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Old February 24, 2001, 22:56   #1
WarVoid
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Hodadian Awards - 2000
I have taken over presenting the Hodadian Awards and would like to finalise the winners for 2000 before we set about with the 2001 awards.

I need nominees for the following categories.
  • Best Scenario
  • Best Historical Scenario
  • Most Challenging Scenario
  • Most Innovative Scenario
  • Best Map
  • Most Accurate Map
  • Most Innovative Map
  • Best Modpack
  • Best Historical Modpack
  • Most Innovative Modpack
  • Best Original Sound
  • Best Website
  • Most Informative Website
  • Most User Friendly Site
  • Most Innovative Site
  • Best Webring
  • Civ'er of the Year
  • Best Scenario Designer
  • Best Map Designer
  • Best Modpack Designer
  • Best Webmaster

Now these are only applicable to Civ2 and you can nominate anyone you want and it will be considered.

I am also accepting positions for those that wish to judge nominations with me. ICQ is a must have please, so if you want to judge please download it or if you already have it you can reach me at UIN 73438757.

When nominating please take into consideration this os for 2000 only, so stuff created in 2001 will NOT be accepted.

I'm pretty sure Captain Nemo is gonna win a lot of these positions but let's try and cover more than one person and site for these awards.

So get a'goin and nominate some ppl already!
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Old February 24, 2001, 23:11   #2
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WarVoid,

A bunch of disordered thoughts:

I doubt enough people may be interested on this after so much time.

Many of those cathegories do not make much sense, especially if we abide to the rule that 1999 winners can't be nominated again.

What is according to you the difference between modpack and scenario?

Why is there a best historical scen and not a best fictional scen

What's the difference between best scen and best historical scen?

Why not a best utility award

Etc, etc...

This said, if you need help from a guy who won a couple of these awards once, just let me know

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Old February 24, 2001, 23:27   #3
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Civ'er of the Year: Techumseh.

Best Website: The Spanish Civilization II Site

Best Map Designer: Jorrit Vermeiren (Mercator). He single-handedly ended the dark ages of map making when he released MapEdit.

Though there are too many categories already, there is one glaring omission that must be added; Best Utility Program.
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Old February 24, 2001, 23:32   #4
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I nominate Imperium Romanum for best historical scenario and best scenario. And Red Front for the one it doesn't get. Oh, and Tim Smith for modpack designer, since Hi-Res was great and there haven't been all that many modpacks lately.
[This message has been edited by Giant Squid (edited February 24, 2001).]
 
Old February 24, 2001, 23:41   #5
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Jay, I agree, too many categories IMO. But reismark simply handed the job to me so I intend to do it. However, I still think you're right, so i'll reduce the categories and adjust them a bit.
  • Scenario of the Year
  • 2nd Best Scenario
  • 3rd Best Scenario
  • Mapmaker of the Year
  • Most Accurate Map
  • Modpack of the Year
  • Best Original Sound
  • Website of the Year
  • Most Informative Website
  • Most User Friendly Site
  • Most Innovative Site
  • Civ'er of the Year
  • Webmaster of the Year
  • Best Utility Program

Please nominate according to this list now. Thanks.
[This message has been edited by WarVoid (edited February 24, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by WarVoid (edited February 24, 2001).]
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Old February 24, 2001, 23:48   #6
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I'm also nominating the following people.
  • Scenario of the Year - Red Front
  • 2nd Best Scenario - Imperium Romanum
  • 3rd Best Scenario - Shaibani
  • Mapmaker of the Year - Mercator
  • Most Accurate Map - Aegean Sea
  • Modpack of the Year - Hi-Res Pack
  • Best Original Sound - Red Front
  • Website of the Year - CivGaming Network
  • Most Informative Website - CivGaming Network
  • Most User Friendly Site - CivGaming Network
  • Most Innovative Site - CivFanatics
  • Civ'er of the Year - Techumseh
  • Webmaster of the Year - Thunderfall (CivFanatics)

And i'm removing the rule of not being able to nominate a winner from last year. But please look to other sites and writers as new winners.
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Old February 24, 2001, 23:53   #7
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Ahem... Imperium Romanum is a 2001 scenario
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Old February 25, 2001, 00:42   #8
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I can't nominate people/things. Too many good things! I'd list about 10 things per category.
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Old February 25, 2001, 04:56   #9
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quote:

Ahem... Imperium Romanum is a 2001 scenario


Yes.

