Emperor games C3C: how to improve your skills - Page 4

Inverse Icarus · December 31, 2003, 04:23

i started amassing warriors for a swordsmen upgrade. when i got 7 of them, sumeria sneak attacked me, saving me the trouble of declaring war. the march begins in 1200 BC.

military great leader generated in 875 BC, during a failed assault on Ur. how many god damn enkindus do they have in there?! Leader runs back to Groningen and builds army.

Inverse Icarus · December 31, 2003, 04:34

630 BC: one of my 3 exploring galleys found some land to the north, and i've met byzantine and the hittites. they do not seem to be any more advanced than anyone on my home continent, which is odd, since my science has been at 10% for a while now while my warriors were being upgraded.

speaking of the war, it didn't go as planned. the army of swordsmen killed 3 enkindu, but then retreated. it ran to a barracks and came back fully healed. i am now marching the army and 5 swordsmen in to Ur. the Sumerians are attacking with archers, which i eat up.

Inverse Icarus · December 31, 2003, 04:48

490 BC: after 3 regroupings and 17 dead enkindus, Ur has fallen. i have to say, that is the most defense i've ever ****ing seen.

Inverse Icarus · December 31, 2003, 05:21

190 BC: the year of glory.

Sumeria has been destroyed.
I have taken control of the Oracle, and the Statue of Zeus
I have built the great library and heroic epic
I have met the Maya and Inca, and after some trades, I have entered the Mideval Era

my army won't even stop marching. a short rest, and then on to Portugal.

Inverse Icarus · December 31, 2003, 06:06

and somehow it's 5am. Lisbon just fell, and Rome just razed two cities i got earlier for peace with Portugal on what i think is an island to the east. grrr. sleep now.

Enriquillo · December 31, 2003, 08:59

Morning all (almost 2pm, but ok).

Quote:

A question for Enriquillo if you’re reading this – you moved from Despotism into Monarchy and stayed there for quite some time. What’s your rationale there – is it simply the war weariness in republic you wanted to avoid? For me, monarchy and republic are so close together that I never see the value in monarchy.

I'm very keen on republic, but since I figured I would be at war for quite some time I decided on monarchy, also a bit more fitting for the dutch

I had around 90 SM's so Republic would not give me any advantage over monarchy.
Recently I made a switch from republic to democracy and was actually worse off, so I'm beginning to feel democracy is losing it's appeal, unless you're reasonably sure of not having to fight too many wars.
Even in this particular game with the dutch my switch to democracy was great for a while until I declared war on the Byzantines, within a few turns warweariness set in and caused all sorts of trouble, bleeding liberals

I'm starting to feel a one time switch is the way to go with non religious civs, those 8 turn anarchies cannot be compensated by any benefit another gov will give you.
Ofcourse there are exceptions, but this is what I believe to true in most cases. Communism is the most attractive option in late game imo, democracy just limits your warmongering ability too much, especially on sea maps where wars always take longer.

I just compared your 920ad to my 1000ad, you under republic me under monarchy. My army was larger and I had much more territory. You had the techlead. So there you have it, you want to play relatively peaceful, go with Republic, the extra production is very valuable.
If on the other hand you're at the brink of a 2000year war, go with monarchy and later switch to communism.

Inverse Icarus · December 31, 2003, 15:02

i've run into the problem of having a huge military and nearly no navy. whoops!

EnduringBlue · December 31, 2003, 21:45

I'm at 725 BC, in the previous turns I seized Ur, then Sumer, with 7xSwd, 5xArc. Winning was quite painful...Stephen Hawking couldn't theorize how many Enkidus were in there. I obtained Pyramids and Mausoleum.

Also obtained tech parity as I taunted then with peace before smiting them (while declaring war outside of their borders and without sneak attacking them as they so richly deserved...).

I managed to build the Great Lighthouse on my own. ToZ I am trying to finish fast enough, hopefully nobody will get it first. I would like to locate the Mayans soon if they're not too huge, as I know they have Temple of Artemis.

