Civ 4 - the list of ideas for Firaxis

[gnome]

Two big, general suggestions:

More rewards for the gamer
Especially in SP mode, but optionally in MP... give more multimedia rewards to the person playing. Animated councils, wonder movies, riot scenes, city views, newspaper headlines... any items of interest that give the player a chance to sit back for a moment and ENJOY that they just spent 80 turns trying to accomplish something. This is the biggest flaw of Civ3 over Civ2.

Make them all optional of course for the gamer that just wants to get to the next turn.

More balancers
Include more methods by which a skilled player that is falling behind can catch up to a player in a superior position. Cheaper espionage is one possibility, but in general a good player should be able to catch up from a bad starting position or a generally losing position, by playing EXTREMELY well.

[Fosse]

Gnome, both of your points are very good ones.

More rewards make a huge difference, even though they seem like the wouldn't. The first month of SMAC and Civ 2 I watched every movie. Now, I play without them 9 out of 10 games... but that 10th game does so much to revitalize the game.

And balancers are a huge deal.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Merp
I think the sooner that multiple threads or a dedicated forum for Civ 4 ideas is implemented the better. I know that the original idea was to start on a single thread, but this thread is already pretty chaotic, with a lot of repeated ideas.

EDIT- OK, I'm a tool who should have checked the rest of the forum first

we've basically made a really big forumjack.

[Bonaparte]

I have another idea...and no this hasn't been mentioned. I really like the fact that I can automate some of my workers to clean pollution, but there are two things I don't like and wish were fixed/changed....

I hate when they waist time cleaning volcanoes...it waists a turn when they land on it and one when they get off it plus all the time needed to clean it...in the meantime the rest of my civ gets all polluted. If I could build a road on the volcano I wouldn't b***h....Is there a way to put roads on volcanoes?

The second thing is that I wish workers that have been set to automatically clean pollution would go back to doing so after turns in which there wasn't polluted squares in my civilization.

[ImpossibleDream]

Couple things I'd like to see ...

1. When exploring territory, the first Civ to encounter a feature get to name it. The name appears on the map for all to see for the rest of the game. Mountain ranges, rivers, seas, etc.

2. Better city graphics, or none at all. Those shabby Civ3 in-city graphics were better left undone. How bizarre did it look to have a couple of skyscrapers, some giant Wonders, a cluster of houses, and various odds and ends make up the largest city in the world?

3. More realism! Actual numbers for population, ability to move food from city to city, public works expendatures as opposed to micro-managing workers, STACKED COMBAT, more trade and spying.

4. Take a cue from Europa Universalis, which a friend introduced me to as "Civilization for thinking people." I took offense to that -- becuase I've played a thousand Civ games over the years -- but in a way he was right. From graphics to statistics to trade to millitary matters, Civ games have been great, but they tend to gloss over a lot of the realism that is fascinating and challenging in a real-world sim.

[Bonaparte]

I am so sick and tired of having my civ start on the same stinking, little island as another civ especially when you concider that I am playing on a huge, island filled (80% water) map with only 4 other AI civs. The whole point of me using fewer civs on a huge map is so that every civ gets some room to grow before an encounter, but NO, my civ always gets a little company immediately!!!! ... so then I have to start all over and over and over again until finally I get the chance for my civ to grow before running into another civ, but I'll never know if the AI civs are getting that "room" (which I want them to) when I finally do.

Now I said this before and I'll say it again, because I am so sick and tired of having my civ start on the same stinking, little island as another civ (Hey, I repeated that to), but there should be a button that you can click when setting up the game that will (if clicked) give each civ there own starting island ... this way people like me can relax a little and can actually create a civ without being crowded and without having to go to war soon after the game starts.

I was planning on playing a new game today, but I had to restart 10 times already because of what I wrote above, so I am here writing this AGAIN!!!!

[Bonaparte]

Originally posted by Bonaparte
I hate when they waist time cleaning volcanoes...it waists a turn when they land on it and one when they get off it plus all the time needed to clean it...in the meantime the rest of my civ gets all polluted. If I could build a road on the volcano I wouldn't b***h....Is there a way to put roads on volcanoes?

