I finally got SMAX, and...

gwillybj · December 5, 2003, 21:39

4. I didn't like it so much, but I'll keep it for testing things.

First impressions count for a lot, even if you enter the situation with a wide-open mind. I finished my initial game of SMAX. My impression is such that I think of Alpha Centauri as an Isaac Asimov story, with its science outweighing its fiction; but Alien Crossfire as something from Stan Lee, with its fiction leading. I get a very comic-bookish feeling from it.

Darsnan · December 5, 2003, 22:21

Heah gwillybj,

I play exclusively SMAX, simply because it has more "Bells and Whistles", meaning I can do more things to tweak the game to make it more interesting/ competitive/ non-vanilla. From a CMN/ Creator's perspective, why it is a better game. My $0.02

D

Marid Audran · December 6, 2003, 04:54

Quote:

Originally posted by gwillybj
4. I didn't like it so much, but I'll keep it for testing things.

First impressions count for a lot, even if you enter the situation with a wide-open mind. I finished my initial game of SMAX. My impression is such that I think of Alpha Centauri as an Isaac Asimov story, with its science outweighing its fiction; but Alien Crossfire as something from Stan Lee, with its fiction leading. I get a very comic-bookish feeling from it.

A sage reaction Gwillybj. Just curious; what exactly turned you off? I assume it's the inclusion of the Progenitors, and their origins, culture, and modus operandi whilst on Chiron, correct? Most of the new factions are a bit fatuous too. Outside of the Pirates I don't see the other human factions as very tenable society models.

However, as Darsnan said, the bells n' whistles are hard to resist. Also, the expanded modding tools are very nice, which I've put to good use. I never play a game with the Progenitors though, finding that they detract from the flow of diplomacy and human competition. So I selected the third option, which seems to approximate my feelings the most.

Method · December 6, 2003, 13:45

2. and by "tossing in the odd game of SMAC" i mean SMAX with the old factions. Never *just* old SMAC.

Mead · December 6, 2003, 18:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Darsnan
Heah gwillybj,

I play exclusively SMAX, simply because it has more "Bells and Whistles", meaning I can do more things to tweak the game to make it more interesting/ competitive/ non-vanilla. From a CMN/ Creator's perspective, why it is a better game. My $0.02

D

I'm still learning how to best play SMAX, but now prefer it over SMAC because it gives more SPs, techs, weapons, and potential opponents to chose from.

Another thing like about the copy of SMAX I bought a little while ago is that a lot of the 'bugs' that were in the SMAC copy have been fixed.

I will still mix some of the old factions in with the new ones. Does anyone know if you can have more than 7 factions playing at once?

Mead

gwillybj · December 6, 2003, 23:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Marid Audran

A sage reaction Gwillybj. Just curious; what exactly turned you off? I assume it's the inclusion of the Progenitors, and their origins, culture, and modus operandi whilst on Chiron, correct? Most of the new factions are a bit fatuous too. Outside of the Pirates I don't see the other human factions as very tenable society models.

However, as Darsnan said, the bells n' whistles are hard to resist. Also, the expanded modding tools are very nice, which I've put to good use. I never play a game with the Progenitors though, finding that they detract from the flow of diplomacy and human competition. So I selected the third option, which seems to approximate my feelings the most.

Yes, probably 85% of my feelings are caused by the factions, with no one of them being the specific cause. I just can't help but feel like I'm playing in an interactive comic book. I suspect I'm put off most by the Progenitors, for the same reason you mention.

I've been a fan of Science Fiction and Fantasy since I first learned to read almost 40 years ago. While I like a good joke or funny twist from time to time, I don't read things like the Discworld or Xanth series. I'm more into the likes of Isaac Asimov and James Alan Gardner. And I thoroughly enjoy the entire batch of TSR's Fantasy worlds, along with the magic, wizards, warriors, etc., of Mercedes Lackey and others. My personal library has around 600 volumes, so you can see I'm not overly partial to any one author. Along with all that fiction, I have a few dozen Military History volumes and almost all of Henry Kissinger's works.

The other 15% of my feelings come from the additions to alpha.txt that make alphax.txt, but maybe that's mostly because of how they are implemented by the new factions?