Right now I'm REXing into the former Sumerian empire, and massing troops along the bottleneck with Portugal. They already have troops and settlers waiting at the border, and I expect I'll see their first boats right around when I start building my first galleys in a couple turns.

This is a good map! I still haven't done anything with the forests-and-snow western side of the continent, though. palace is going to move soon to compensate, i'm predicting.

Aqualung71 · January 1, 2004, 08:16

Can’t say I disagree with you there Enriquillo. Which really demonstrates the Catch-22 of Civ3. Being non-religious really locks you into only one government change. A second change in the industrial era will penalize you drastically. And once you’ve made your change (be it Monarchy, Communism or Republic), you may be forced into a certain play-style.

Having said that, I find that prolonged warring in Republic is certainly possible as long as you trade for (or capture) sufficient luxuries, have your markets built and all your temples/cathedrals and even coliseums and give the luxury slider a bit of a nudge. I for one will never move into Communism – I’ll always seek out those extra luxuries under Republic to keep my people quiet. But I don’t see the value in moving from Republic into Democracy when non-religious. I’ve never seen enough of a corruption reduction to make it worthwhile, though I haven’t yet experimented with the change in unit support costs to see whether that might make it more effective.

Aqualung71 · January 1, 2004, 08:24

Update: 109AD. Just finished JS Bach and Shakespeare. 4 turns to go on Smiths. Traded the useless Music Theory to about 3 other Civ’s for gold + gpt the turn before I finished Shakespeare.

Finally got around to looking for that Saltpeter and as expected, none on the continent. Sent my Caravel a-searching, and found some on a small island, luckily just East of my continent. Currently inside a Hittite town’s borders, so guess who’s next on the agenda for my weary AC and new Knights!

Physics in 1 turn, at least 2 techs ahead of everyone else, but my GA doesn’t have much longer to go!
Back to the game.

Enriquillo · January 1, 2004, 14:28

1860ad, made the switch to facism to see how that would go compared to communism, I must say I'm impressed.

You get all the benefits of communism without the corruption in your core cities.
The lost populationpoints aren't really a problem, it just sets you back a few turns that's all.

I can now warmonger as much as I like

Thinking of starting a new game as the AI's cheating in battle is becoming hilarious. Cavalry beating my fortified MI and stuff like that

I figure it's a sign the AI is losing, when it must resort to such measures.

Enriquillo · January 1, 2004, 19:40

1908ad, we have a military alliance with Inca against the Byzantines.
We've captured one of their heartland cities and are flying in MI every turn, also a regiment of them is marching towards the capital. This will surely bring them to their knees.

I've build a new palace on my northern island, where the Romans used to be. Utrecht has the FP and most other original corecities are producing MI so a few more corruption doesn't hurt them at all. The capital change did set me back about a 100gpt at first but my new northern cities are now beginning to be profitable.
Also I really want to develop this bit because this is where the Byzantines only oil was, I cannot let them take it back.
They are so screwed and don't even know it

Best part so far was capturing a Byz city and catching 13 bombers in the process, that must have hurt. I haven't seen a single bomber since... it's hard to fly those babies without oil isn't it?

Aqualung71 · January 1, 2004, 21:21

Can someone please look at the attached save and tell me why I can't switch from my nearly completed Bank in he Hague to a Palace pre-build? I can do it in Utrecht and every other city I've checked, but not in The Hague. But once I've finished my Bank, I can then build a Palace.

Weird? Or is there some game rule in effect here I don't know about?

Truman_Capote · January 1, 2004, 21:39

Have you disbanded a unit for shields in The Hague?

That might do it, but I don't know whether palaces have the same restriction on shields from disbanded units.

Edit: Beat you to it vmxa1

vmxa1 · January 1, 2004, 21:39

Thriller is most likely do to tainted shields. This means doing things like chopping trees, disband units during any build and then trying to switch to a wonder or palace. Not allowed.

Aqualung71 · January 1, 2004, 21:56

vmxa1......ah yes of course....I'm in the RR phase and chopped down a forest to mine and railroad, as RR'ing a forest square does nothing.