While I'm at it I might as well quote myself. This was dumb to say, I must have been half asleep when I said it!

[Filippo]

Redo all the tech research system. It has been the same from Civ2 and in all CtP versions too, and I never liked it.

Why ? Too little strategy (com'on you almost always research the same), finding techs for free sucks big time because it screwes up the game, the tech research is too fast in the beginning.

I would love an engine that allows me to have a slider to use to set tech stagnation. I would put the highest :P

Currently in this game you don't have time to enjoy what you just researched because you're going to have something else very soon, or worse it will be outdated right after you built it.

Also I would make tech trade much harder. How about, you need to spend half the standard tech since points to learn it from someone else ?

[Fosse]

There doesn't seem to be an exact place for this idea yet... but I've also stuck it Diploacy if anyone wants to discuss it there.

I would like to create a new state of land owndership, occupation.

If France and England go to war, and England captures Leeds, then Leeds and all territory that the capture turns over to France, is considered English territory, occupied by France. France exploits all resources, but it is still recognized by the world as English.

If France has an MPP with the Celts, and England takes back Leeds, then the MPP isn't activated because the French are the clear aggresors. If England pushes on and attaks the English on some land that was French at the war's opening, the MPP is activated.

At the end of the war occupied territory can be put on the bargaining table. Whoever keeps it at the peace treaty official gains control. So if England is willing to give up Leeds to sign peace, it becomes a real French city.


This will make MPPs stronger and less unpredictable... so you can sign one and not worry about your pact mate waging a purely aggresive war that activates thier "protection." Perhaps England would be able to offer the occupied land to another country, on the condition that the other country can take it from France. So at the end of the war, the Romans might get Leeds if they enter an alliance with England.

[khai]

City improvment / Military

An interesting thing would be that large and strong units should be avaible to build only if a city has a certain structure build.

Like to build a catapult there should be a carpenter in a city.

To build a cannon there should be a smelter.

Things like this would in my opinion make you care more about those units.

You could also send some sabotage attacks on an enemy city to destroy such structures to gain advantage in battle.

[ThePlagueRat]

Great idea khai... Then I think those units should be more effective than those in Civ3. In combination with a CTP-like battlesystem that should be fine. A gunsmith and a smelter and a ranch or something would be neccessary to build a powerful army of five cannons behind ten musketeers with some cavalry. Just like you can gain a bit too easily in CTP without the structures. Resource demands like Civ3 could also be combined in that system... Take the best from every game!

[Kaak]

Technology

Please please please don't make it so that you have to discover all the techs of an age before moving to new techs. This is absolutely ridiculous, and whomever thought of it should be whipped and beaten. It tech path is a major part of strategy, so don't limit this.

General

Use civ2 as the base and not civ3.

[ThePlagueRat]

And the workers should dissapear, as mentioned. They are indeed very boring to move along. And it's very boring to move 100 unstacked troops from one continent to the other side. A nicer stacking system would be preferable, and a public works system... Where building some terrain improvement demanded different resouces, a certain workforce, structures built, but no silly unit.

[Kickbooti]

A few thoughts on corruption.

I like to make empires. Big empires. Nothing is more satisfying than taking cities from my foes and showing them what a civilization SHOULD look like. Corruption in the current model makes this all but impossible.

Alright, I admit, NO corruption in democracy under Civ II was idealistic. But I don't think corruption should be as bad under ever form of government in Civ III.

Here are my ideas:

Communication - It seems to me that the easier communications are between the 'powers that be' in the capitol and hinterland the less the corruption. For example, I think corruption should be reduced the more 'connected' a city is to the capital. Roads, rails, harbors, airports, even (should Civ IV see fit) telecomunications facilities make the world 'smaller' and justice 'easier.'

Judiciary - I would like to see the effectiveness of courthouse actually inreased. They help not at all after a certain number of cities or a certain distance from the palace or FP.

I think that an appropriate Small Wonder would be The Supreme Court. I think that this should either put a courthouse in every city OR increase the effectiveness of existing courthouses.