But that's why I selected #4: I'm not going to uninstall SMAX, but I'll likely do some heavy editing along the lines of what I already did to SMAC, and definitely "un-Alien" SMAX. None of the new technologies (and everything that comes with them) need be removed, but perhaps just moved around and intertwined better within the SMAC tree, especially to prevent the ability to completely skip techs along the way (which I haven't experienced, but heard is possible).

One thing that I found to be a BIG improvement is the sound effects. I laughed out loud the first time I heard the noises made during a battle.

CEO Aaron · December 6, 2003, 23:45

i have to say that I agree with out, although I persist in playing SMAX, since it fixes a rather lethal bug for my favorite faciton (Morgan, Golden Ages actually increase growth as posted in the documentation). I suppose that since there's been a patch fixing that for vanilla SMAC, I could go back and never return, but at this point, I've become accustomed to the new techs and SPs, some of which figure rather heavily into my strategy.

Try just fixing your factions to the original SMAC 7, and tell me if you still find the atmosphere intolerable. And I'll say this for the progenitors, they're incredibly goofy, but they're also much harder to beat on transcend than most factions.

Mr. President · December 9, 2003, 06:06

I got sick of the "Resonance" technologies and what have you. So I returned to original Alpha Centauri with lotsa modifications.

Alinestra Covelia · December 10, 2003, 12:40

I play a very heavily modified version of SMAX. Neither game is enough to satisfy me now but SMAX has the benefit of greater customizability.

Googlie · December 11, 2003, 11:10

Hmmm - I must say that I'm a big fan of SMAX, and especially with the Progenitors.

One thimng I did do, though, was to move the nervegas prereq from HEC to Retroviral Engineerig on a permanent basis (makes more sense logically anyway, to ally it with Gene Warfare) to give the Progs a chance to get to air power and missiles before they get their bases decinated. I've even moved it in recent games to Sing Mech, to correspond with their ability to build the battlefleet-summoning subspace generator

They are a tough faction to beat at Transcend level - and quite a tough faction to play as well, given their different way of accumulating energy for research

(And, as an aside, have a look at the cruiser probes that the Angels have built - and lost - in a fun game I'm playing as the Gaians. But I didn't get the HSA, and Roze has managed to steal not a few techs and subvert a base or two. Adding that line to the alphax.txt does produce results!!)

G.

Hercules · December 11, 2003, 11:21

I voted 2.

I like the additional techs and Sps bar the Cloudbase in MP (bit of a killer). But simply having a wider choice of factions offers greater variety of game play.

But I still am involved in several regular Smac faction games.

Ogie Oglethorpe · December 11, 2003, 13:17

Googs,

Do youhave any new scenarios posted either on your site or CGN for SMAX with the mods you mention? Sounds interesting. Would love to try a few out. Especially single play.

Og

Darsnan · December 11, 2003, 13:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Googlie
(And, as an aside, have a look at the cruiser probes that the Angels have built - and lost - in a fun game I'm playing as the Gaians. But I didn't get the HSA, and Roze has managed to steal not a few techs and subvert a base or two. Adding that line to the alphax.txt does produce results!!)

G.

I'm finding it ever more interesting what I can "convince" the AI to build, or to coax out of them. The trick then becomes in that how do you convince them to continue to build the desired/ "desireable for them" units thru the length of the game. In my July CGN Challenge, I introduced subs to the AI's, but they didn't continue to build them throughout the game, at least not during my playtesting. What I have done recently is to introduce a desired/ "desireable for the AI" unit, then build two AI bases of opposing Factions right near each other, and plunk down several of the desired units into the frey. The AI's then battle it out during the course of the game, and the AI's will then continue to produce these desired units to replenish those lost to their opposite number AI.
For playtesting games, I have started giving one Faction infiltration on the other AI's, then uncovering key spots of the map where I know the AI's will gravitate towards, and thus I can "see" exactly whats going on turn by turn, as well as determine how the "desired" unit is faring. Very interesting, indeed, what you can "convince" the AI to build throughout a game....

D

Sarxis · December 11, 2003, 20:33

I'll never play SMAC vs. SMAX again. There's just no point imo.
But I do prefer to play with the original factions.