Best Utility: Mercator´s MapEdit

Suggestion: if you have a "Best Sound" section, you could add a "Best Graphics" section also

And what do you have to do to become Civer of the Year?
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Old February 25, 2001, 06:15   #10
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quote:

Originally posted by BeBro on 02-25-2001 03:56 AM
And what do you have to do to become Civer of the Year?

Field dumb-@$$ questions about your work from us!


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Old February 25, 2001, 07:24   #11
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quote:

What is according to you the difference between modpack and scenario?

*sigh*

For the record: A scenario contains a SCN file. It may or may not contain modification files (Cities, Rules, and the like). A modpack is made up of modification files, or other files that can be used to modify regular CivII modification files. It does NOT contain a SCN file.

Clear?

quote:

I can't nominate people/things. Too many good things! I'd list about 10 things per category.

Write 'em all down! The more things we can choose nominees from, the merrier.

quote:

And what do you have to do to become Civer of the Year?

This award goes to the individual who has made the most valuable contributions to the Civilization community over the course of the past year. These contributions do not necessarily need to be in the form of add-on development. For example, MarkG was Civer of the Year for 1999.

My own brief list of nominees:
[*]Scenario of the Year: Sword of Shannara[*]Website of the Year: Civilization Gaming Network[*]Civer of the Year: Chris Wilkinson



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[This message has been edited by reismark (edited February 25, 2001).]
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Old February 25, 2001, 11:42   #12
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quote:

A scenario contains a SCN file. It may or may not contain modification files (Cities, Rules, and the like). A modpack is made up of modification files, or other files that can be used to modify regular CivII modification files. It does NOT contain a SCN file.


All very nice and very clear, but as ZERO modpacks have recently been released, it still seems a bit a nonsense thing to me.
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Old February 25, 2001, 12:51   #13
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quote:


For the record: A scenario contains a SCN file. It may or may not contain modification files (Cities, Rules, and the like). A modpack is made up of modification files, or other files that can be used to modify regular CivII modification files. It does NOT contain a SCN file.

Clear?


Well, that is also my opinion. However, (i) this criterium was not used for the 1999 HAC awards; (ii) go tell this story to the Apolyton DB manager & administrative staff; (iii) according to your definition, Allard is definitely right. Aside from HiRes, what other modpacks have been released in the last two years?

PS. Who is Chris Wilkinson?
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Old February 25, 2001, 14:01   #14
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One final suggestion: If you are serious about this, keep it as far away from the off-topic forum as possible.
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Old February 25, 2001, 14:25   #15
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Kull makes some excellent points. A list on nominees should be put together. How is vote to be held? Who can vote? The catagories should be more clearly defined. Scenarios from 2001 have been nominated here as well as on other sites. Keeping it out of the OTs should be obvious. The more 'colorful' people there don't usally bother with the league. Maybe you could accept nominations from all, then have a 'blue ribbon panel' of designers vote on the nominations.

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Old February 25, 2001, 14:40   #16
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I agree with Kull on all of his points. Especially the list to make selections from. I can't possibly remember all the great scenarios there were last year!
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Old February 25, 2001, 17:01   #17
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We should try to direct this to the widest circles. Only because HAC is hosted by Apolyton, that doesen't mean it has to be an Apolyton-only event. Advertisements, such as a HAC-banner can be put on every website whose owner(s) are ready to support the awards. These ads link to a nomination page, or a HAC-thread or whatever. Everybody gives his nomination(s) in every category. Then, let's set a deadline -like mid-May or so- and when it is over, a jury will decide which of the nominated scenarios etc. will be the winner.
About the issue "who can vote" -Everybody who plays Civ2!
I know this would be tough work, but we could also attempt to set up a website that contains all -or at least as many as possible- scenarios that appeared in the past year (we don't even have to upload them there, a link off other sites is fine too).
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Old February 26, 2001, 01:54   #18
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This is all very nice, but the "Award Process" is seriously flawed IMHO. Let's look at some of the problems:

1) The most serious issue is the blind voting (ie. pulling names out of thin air). Shouldn't there be a list from which to make selections? Already we've seen votes for a 2001 scenario in a 2000 contest. My recommendation is to close this voting thread and start with a nominations process. Invite submittals (how many per person can be debated, but it should be at least three) and use that to develop a "top ten list" for the vote.