Failing these I would like to see a 'sub-wonder' called The Circuit Court. Allow a Circuit Court to be built for every 7 - 10 (number to be determined) cities and it has the effect of the capitol for corruption purposes.

I know corruption can't be eliminated. But let's face it, in a modern democracy Civ III doesn't accurately represent the real level of corruption/production. I don't think Hawaii produces only one sheild, idea, gold piece.

And that's all I have to say about that.

[JamesPk]

Originally posted by dexters
Provinces, each a unit, like a mini Civ, each with a capital, and each made up of cities, definable by the player, but it must be geographic in nature. Can't have provinces spread all over the place.

Provinces and sub-capital cities should also vary on what type of gov. you have and the population of your civ., also provinces should be able to be shared (i.e) Kurdistan is part of Iraq, Turkey, and other nations in the Middle East. I hope that is something you were talking about.

[Kickbooti]

Workers

I don't mind workers, it is nice to be able to interdict improvments. But I think that workers should be able to be formed into 'armies.' I generally cluster a number of workers together to accomplish their tasks more quickly. The 'move stack' button is nice, but still akward. Just allow us to stack workers on a semi-permanent basis and do the work multiplication automatically.

Foreign Investment

Nothing is more frustrating that not being able to trade with some resource-rich, backwater hole becuase they haven't developed ports, or roads, etc. I would like to see the option for foreign investment.

If you have good relations with a country, there should be a mechanism by which you can offer to build a harbor for them to facilitate trade.

If they are too backward to do it themselves, they would obviously lack the sophistication to run it. So your civ would manage it in as expressed by a percentage of the trade going to your civ as profit.

This would work well with the +/- cultural idea that could replace the Civ3 'absolute' cultural model. If your country is a major force in trade it will increase your cultural influence.

Perhaps you could even negotiate 'mineral rights.' If coutry A has excess iron, perhaps country B would pay for the right to trade that iron to coutnries C and F.

Trade

I would also like to see the ability to trade tangible items. It would be nice if the AI were more ameniable to trading cities. I have tried trading the industrual 'heart' of my cive to another for one of their cities to see if they would do it. Never. European histroy shows that that isn't realistic.

Also, I would like to be able to trade/sell units. Sort of like the old lend-lease program, or even the amrs sales of the modern era. I'd gladly trade two of my antiquated iron-clads to a sailing-ship civ for 20 gp per turn, or for the mineral rights on the aluminum they can't detect yet.

Dynamic Diplomacy
'If/Then' treaties would be nice.

If you have a transcontinental civ, it may be in your interest to see civ A remain strong in a partucular region, but not in their island holdings across the globe.

I would like to have treaties along the lines of "If Civ A attacks cities 1, 2 and 3 of Civ B then we go to war." Or even mutual protection pacts against certain countries rather than simply a blank check.

[khai]

Units / General

What worried me in previous Civs is the lack of ocean usage. It only worked as a natural limit for the settlers.

I would like to see that nice oil on the ocean tile. And just imagine that you build a oil rig in your port city (or some ships that carries the parts of rig and then assemble it) and you claim that oil it should not only give you this resource but also some decend bonus to production or maybe even some to the trade.

Think of the strategy possibilities of such a structure. You must defend it, becouse it could be captured.

It would make the ocean more colorful (and I don't mean the black colour of an oil spillage ).

[Bisonbison]

Unique Units for different civs

I like the idea of UUs, but not the fact that they always belong to the same civ. If I pick the romans, I don't want to have to have the best swordsman game after game after game. I say, let the way an individual game develops determine who gets what Unique Unit.

The first civ to discover a Unique Unit tech (like Iron Working) would have the option of activating that unique unit or not. If they did, then their one and only UU in the game would be Legion or what have you, and no other civ could claim it. If they decided not to take it, then the second civ to discover Iron Working would have the option and then the third Civ and so on, and Civ A could hold out for a UU further up the tech tree.

That alone would make me play with Civ characteristics on.

