both my partitioned drives, so can test one against the other)

........... (I presume that was the implied question?).............

G.
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Old November 21, 2003, 19:07   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Googlie
And, D, I believe that the prereqs in the scenario-creator's alphax.txt govern all players (so setting ODPs to Orbital Spaceflight should permeate all players) - I'll test that though (I have smac/x on both my partitioned drives, so can test one against the other)

........... (I presume that was the implied question?).............

G.
I think it does too, but if you could just verify that, it'd help out!

Also, do you think having the 30 tile ICBM nuke in this game would be a good thing, or bad? I'll probably put it into the Alphax.txt, but not enable it unless you want it.

I'll start work on the Alphax.txt file tonight, as well as the map. FYI.


D
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Old November 21, 2003, 22:28   #22
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Oh yeah, we're gonna need a name for this game. Let me know if someone has a good idea on this for when I post the Turn Tracking Thread. Currently my best is "Last Sentient Standing", which will hopefully be embodied in the game, but doesn't necessarily need to be the game's name.

Also:

Nerve Gas: Secrets of Alpha Centauri
Sky Hydroponics Labs: Doc:Air
Orbital Power Transmitters: MMI
ODP's: Advanced Spaceflight
Flechette Defense: Doc:Air
GeoSynchronous Survey Pod: Doc:Air
PlanetBusters: Superstring Theory
Conventional Payload: Superstring Theory
Submarines: Doc:Init
A/C Carriers: Doc:Air


One Note: although theoretically possible, why in Reality Submarine Aircraft Carriers are not really feasible. Therefore I propose that all players agree not to build Sub Aircraft Carriers. Does anyone view this thought differently?


D
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Old November 22, 2003, 00:56   #23
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Or maybe limit them to carrying just missiles (although I guess in RL it would be feasible to get a chopper on a sub - just not launch it while submerged)

But missile carrying subs - just like real life (or does the game currently let you put a missile on a sub? - I've never built one in a game yet so wouldn't know)

And at Darsnan's request, I'll change from the Gaians (his request) to the PeaceKeepers (my choice)

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Old November 22, 2003, 14:07   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Googlie
Or maybe limit them to carrying just missiles (although I guess in RL it would be feasible to get a chopper on a sub - just not launch it while submerged)

But missile carrying subs - just like real life (or does the game currently let you put a missile on a sub? - I've never built one in a game yet so wouldn't know)
Limiting subs to carrying missiles sounds like a great idea!



Quote:
And at Darsnan's request, I'll change from the Gaians (his request) to the PeaceKeepers (my choice)
Darsnan does his best Montgomery Burns impersonation, "E-x-c-e-l-l-e-n-t.....".

Also, Empath Guild will be disabled in this game, unless someone has a really good reason for enabling it.

I will probably start work on the map tonight. FYI.


D
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Old November 23, 2003, 14:27   #25
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I've never played SMAC with modified rules.txt before,but I assume only CMN have to make changes in it,correct?

Basically, I like this whole concept and looking forward to start playing.

One more question...do I need to patch my game before start. I used to have it patched,but got a new machine and for some strange reason my game always crushed after I installed patch 4.0

Which patch is required and where can I d/l it?

Thanx.

SF
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Old November 23, 2003, 14:38   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by SmartFart
I've never played SMAC with modified rules.txt before,but I assume only CMN have to make changes in it,correct?
You are correct in that only the Chairman can make these modifications to the game.

As far as where the patches can be found - look at Firaxis' homepage. FYI.


D
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Old November 23, 2003, 22:35   #27
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Limiting subs to carrying missiles sounds great. Hope I can get to implement concept
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Old November 24, 2003, 06:25   #28
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IIRC, s sub aircraft carrier is rather a waste of an ability. The sub, I think, will be invisible as usual (gotta be adjacent, deep radar, etc. to see it) but the aircraft are not. I may be wrong about that...been a long time since I saw anybody attempt a sub - carrier.
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Old November 24, 2003, 22:10   #29
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Bad news....
Heah Guys,

it is unfortunately becoming very apparent to me that the only part of the Alphax.txt file that is passed along with a save is the part governing units. What this means is that I cannot simply edit in all of the effects that I want for this game (such as satelites being available sooner, and moving out Nerve Gas to "Secrets of Alpha Centauri"), and have them available for all of you. After bouncing a couple of test files off of Googlie today to verify my concerns, I thought perhaps I could use the "Edit Base" function in the Scenario editor to prototype the satelites, but I found that the satelites don't show up as a Facility, and nor are they considered a unit by the game, which was very disappointing to me as therefore none of my usual workarounds are going to work on satelites (i.e. I can't trick the game into introducing satelites into the game sooner if I can't even find a handle to mod them with!?!). Anyways, its been a very frustrating and disappointing day for me regarding this....
The only other consideration I can offer is that I E-Mail each of you the Alphax.txt file I have generated for this game, and then once you reach Doc:AP, you would have to substitute my modified Alphax.txt file in for your regular file, then after your turn is over, swap the two files again, which would be a real PIA, especially if you are not that computer literate. However, this modified file would then allow you to build the satelites with the discovery of the previously discussed techs. Otherwise, I can't think of anything that can be done other than playing the game with the satelites being available with their original tech.
Regardless, because I can design a sub into the game and make it available with Doc:Init (and a Carrier available with Doc:AP), why these aspects are still intact, and as far as the Nerve Gas is concerned, why everyone can simply agree not to use this till the pre-specified tech is discovered. Up to you guys, and again, sorry that I cannot induce the effects that previously I thought that I could do for you.


D
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Old November 26, 2003, 05:12   #30
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i got no problems
i'm excited about this game,
I'm gonna break some faces
mmmmmmmm
faces
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