Do you ever sleep, or is it morning where you are (like me)? You always seem to be lurking to give your opinion or much needed advice! Thanks.

Aqualung71 · January 1, 2004, 22:34

1400AD:

Made sure I secured US by dumping a bunch of foreign workers into my Shakespeare, built factory and coal plant, so now have a super-city pre-sanitation ready to build Hoovers, which is being set-up via a pre-build. This new Shakespeare is pretty powerful, especially as it also happens to keep all those extra citizens happy!

Also got ToE progressing steadily. 1 turn away from Atomic Theory, no-one else has progressed past Steam Power/Medicine yet. The Hittites somehow got Nationalism, so I'm getting ready to trade Industrialisation and Electricity for it plus a bunch of gpt that will assist my push towards Electronics....although I'm in 2 minds since Replaceable Parts is within reach which sort of makes Nationalism a waste of time if you get rubber.

On the diplomatic front, the arrogant Byzantines declared war because I refused to give them Industrialisation for free (like, as if!)....so they're now dropping a brave cavalry unit on my coast every few turns to help improve my military's experience levels. Go figure!

After reviewing the map I've decided the Byzantines aren't worth pursuing for now. Instead I'm building up my Galleons and Cavalry for a two-pronged cavalry assault on the Inca's, hopefully before they get too many Riflemen, to secure their sources of spices and incenses, which seem to be pretty rare on this map.

Aqualung71 · January 2, 2004, 02:07

1600AD:

Time for a lunch break. Have secured those 2 colonies on the Inca mainland. Inca's agreed to peace after about 3 turns, so they knew they had no chance. They were throwing their Cavalry against my Infantry fortified behind walls!! Then my spies told me they only had 13 Cavalry in their entire empire anyway. After I gave them peace, they wandered into my territory again and declared war when I told them to leave. Oh well, here we go again. Airports are now in place, so my biggest decision now is whether to send over Cavalry to take over their continent, or wait until the Tanks start rolling off the production lines.

Nearest Civs are 6 techs behind - Byzantine and the very generous Hittites who while they remain furious with em, are still happy to give me 170gpt every now and then just to stay 6 techs behind. Of course, I'm running the risk of them taking the techs then declaring war, but it's not such a big deal at this point. I need the extra gpt to keep my research rate up, as my increasing military is starting to hurt me in terms of unit cost. Starting to seriously consider a move to Democracy.

Can anyone recall offhand what the exact unit costs are in Republic vc Democracy?

Workers have been standing around drinking coffee and smoking ever since they completed the rail network. I haven't bothered with Sanitation (for the first time I can ever recall, since I usually space my cities a lot further apart!), so there's no need to re-irrigate the mines to get the pop growing again.

Wonder building is all done for now of course - I got them all in Industrial. Next flurry will be at the start of Modern, but by that time the Spapceship will be just around the corner. Cruising now, and there's nothing the AI can do about it!

Cheers!

Cerbykins · January 2, 2004, 02:50

Republic, 2gpt per extra unit:

Town = 1 free unit
City = 3 free units
Metro = 4 free units

Democracy, 1gpt per unit. No free support.

Time to switch is when on average, you're paying a fair bit over 1gpt per unit

(no need to remember much else)

vmxa1 · January 2, 2004, 03:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Thriller
Do you ever sleep, or is it morning where you are (like me)? You always seem to be lurking to give your opinion or much needed advice! Thanks.

I tend to go to the board after I get up. Then at lunch and then dinner. Maybe once during the evening and befoe I hit it for the night. I have all day, while she who must be obeyed is at work.

Aqualung71 · January 2, 2004, 04:33

So you're in an Asian time-zone like me? I take it you don't work, or work from home?

Aqualung71 · January 2, 2004, 04:35

Cerby, thanks....I know I've seen that somewhere on the boards before, but I couldn't find it with a search.

The switch to Democracy will probably be moot in this game, since the SpaceRace victory isn't that far away.

Aqualung71 · January 2, 2004, 06:00

1720AD:

After the Inca's declared war on me a 3rd time for not wanting to leave my territory when asked, I decided to teach them a lesson they would never forget. Have now pretty much taken over their entire continent with my 2 tank armies and a bunch of tank and infantry support. They never knew what hit them.