[ThePlagueRat]

I would rather have a Unit workshop like they had in SMAC.
Just a bit different:

Unique Item!
To make a Unique Unit you should have the structures to
create certain items for the unit, like a smith, and resources like iron, then you can make for instance a uniqe Roman Shield (while others would get a lesser Iron Armor) to put on your phalanx to make them a Legion, then add spears. If you want to make them more offensive just add another weapon if you got one. Then you would create your own version, making them even more Unique. Then you can save that config for later...

I like better the idea of a structure and resources to get the items (both within trade network), instead of just requiring a tech, in which you had to get in SMAC, e.g. from Synthmetal to Plasma armor you just needed techs.

[khai]

Resources

I think that there should be more impact placed on resources. They should not only be required for building units.

My idea is that when you have lets say 5 horses in your possesion, then you should get a +1 to movment of mounted units. It could be explained that you have the best breed in the world , and they are stronger.

The same applies to iron --> get 5 of them and you can smelt the pure iron --> +1 to defense...

Then you could play the game like in a real world, where resources matter a lot. There's been many wars for resources.

[Trifna]

Maybe this thread should be closed so that the posts go where they now belong: the more specific "The List" discussions.

[Guynemer]

Lord knows I've said this a lot, but it still needs to be said.

Civ3 did a lot of things right, lots of improvements: civ-wide economic unit support, strategic/luxury resources, golden ages, unique units, real differences between civs, culture... this is but a short list.

It left some things behind in SMAC that I rather liked (social engineering, unit workshop, planetary council), but may not have worked quite so well in a history-based game as opposed to scifi.

But there was one thing left behind in SMAC that definitely, absolutely Civ3 needed. It was what made SMAC more fun than Civ3 ever was.

Flavor. The little extras. Things that didn't make a lick of difference to actual gameplay, but made all the difference to a more enjoyable experience. Secret project movies. Quotes for new buildings and techs. Yeah, it's window dressing--but presentation is important.

Bring back the flavor to Civ4!

[Temlakos]

Originally posted by Solver
The problem with the worker model is, it becomes too slow and too tedious.

Moving each worker by hand and assigning oders is too slow. That can become boring and tedious. Also, even when automated, it takes them all a while to move and carry out their actions - which goes far to make the game run much slower. Those who have played Civ 3 with 16 or more civs in a game will know what I'm speaking of - just all the Workers are enough to make it slow.

I don't object so much to individual workers building infrastructure where you need them to, and distinctions among industrious workers, slaves, and improved worker efficiencies over time.

But in the interest of realism, we ought not to have one worker type throughout the game as the Jack of All Trades.

I propose a new type of unit that I call the Combat Engineer. He'll cost twenty shields and one population point to build. And he and only he will be allowed to build fortresses and airfields--or else he will be able to build them twice as fast as the native "civilian" worker for the civilization that builds him. That means that he'll still work twice as fast if his civ is Industrious as if it isn't. Combat engineers will also be allowed to pillage, and to build roads or even lay rail twice as fast as an ordinary worker. Load one into an army and this army will be able to build a road as it moves.

Oh, BTW--as to stacked combat: I agree that the CTP stacked-combat model is definitely to be preferred. I would implement it by allowing you to load artillery into an army and have it deliver a ranged-attack punch before the marauders wade in.

And why shouldn't you be able to unload your troops from an existing army, upgrade them, and then reload the army and move on? Do Great Military Leaders really outlive their usefulness because they can't understand new technology? I'd like to ask General George C. "Blood and Guts" Patton what he'd think of that.

Temlakos

[Temlakos]

Other ideas:

Why stop at Armies? Why not use some of those Great Military Leaders to form Fleets and Air Wings? Frankly, I never have thought that the game designers--of *any* of the Civ flavors, including CTP--really understood sea or air power. The very poor performance of the AI in the fielding of navies and air forces reflects this. So also do the capabilities--if you call them that--of sea and air units in these games.

CTP came the closest to implementing a decent air attack mechanism. This is, of course, a variation of their ranged-attack stacked-combat technique, using fighters in place of infantry and bombers in the place of artillery. (Actually, fighters in CTP or Civ are more like fighter-attack planes.) Civ III achieved its first baby step toward the proper use of aircraft with its Air Superiority, Bombing Run, and Re-base Mission orders to air units (which I assume represent air *groups*). But if you really want to simulate air combat as we understand it today, you send bombers with fighter escort and have them fight together. And you do not, as CTP did, have the ridiculous spectacle of ground troops, armed with nothing better than small arms, shooting down fighters.

