2194 Game 2 - Page 2

klesh · January 30, 2001, 18:05

STOP THE PRESSES!!!

Below is an excerpt form an email I just sent to Captain Nemo. He had emailed me asking a few questions, and as I answered I came upon an disturbing discovery! I begin by answering the question of why some Soviet units have no move points when the scenario kicks off...

quote:

Hi Captain,

Hmmmm.....

I'll start with the issue of the units without movement cost. If you start up 2194 and play a single player game as the Soviets, you will notice the same thing. Many of your troops (especially in the East) do not have movement points on turn 1. This has ALWAYS been the case as far as I know. I assumed you were trying to simulate the Soviets' unpreparedness at the start of the war. But again, something peculiar here too. In that same single player game you just started, if you end the Soviets turn (turn1) they immediately get to move again in January '42 (turn2)! But after you end that turn, the Japanese get to move (which is correct as the standard order goes ie: Japan first, Soviets last) and then the Soviets get to make another turn, but it is then Feb 1942!!! Aparently Soviets are the only ones able to move in January 1942. This was not the case in the first round of PBEM. You can even see in the story thread that all players moved in January 1942.
IIRC, the first time through the 2194 multiplayer, Xin told me that the Soviet didn't finish his turn (using Cntrl+N), but I tend to think now that it was actually the AI taking over for the entire new turn that the Soviet player missed, rather than just the AI moving the pieces with movement left in them (which is what will happen if the turn isn't ended properly).
I don't really know why that is. Test it for yourself. All of the units that didn't have movement in turn 1 are back to normal in this New Free Turn the Soviets get. I guess you could've made an even bigger counter attack on Xin...[why am I telling you this!?!

] This has major ramifications in the multiplayer game though.
I think we should maybe stop untill we can all talk and work these damn bugs out. But you are probably very busy with ****** ( edited so as not to reveal secret new scenario) so there is no time for a good ol' 2194 re-work. I dunno.

Boy,this has got me soooo

Captain Nemo · January 30, 2001, 23:34

I think I was loading the game the wrong way, as a regular Civ2 game, which doesn't allow me to save it in the .net format. Now, if I start by selecting "Multiplayer Game", then pick "Load a Saved MultiPlayer Game" then I can save the game as a .net file (Actually that's now the only choice).
One BIG plus for me is that it lets me move all my units in the first turn.
The "new" results are devastating for the Germans. I captured not only Saratov, Moscow and Leningrad but also Minsk, Kiev, Rostov, Sevastopol and I am only half way through my turn! I caught several stacks of Nazi planes in those cities, killing them with tanks. German casualties are staggering, about 30 planes (Including a few disbanded) and 60 other units... I think I could capture Warsaw and reach the Berlin suburbs at the end of my turn!
I just need to know if I am doing anything wrong by loading the game that way?

klesh · January 31, 2001, 00:23

I'm sorry to say that you are loading it correctly

Xin Yu · January 31, 2001, 01:00

Well, I found Saratov won't be destroyed after sending out the game. The city would give the Soviet tanks another moving point to attack Moscow and Leningrad. Too late to fix the mistake.

Fortunately, I have a second line of defense west of Moscow, which limits my lost to only Moscow and Leningrad. I have also sold the anti-tanks for the two cities, hence my tanks can easily take the cities back, or destroy them. Plus, the Soviet does not have any air defense --no AAs, only 2 fighters (from Baku and Archangelsk) so my air raid will be devastating as well. Now Stalingrad won't be so heavily defended, which makes it easier for me.

Just hope that I haven't lost too many tanks and SS stormtroopers on the other front. I'm planning to take both the English islands and the Soviet big 3. If I don't have enough assaulting troops then I have to settle for a lower target.

