We are Americans too.

[MrFun]

I got this through an e-mail from one of my friends last night. Too often, some people assume that non-heterosexuals are antithetical to American culture, or that they cannot contribute to American culture.




You Better Watch Out

November 26, 2003
By HARVEY FIERSTEIN

According to legend, New York lore and two major Hollywood
flicks, Macy's Santa is the real deal. And tomorrow, to the
delight of millions of little children (not to mention the
Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court), the Santa in New
York's great parade will be half of a same-sex couple.

And guess who the other half will be? Me! Harvey Fierstein,
nice Jewish boy from Bensonhurst, dressed in holiday finery
portraying the one and only Mrs. Claus.

Won't America get a kick out of that? But what if Santa
really was gay? Could there be a another Mr. Claus? Would
those grinches who, as we speak, are fashioning legislation
to deny marriage to gay and lesbian Americans make an
exception for the jolly old soul? What has Santa ever done
except bring joy and gifts to all? Just the sight of his
face is enough to bring a smile to the Scroogiest of
politicians. Would his gifts of love and goodwill be
answered with exclusion and derision?

The answer, history tells us, is "of course." Consider the
Americans who have rained nothing but glory on our nation.
Think about the magnificent works of Walt Whitman, James
Baldwin and Hart Crane. They're just a handful of writers
who shaped the American vision and yet could not achieve
full citizenship because they were homosexual. How many
wedding parties have walked down the aisle to the music of
Virgil Thompson, Stephen Sondheim, Jerry Herman or Aaron
Copland? Yes, we get to provide the music, but we are not
allowed to get married ourselves. The next time you stand,
hand on your heart, and sing "America the Beautiful,"
remind yourself that we owe those towering words to
Katharine Lee Bates, a lesbian.

Remind yourself, too, of the Rev. Mychal F. Judge, the fire
department chaplain who was killed on September 11. There
was hardly a religious leader in our city who did not
glorify his name and hold him up as someone to emulate. But
remind them that he was a proud and openly gay man and
those same moralists will turn their backs in denial.

The unhappy tradition continues today. The Bush
administration spends billions spreading freedom abroad
while at home it devises legislation to deny equal rights
to gays and lesbians. What is it with you people, anyway?
Are you so insecure about the way you handle marriage that
you're scared gay folk will show you up? Trust me, we will
make as much of a mess out of matrimony as you do. Just
give us a chance.

In the end all I can say is this: If I really was Santa's
life partner, you can believe that he would ask and I would
tell about who has been naughty or nice on this issue.
Still, as we approach the holiday season I'd like to
imagine that fear and bigotry will not prevail in this
land. Maybe this holiday season we can toss out some of the
intolerance that nests in our hearts and make room for more
love and acceptance.

Of course, there will be those who say, Santa Claus lives
near Canada and isn't even an American. To them I reply,
neither is anyone who would deny a person full citizenship
because of whom he or she loves. Besides, we've been
looking at a time share on the Cape. Happy holiday and
remember to wave to me on my float. I'll be the man in the
big red dress.

Harvey Fierstein won the 2003 Tony Award for his
performance in "Hairspray."

[SlowwHand]

A Gay Santa. Just what the world needs.

[orange]

Wow. Good article. I didn't know some of that, for example, the bit about America the Beautiful.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I hate that we, as a culture, become obsessed with this secular sideshow and easily forget that this is a holiday to celebrate the birth of our Savior, the Son of God.

Now bring on the gay Jesus, dammit!

[MrFun]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
A Gay Santa. Just what the world needs.

But what's wrong with a gay Santa??



Anyway, try to look at the main point -- that non-heterosexuals are part of American culture more than many heterosexuals realize.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
A Gay Santa. Just what the world needs.

(Actually, it's a gay Mrs. Clause.)

I agree. It's about time.

[SpencerH]

I just dont get the gay-marriage-thing.

Equal rights and benefits under the law for 'spouses', no problem. It seems obvious to me, and the majority of americans seem to support it.

Why the focus on 'marriage' though? Why focus on a word? Most americans seem to oppose the concept of 'gay marriage' on religious grounds. Therefore, it's unlikely that their opinions on the matter will change. Conflicts over 'gay marriage' between the gay and straight communities detracts from the more practical issues where progress could actually be made.

[SlowwHand]

I even made you an avatar.

[Ned]

The question is whether society can give preferences to one form of "marital" status over another and not violate the equal protection clause.

[MrFun]

SlowwHand, get your mind out of the gutter -- I was talking about a family-oriented, g-rated Santa Clause.

[Stefu]

I bet you just happened to have that picture lying at the hard-drive, Sloww.

Or at least in a folder called "Hard Drive"

[MrFun]

Originally posted by SpencerH
I just dont get the gay-marriage-thing.

Equal rights and benefits under the law for 'spouses', no problem. It seems obvious to me, and the majority of americans seem to support it.