Temlakos

[ThePlagueRat]

Old idea comeback:

- Hire a sexy actress to play foreign minister.

And:

- Stop making silly looking leadehead animations.
I would rather have photos of apolytoners from the picture thead here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...35#post2647235

[Maniac]

Quote:

Originally posted by Stefu However, we should at least go through The List and see what proposals could be reused. At least go through the Essential Civ3 List - many good proposals in there that went unheeded.

Originally posted by Asmodean
What do you guys think my good night reading is these days
Asmodean

Hi Asmodean, do you still have a copy of the List?

[The Big Mc]

Originally posted by ThePlagueRat
Old idea comeback:

- Hire a sexy actress to play foreign minister.

I second that motion plus can we have alternates so we can personalize the council.

[Kramsib]

Hi everyone, the Spanish Civilization Community in Apolyton has made this list of ideas for Civ IV. We want join this project with our communal contribution.

Some of us have some more ideas but we all subscribe the following list.

MAP AND TERRAIN.

1. Terraform options.
2. Channels, straits, … (We refer to those square vortex which are passable both, naval units and terrain units, like in Civilization II ).
3. Multimap (like Civilization II Test Of Time).
4. “Add” button for creating new terrain types in the editor.
5. “Add” button for creating new square improvements.
6. Place names. It would be good to have the option to put the place names in game (and obviously when editing an scenario).
7. Sailable rivers, fords, bridges, cliffs, … for localised scenarios in reduced areas.

UNITS

8. A more realistic combat system which includes hit points and supported damage.
9. Include an option in the editor to create air units in a Civilization II style.
10. Allow barbarians to take cities. Allow negotiations with barbarians to avoid an attack or pay them to attack other civ. At least, make this an editable option in the editor.

DIPLOMACY

11. More editable options for scenarios. Not only war and locked alliances, but also mutual protection pacts, embargos, … trade exchanges too.
12. New diplomatic options like asking a civ to do an action against or in favour another third.
13. The ability to edit the attitude of every civ for a scenario.
14. The ability to trade military units, not only workers.
15. It seems a good option to extend the idea of locked alliances to other treaties, like locked embargoes or locked mutual protection pacts, …

ESPIONAGE

16. More options, bribe cities, bribe units, poison water deposit, introduce nuclear artefact.
17. Use special units for subversive actions.
18. It seems to be good to combine the Civ III diplomatic system with special units to carry out the dirtiest covert operations.

GENERAL

19. More info in the advisors’ windows. The domestic or the commercial advisor could show info about the costs per city or per kind of building, which civ we are reciving money from, which civ we are sending money, …
20. Use continuous percentages instead of intervals of tens.
21. Include an indicator of the quantity of gold accumulated and the gold left to get an advance.
22. Include more leaderheads per civ, wonder movies and animations for conquest of cities, victories, civil disorders, “we love the leader days”, advisors, …

23. EVENTS.
24. Allow the editor to modify savegames / use savegames to create scenarios.
25. Bring back the Civil Wars in which a Civ were divided into several factions when its capital was taken.
25. bis When a city is far enough from the capital city and fells in civil disorder, it could proclaim its independence, thus beginning a civil war.
26. When a city flips there should be a fight among the garrisoned units and the revolted citizens. The CTP system is a good idea to get inspired.
27. The ability to bring food to other cities.

[Bonaparte]

So far I hear a lot of good ideas, but remember, in order for players to use all these ideas suggested here they'll need time...you don't want to spend a lot of time working on something only to have it become obsolite or unnecessary before it's done...Maybe the advancement through the techs should be slower and more turns should then be added.

Oh, and in case it hasn't been mentioned I'd like to see expanded and alternate tech trees...every game I play I end up researching the same techs in the same order and, frankly, that gets tiresome.

[DarkCloud]

Bump for more miscellaneous ideas!