Captain Nemo · February 1, 2001, 03:39

Comrade Stalin reports that the Soviet people are engaged in a mighty struggle for survival. The sacrifices made have been so great that we can barely endure another month. We exhort our Allies to join the fight and open a Second Front behind the lines of the Nazi pigs to take the pressure off our struggling heroes on the East Front.
After the treacherous attack by the Nazi Army and their Japanese lackeys we were pushed back far into Siberia with tremendous losses. Our heroic Red Army regrouped and launched a counter-offensive from the Stalingrad salient exploiting a gap between 2 German Armies. We were able to capture Saratov and split the German Forces with our wedge of attacking tanks. We retook Moscow, pushed North to Leningrad and freed that town also.
Our Army group from Kharkov advanced Eastward annihilating the German defenders in Minsk. That city fell and caused some of the German aircover to disband after which the bulk of our forces in Stalingrad were able to destroy the adjacent German armies opening the direct railroad connection between Stalingrad, Moscow and Leningrad. We took the German railroad junction North of Saratov but it was destroyed in the process... Fortunately Engineers arriving by boat and rail from Archangelsk built a new junction and our tanks were able to freely move Eastward and take the German panzers from the rear annihilating the whole column and recapturing Sverdlovsk (Defended mostly by Me109s!) Our Northern forces svung South capturing Kalinin and Riga with heavy loss of German troops. Finally a massive push from Minsk allowed us to bring the war to Germany and capture Hamburg and the Peenemunde rocket complex! The high point was reached when our tanks entered the Naval Yards and destroyed the mighty battleship Tirpitz anchored there...
But this incredible effort has left our Army depleted and wounded... Let not our sacrifice be in vain! Forward Comrades! Invade! Attack!

Cities captured:
Saratov
Moscow
Minsk
Leningrad
Riga
Kalinin
Sverdlovsk
Hamburg
Railroad Junction

German losses from Soviet attack:
1 Engineer
8 Wehrmacht
3 Artillery
2 AA guns
12 SS troopers
26 Pzkw IV Panzers
5 Motorized Infantry
12 Me 109 Fighters
4 Bombers
1 Battleship
1 U-boat
5 Stukas
1 Fallschirmjaeger

Game sent to Field Marshal Klesh

Captain Nemo · February 1, 2001, 03:50

I was wondering about the 2x move option in Multiplayer... I didn't use it but someone mentionned building Railroad in one turn?
After seeing all those Pzkw IVs East of Sverdlovsk it made me wonder if others used it?
This was the most thoughtful turn I have ever played in Civ2. Kind of tells me how Xin accomplishes those great results...

Cal · February 1, 2001, 17:06

quote:

Originally posted by Xin Yu on 02-01-2001 12:03 PM
I figured it out. If the first (white) player has some units generated from events while others are playing, then the first player got the chance to move again by the end of the turn, thus the newly generated units get to move twice -- a huge advantage for the Soviet player since it can check status by the end of the current month and adjust its production and move his newly generated units to attack and retreat the second turn before anybody else can move.

It's the same way with Red Front. If any of your refugees are destroyed in Germany's first turn (which at least two usually are), you can move the partisans generated at the end, start retreating units early, and review production of all of your cities in June, a very useful bug.

Although... don't save your game during this time. If you do, when you load it back up and finally move the partisans, it'll be germany's turn to attack again!

Shaka Naldur · February 1, 2001, 17:30

Xin Yu,

are you actually able to finish the scenario in four turns???

do you have any sav file around

I read once an strategy guide about red front?
don´t you have any other one?

Xin Yu · February 1, 2001, 17:49

Shaka: I once destroyed the Soviet Union in 4 turns playing Germany in the old version of 2194 days (I think it is possible to do it in 3 turns). Of course I was playing against AI. The whole scenario cannot be finished that soon.

I don't have a saved file but I will write a strategy for the scenario pretty soon.

Captain Nemo · February 1, 2001, 21:26

Xin Yu: The double moves you are talking about did not occur in my Multiplayer game: My first attempt, loading the game as a normal Civ2 game only allowed me to move 40% of my units, probably the newly generated ones plus some that had not been moved in December... Once I loaded the game as a multiplayer net game it played completely straight. Every unit moved unless it was in the process of fortifying or improving terrain and I forgot to deselect it early on. All units, even the ones created during the German offensive, only moved once. Of course, I used the event-generated units to the greatest extent possible and optimized my order of attack to get every possible event generated unit but that was all. The above results were not achieved with any units double-moving!

BTW did you use the Multiplayer double-move option in your first turn as your post about the railroad suggests? Without it I was able to move an engineer in along railroad, turn directly unto a river-square and build the city exactly where your was closing the gap in the railroad.

Xin Yu · February 1, 2001, 21:47

Captain Nemo: Engineers work twice as fast in multiplayer setting. Which means that their moving points were not doubled but they could build roads twice as fast.

You must have played both December and January in your turn or you would not be able to get that far. You were suppose to start in January by the sequence of the game but the event-generated units gave you an extra turn. It will continue to give you extra turns until no units are generated from events.

klesh · February 2, 2001, 00:47

This is wierd. Playing as the Japanese, my engineers will upgrade a road to railroad immeadialtely after pressing "r". However,this was not so when i played as the Germans. Xin, were your German engineers able to complete railbuilding in 1 turn?

Xin Yu · February 2, 2001, 01:03

I figured it out. If the first (white) player has some units generated from events while others are playing, then the first player got the chance to move again by the end of the turn, thus the newly generated units get to move twice -- a huge advantage for the Soviet player since it can check status by the end of the current month and adjust its production and move his newly generated units to attack and retreat the second turn before anybody else can move.

If I can replay my turn I'll be able to modify my strategy and deal with it. For now let's just keep on playing to see if I can pull out of this.

klesh · February 2, 2001, 14:29

Ahhhh, it was the river that threw me off. I got it now.

Xin Yu · February 2, 2001, 20:15

I just got it. See below.
[This message has been edited by Xin Yu (edited February 02, 2001).]

Xin Yu · February 2, 2001, 20:39

OK, I got it now. My apology to Captain Nemo. He did not use any double-movement. Simply an amazing tactic.

He must have captured Moscow then used Mobile Infantry to suicide attack to get Red Guards generated in Moscow, so that he could have enough units for taking Leningrad or Minsk. Suppose he took Leningrad. He then again sed red guard for suicide attacking to generate some tanks in Leningrad to take Misk. Once the bomber near Saratov was disbanded he has enough tanks to take Riga, Kalinin, Sverdlovsk and Hamburg.

I should have pillaged the road North to Saratov and killed that engineer. Because Saratov was of size 1, I though it would be destroyed.

Who has the game now?

Captain Nemo · February 2, 2001, 23:53

You're absolutely right Xin, no double moves and no double turn. It was difficult but the suicide attacks with Mobile Infantry really does a lot of good.
Once the two bombers disband near Saratov the railroad connection is open all the way from Stalingrad to Leningrad and with the engineer rebuilding the city to close the rail-line gap you're open to attack Sverdlovsk and all the stacks of PzkwIVs nearby with any units on the railroad path.
The only problem for me was your bomber-tank combo Southwest of Moscow that I had to bypass off the railroad using a fighter to disable the ZOC and losing MPs.
Taking Minsk before having to use the RGs in Stalingrad was a key since they can't get out without losing all their MP's. I actually used tanks with 3 MPs from Moscow (Once the city is freed one of the tanks appears there)to take Minsk as early as possible, before Leningrad.
Hamburg took all I could muster and forced me to give up Rostov and Sevastopol which I had captured in my first trial game... It was a mistake because I thought I would get Rocket-Artillery (Katyushas)immediately but only got Propellants from the capture of Peenemunde so maybe Rostov-Sevastopol was a better deal (Except for the psychological effect of taking a German city

)
The Red Guards are actually too good for my own good! Too often they kill fortified Tanks or SS in cities with walls in the first attack and survive without any move points, when I would rather get killed and receive 2 light tanks by events!!! It's rare in Civ2 that you actually hope your unit will lose and get killed

Of course it would be even better if they could kill the unit and have 1/3 MP left to commit suicide with

I sent the game to FMK on Wednesday night.

[This message has been edited by Captain Nemo (edited February 02, 2001).]

Xin Yu · February 3, 2001, 01:24

FMK: yes, RR in one turn on plain/grassland only. Takes two turns on river/hills/forest. That was why I built so many temp cities to reduce the number of engineers being used.

klesh · February 4, 2001, 19:41

Please refer to my "Attention" thread. I am sorry guys.

Xin Yu · February 4, 2001, 20:16

We are only one turn into the game and Field Marshal Klesh (Japanese) has other things to take care of so he cannot continue to play. We need a person to play the Japanese. Besides, do we continue this game or we start a new one?

Captain Nemo · February 4, 2001, 23:11

I am up for either... I would rather play this out because the German-Soviet conflict has been so interesting (And I have quite a bit of time invested) but I'll do either. I don't want you, Xin, to also play the Japanese, that would just be too horrible!!
Have you heard from Marko or Dizepam? I E-mailed them strategy tips/ideas but have gotten no response?
I will start a new separate thread asking for a replacement player.

Paul Hanson · February 5, 2001, 19:24

Right, there is a problem. I received the game, moved my units and what have you, but my e-mail account is having trouble and I can`t send e-mail. Is there any other way I can get it to Xin Yu?

However, Japanese victories for this turn are:

USSR: Irkutsk and Kyvlv (sp?) destroyed
Petropavlovsk captured

Australia: Brisbane captured.

Xin Yu · February 5, 2001, 19:37

Paul: goto yahoo.com or hotmail.com and setup an account. Then you can use that account to send out files.

Captain Nemo · February 5, 2001, 21:42

Did anyone send the instructions on loading and saving the PBEM game to Paul? I had a heck of a time with it and I want to be sure you've got it right. Are we all using the latest rules.txt (Allied Advantage version). Do the events travel with the saved game or are they also loaded as the rules and graphics?
Welcome onboard Paul!

Xin Yu · February 6, 2001, 01:45

File sent to our new player, Paul Hanson.
[This message has been edited by Xin Yu (edited February 05, 2001).]

Paul Hanson · February 6, 2001, 08:14

Good question. I loaded the game using Multiplayer Game-> Internet Game-> Load Saved Game. I`m running the latest version of 2194 Days, and I think I have the Russian rules file set up. This may or may not make a difference, but if it does I still have the original save file that Xin Yu sent me, so I could change the rules.txt and play my turn again. (Would that be construed as cheating?)

Paul Hanson · February 6, 2001, 16:53

I`m setting up a Yahoo account right now. I should have the file to you in a few hours, Xin. I`ve also made sure I`m using the correct files for the game.

And that hopefully brings me up to speed.

Xin Yu · February 7, 2001, 01:22

Paul: use rules1.txt (Allied advantage) and events1.txt (German setup). The events.txt is not useful unless you deleted the events in the saved file. However it doesn't hurt to put that in the folder.

I haven't received your file yet. Have you sent it out? You can replay your turn, that is not cheating (but you should replay the entire turn, not resetting battle results for each encounter).

You need to be more aggresive in multiplayer games. Rush build units (incremental buying) in one turn and sell city improvements to get cash. Attack and occupy all cities you can reach (provided that the loss is not too big). Even if you lose the city the next turn, your enemy will lose one turn of productivity for that city.

Xin Yu · February 7, 2001, 02:59

Well, now is my turn to let Captain Nemo lose a good night sleep. I'm only half way through my turn. I finished advancing in the eastern front (where I met my Japanese ally near the former Soviet city of Omsk). I am now loading troops to pass the English channel.

Germany fighters raids Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad! Airdrop near Leningrad! SS stormed Moscow! Tanks roll in Stalingrad! Sverdlovsk liberated! Kharkov occupied! Saratov destroyed! Riga, Hamburg, Kalinin, Minsk liberated! Soviet down to 8 cities and 47 units!

Germany is now regrouping and operation sealion is about to start...

Continued: British islands is in chaos now. London and Glasgow is still in Allies hand but the rest are either destroyed or captured by our SS stormtroops.

This is really a war of attrition. My mighty army is now almost depleted. Same for the British and Soviet. We really have no strength to invade the United States in the near future. Wish our Japanese friend best luck in the battle of Los Angeles!
[This message has been edited by Xin Yu (edited February 07, 2001).]

Xin Yu · February 14, 2001, 01:18

It's been almost a week. Who has the game now?