Why the focus on 'marriage' though? Why focus on a word? Most americans seem to oppose the concept of 'gay marriage' on religious grounds. Therefore, it's unlikely that their opinions on the matter will change. Conflicts over 'gay marriage' between the gay and straight communities detracts from the more practical issues where progress could actually be made.

I was hoping this thread would stay on-topic about cultural contributions made by non-heterosexuals (of any country, I guess).

But about this marriage thingy -- I disagree with gays who advocate for change in definition of marriage. I argue with them that we can accomplish equality through secular civil unions, and this way, religions won't have to fear about government meddling with their sacramental celebrations.

On the other hand -- didn't the federal government intervene declaring that prohibition of interracial marriages was unconstitutional???

[Jac de Molay]

Won't America get a kick out of that? But what if Santa really was gay? Could there be a another Mr. Claus? Would those grinches who, as we speak, are fashioning legislation to deny marriage to gay and lesbian Americans make an
exception for the jolly old soul? What has Santa ever done except bring joy and gifts to all? Just the sight of his face is enough to bring a smile to the Scroogiest of
politicians. Would his gifts of love and goodwill be
answered with exclusion and derision?

Oh boo frickin' hoo. Is it entirely possible to enjoy one day out of the year without someone or other shoving their political agenda down my throat?

Please..get over yourself.

[MrFun]

Hey Jac -- did you sit on a cactus or something??

[orange]

Think of it the opposite way, Jac. Is it entirely possible for a homosexual to enjoy one day out of the year without having someone elses culture and morals shoved down their throat?

[orange]

Originally posted by SlowwHand


I even made you an avatar.

Nice bush

[Solly]

"that non-heterosexuals are part of American culture more than many heterosexuals realize."

And it's probably also true that non-heterosexuals are part of American culture less than many non-heterosexuals realise.

[Arrian]

We are Americans too.

That's nice. Good for you.

-Arrian

[MrFun]

I guess some people are ignorant about the significance of excluding a group of people from their own country's culture even when that group has made contributions towards that country's culture.

[Jac de Molay]

Originally posted by orange
Think of it the opposite way, Jac. Is it entirely possible for a homosexual to enjoy one day out of the year without having someone elses culture and morals shoved down their throat?

Yes. It is. Everyone forms their own cultures, ,or "tribes", of supporting and nurturing friends/family which share and accept. But the world is a cruel place regardless of who you are.

I support gay marriage fully, but shameless, self-promoting stunts do nothing to help the cause, and harm it in the long run.

[MrFun]

Shameless self-promoting??

By celebrating how non-heterosexuals have helped create the culture of United States??

[Dry]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Now bring on the gay Jesus, dammit!

Not needed.
The story is already politically correct.
One straight couple on one side: Maria and Joseph;
one gay on the other: the ox and the donkey.

[SlowwHand]

Illinois is in a world of hurt.
MrFun, Sava, Ming, RAH, all in Illinois.
Can we set up a state relief fund?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Illinois is in a world of hurt.
MrFun, Sava, Ming, RAH, all in Illinois.
Can we set up a state relief fund?

Well from now on, make sure you never sing anymore patriotic songs written by non-heterosexuals if you think this is ridiculous.

[Combat Ingrid]

Santa isn't gay, he's a communist! C'mon, he dresses in red and gives stuff away for free!
Or maybe he's a gay communist
(Well, he does have a labour camp in a remote frozen place, inhabited only by male workers)

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by MrFun
By celebrating how non-heterosexuals have helped create the culture of United States??

The article doesn't show that.

[MrFun]

So you didn't read this part of the article, DD??

"The answer, history tells us, is "of course." Consider the
Americans who have rained nothing but glory on our nation.
Think about the magnificent works of Walt Whitman, James
Baldwin and Hart Crane. They're just a handful of writers
who shaped the American vision and yet could not achieve
full citizenship because they were homosexual. How many
wedding parties have walked down the aisle to the music of
Virgil Thompson, Stephen Sondheim, Jerry Herman or Aaron
Copland? Yes, we get to provide the music, but we are not
allowed to get married ourselves. The next time you stand,
hand on your heart, and sing "America the Beautiful,"
remind yourself that we owe those towering words to
Katharine Lee Bates, a lesbian."

[Whaleboy]

You ever get the feeling that Sloww is a homophobe?

[MrFun]

Actually, I never thought he was homophobic -- he just likes to bullsh*t a lot.

[orange]

Originally posted by Jac de Molay
I support gay marriage fully, but shameless, self-promoting stunts do nothing to help the cause, and harm it in the long run.

would you prefer they did it with shame?

I don't think it's a 'stunt' at all. At first I thought I'd never heard of Fierstein, but when I looked him up I realized who he is. Seems to me like they got someone who recieved several accolades for playing the role of a woman in a broadway show and had him play the role of "Mrs. Claus" in the Thanksgiving day parade.

Why, exactly, is that so awful?