2) Category descriptions are also essential or else you wind up with little more than a popularity contest. And lets discuss these a bit first, since I already have a problem with the definition of "mod pack versus scenario". If you delete the .scn file, Seeds of Greatness will easily allow you to create "from scratch" games on any map. There may be others that would do the same, and that gets us back to #1. In fact, maybe the first thread should be a discussion on Definitions and Categories and only move on to nominations after that's been settled.

3) No instructions for voting are provided (Is this the only thread? Forum? Scenario people only? Secret Ballot? Public? Who can participate?) If this contest has Apolyton Blessing, you might think about posting sticky "Come submit your Nominations" threads in the appropriate forums, followed by "Come Vote" threads when it's time for that. These should be announcement only threads, and direct people to a common thread located elsewhere. I highly recommend you use one or more of the free polling services and set up polls for each of these categories. That will make the voting fast and anonymous. You can attempt to make it informed, too, by use of links which first pop up the Category description/definition and THEN the poll itself.

4) As a HAC sponsored event, the final details should ultimately be posted on the HAC Web Site. Links to those detailed descriptions could then be posted in the Discussion threads.

Edit: Typos
[This message has been edited by Kull (edited February 25, 2001).]
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Old February 26, 2001, 08:00   #19
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Scenario of the Year - Red Front
2nd Best Scenario - Riverwar
3rd Best Scenario - Mughals
In fact, there are few scenarios
that I'm sure were made in year 2000.
Mapmaker of the Year - Jorrit Vermeiren
 
Old February 26, 2001, 18:56   #20
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Kull and Stefan, this is simply for the 2000 awards. I need results quickly so we can update the website. If you want to arrange this into a more complicated Floridian process then we'll do it for the 2001 awards.

For now it's very simple. Everyone make your nominations and then I will tally them and get the results. The scenario/modpack/website/etc with the most nominations per category wins that particular category. I'm not going to stretch out results for the 2000 awards until March.

The 2001 awards however will be different and more refined.

Until then, make your nominations and tell all your friends about this. And in the meantime i'll start doing up some banners for the 2001 awards...
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Old February 26, 2001, 19:40   #21
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Just two issues I'd like clarification on.

1. You've stated quite clearly this process should exclude year 2001 creations, but is it just for year 2000 creations, or creations in the last two years which have never been nominated/awarded before, as I think I just read on the site?

2. As a follow on, how are you dating a creation? First release date or final release date? Red Front was originally released Dec 1999, and v1.4 in Feb 2000. But say for Kobayshi's STBAQ scenario, which merits a nomination, which was first released in Dec 2000 and updated end of Jan 2001 (with an additional update promised).

See the problem?
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Old February 26, 2001, 20:03   #22
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Why not simply allowing everybody willing to apply to do it? I mean, if Captain Nemo wants to apply, just let him do so, and if anyone (ie BeBro) prefers to wait for the 2001 awards, then that should be fine too...

Just my 2 cents.

Warvoid, should we make our nominations in this very thread then?
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Old February 26, 2001, 20:24   #23
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If the scenario/modpack/whatever was created in 2000 then it IS applicable. It dosen't matter if it was updated in 2001.

Stuff created between 1997-2000 is applicable to these awards. Whereas stuff created in 2001 (and beyond ) is not.

Fiera, I don't get what you're saying.... Anyhoo, yes, just post your nominations here or if you don't want to post them send em to warvoid@aol.com .
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Old February 26, 2001, 21:48   #24
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quote:

Originally posted by WarVoid on 02-26-2001 07:24 PM
Fiera, I don't get what you're saying.... Anyhoo, yes, just post your nominations here or if you don't want to post them send em to warvoid@aol.com .


It's alright, you've already answered to what I wanted to know...
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Old February 27, 2001, 01:20   #25
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"Floridian Process"?!?

This from the crew that bailed completely on their last task, ie. SDC#3?

Forgive me for casting a few doubts on HAC's willingness (or competence) to handle ANY sort of contest. If you can't answer a few simple questions than it's clear you're going to muck this one up too. Count me out.
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Old February 27, 2001, 02:35   #26
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quote:

Originally posted by WarVoid on 02-26-2001 07:24 PM
Stuff created between 1997-2000 is applicable to these awards. Whereas stuff created in 2001 (and beyond ) is not.



You sure? Then what were the previous HAC award for???

I tend to share the same or similar worries as Kull. I have withdraw my offer to help. Not a big deal cos you probably needn't it but still..


PS. People voting for their own, semi-unknown and still unfinished websites, does not add much credibility to this business. If you can repeat awardees, Apolyton should take home all the website prizes hands down,not the gaming network, which is pretty much apart from the Civ2 creation circles. Not a good symptom WarVoid, mon ami.
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Old February 27, 2001, 08:15   #27
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Kull, the botching of SDC #3 was my fault, not WarVoid's. I got hit with a lot of new IRL responsibilities all at once, and by the time I got those out of the way or delayed, a lot of my time was eaten up by the work I put into launching the Civilization Gaming Network. Naturally HAC and consequently the SDC suffered. Don't take your prejudice against HAC out on WarVoid because he wasn't involved in any way in the SDC project. Lay the blame where it is due (on me), and give the man a freaking chance to get this off the ground. OK?



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Old February 27, 2001, 12:43   #28
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Reismark: My original post fell into the category of "constructive criticism". Not only did I identify the problems (as I saw them), but also offered some suggestions for addressing them. There was no "prejudice against HAC" anywhere in that post. What I received back was a two word insult. At that point it became eminently clear that WarVoid just wants to get this over with as quickly as possible. When speed is more important than a quality product, it's simply further proof that HAC has totally lost it. That's why, for me, HAC's failure to handle SDC#3 speaks volumes.

The concept of community acclaim is truly a noble one. God knows that nobody here is making any money from our scenarios or other "good works" for the Civ2 clan. And any group that takes on the mission of assembling the votes and doling out the awards is truly "doing the right thing". Talk about thankless tasks! But if you are gonna do it, then do it RIGHT. You don't want to use a poll to automate the process? Fine! But at least define what the awards MEAN! If "Civer of the Year" can be Tecumseh OR Chris Wilkinson, then I have NO IDEA what it stands for. And saying that awards for 2000 can include efforts from as long ago as 1997 is simply ludicrous. I'd like for this to be a successful effort, truly I would. But what you have right now is little more than a poorly defined popularity contest.

HAC has a pretty serious credibility problem. If you want to improve it, then engage with the skeptics. If you take the path of insult and dismissal, then it's clear that JayBee and I won't be alone in bidding you adieu.
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Old February 27, 2001, 18:53   #29
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I'm not really upset if we don't have another HAC award contest, but I think Nemo might . Red Front is going to sweep everything.

Although my votes would go towards 2nd Front and Spartacus.
 
Old February 27, 2001, 20:41   #30
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Kull, I don't know where you got that that was an insult. The 2000 Hodadian Awards are beyond late, they have BECOME Florida...

Yes, of course I want to do this right and propoer. SDC3 was a mess and I tried to help with it but lack of communication kept me out of the circle. I like action, I believe in fast and accurate processes.

Until I can update the HAC site to reflect changes in the awards then i'm kinda screwed.

I'm taking your words a constructive criticsm and don't understand why you call that an insult.

If anyone wants to help with this then please contact me since there is no way I can do this by myself. If not then it will end up like another SDC3....

P.S. Mark, i'm designing banners for both the 2000 and 2001 awards. A typo on my part.
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