Just got Fission and have scored 3 nice little Uranium deposits. Started some pre-builds for the UN and Manhattan Project, so am switching to them now. Will now go for Computers and secure SETI for the trifecta of science wonders, then push towards the spaceship parts. Can't be bothered invading the Byzantines now - they and the Hittites are still 6 techs behind and will remain so.

Enriquillo, you reported that Byzantine had around 87K culture in the mid-1800’s. This amazes me. By comparison, by 1720AD I have captured every wonder since the middle-ages and am only sitting at around 50K culture! Byantines are second at 43K.

On to victory!

Aqualung71 · January 2, 2004, 12:15

1886AD: GAME OVER

SpaceRace victory. Hittites and Byzantines hadn't even made the modern era. Never built a single MI or MA. They just sat back and watched and didn't even declare war on me - amazing. Also interesting how that culture piles on in the last 100 turns - I ended up with about 97,000, almost a culture victory.

Going to bed now - some thoughts tomorrow maybe.

Cheers!

vmxa1 · January 2, 2004, 14:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Thriller
So you're in an Asian time-zone like me? I take it you don't work, or work from home?

See the flag and the city/state? California Pacific time zone.
Lost my job after 14 years in 2001 and took a few ears off. I may go back to work, not sure.

vmxa1 · January 2, 2004, 14:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Thriller
1886AD: GAME OVER

Also interesting how that culture piles on in the last 100 turns - I ended up with about 97,000, almost a culture victory.

Cheers!

Congrats, BTW 100k must also be twice the next civ. So if any has over 50k.......

Enriquillo · January 2, 2004, 14:27

About to start where I left off last nite, damn job is so distracting sometimes

All my co-workers were either sick or had a day off and one them had reset all AS/400 passwords to password, or so she had informed everyone by e-mail. I guess she must have mistyped password, cause I had 4 messages waiting for me when I came in at 9am and about 20 phonecalls before 10

I feel better now, had to get that off my chest!

Anyway, back to the topic.
You asked about the Byz culture, yeah they were way ahead of me which amazed me as well as I had gotten most wonders, but the long stay in monarchy must have hurt me more then I realized.
Byz were also bombing the hell out of me, until that unfortunate day when their entire airforce got caught and they had no oil to build a new one, CHECK MATE BIATCH

They're now at over 100k but still no culture victory for them, do they need that 20k city as well? I thought it was just one of the two but I guess you need both. Better grab their capital before it hits 20k though, that would totally suck if they won culturally, so cheap.
They have no chance at all of even surviving the next 20 rounds or so, not without oil, which they ain't gonna get due to the trade embargo against them.
Luxuries is where this game is won and lost and I feel my move to deny them oil was brilliant. Lucky as well, them not having oil on their big continent but oh well.

Aqualung71 · January 2, 2004, 20:42

As vmsa1 correctly points out, the 100,000 culture vitory only works if you're at least twice your nearest rival, so if anyone else is over 50,000 you don't get it. In my case, Byzantines were about 70,000 IIRC, and my best city was still only 10,000, so a culture victory was out.

But surely you will be pretty close to the spacerace victory without having to go to the trouble of getting rid of the Byzantines from the planet?

Cerbykins · January 3, 2004, 03:38

Actually, I'm not sure that culture rule still holds. I think the needing double in C3C has now been abandoned outright, and IN PLACE a higher total is now needed on the big maps.

Either that, or the Victory conditions screen a little misleading in the way it suggests 'Get x culture to win'

Enriquillo · January 3, 2004, 07:45

Quote:

But surely you will be pretty close to the spacerace victory without having to go to the trouble of getting rid of the Byzantines from the planet?

yeah , but where's the fun in that.

I'm not too good at this simcity style play, because I don't like it and I don't have the patience for it.
It's now 1968 and since I got fairly bored I decided to build up some tactical nukes and send 'em to Inca borders.
Just after preperations were finished Inca declared war

No explanations needed, just watch the screenie: