Thread Tools
Old December 11, 2003, 16:56   #31
lord of the mark
Deity
 
lord of the mark's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,160
Quote:
Originally posted by PLATO


It is quite possible that the communist in Iraq could end up with more than just a token role in government. The party is obviously pretty highly organized there.
They certainly have a role to play. Especially if the IGC and CPA rush too far too fast in the direction of privatization.
__________________
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
lord of the mark is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 16:57   #32
atawa
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization II Democracy GameCivilization II Succession Games
King
 
atawa's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow.
Posts: 2,751
Re: Re: Re: Re: Thousands take to Iraqi streets to protest "terrorism"
Quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Since more Iraqis are being killed right now that Americans, that is actually a possibility. Just cuz Hussein isn't in power doesn't mean he still doesn't have many in the grip of terror.
Then why wasn't the protest in the south this big?

These people hate sadam more then the Americans but off course they would never walk in an US sponsered demonstration.

Even people who live under foreign occupation have a sense of national pride.
atawa is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 16:59   #33
atawa
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization II Democracy GameCivilization II Succession Games
King
 
atawa's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow.
Posts: 2,751
Quote:
Originally posted by PLATO


It is quite possible that the communist in Iraq could end up with more than just a token role in government. The party is obviously pretty highly organized there.
Would be funny if they won the first free election
atawa is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 17:05   #34
chequita guevara
ACDG The Human HiveDiplomacyApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
chequita guevara's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Fort LOLderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Posts: 9,091
United States installs communist government in Iraq.
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
chequita guevara is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 17:28   #35
lord of the mark
Deity
 
lord of the mark's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,160
Quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
United States installs communist government in Iraq.
IF they respect democracy, and dont allow terror, then it works for me. Doubt they could pull it off without a coalition with bourgeois forces though.
__________________
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
lord of the mark is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 17:33   #36
PLATO
Apolyton Storywriters' GuildGalCiv Apolyton EmpireCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamCivilization III Democracy GameCiv4 SP Democracy GameThe Courts of Candle'BreC4BtSDG Rabbits of CaerbannogC4DG The HordeC4WDG éirich tuireannC3CDG Blood Oath Horde
Emperor
 
PLATO's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The Occupied South
Posts: 4,729
Quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
United States installs communist government in Iraq.
Installs?

You know, even a communist can get elected in some countrys



Quote:
Would be funny if they won the first free election
No problem if the elections are free and fair.
__________________
Favorite Staff Quotes:
People are screeming for consistency, but it ain't gonna happen from me. -rah
God... I have to agree with Asher ;) -Ming - Asher gets it :b: -Ming
Troll on dope is like a moose on the loose - Grandpa Troll
PLATO is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 18:51   #37
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
Interestingly, the Ayatollahs can put 100,000 k people in the street at the drop of a hat..so 10,000 people is, well, OK but nothing special.

Interestingly some of the same people who ignored demonstrations of 100K aganist the war in some places point to a demonstration of 10K as proof of thier position...very interesting.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 19:34   #38
Ned
King
 
Ned's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
GePap, you got it backwards. Some of the same people who pointed with glee at the Shi'te demostrations are ignoring pro-democracy, anti-terrorist demonstrations.

As to the demonstrations, I find it interesting that the people of Iraq know that the Ba'athist party is a NAZI party.
__________________
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
Ned is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 19:40   #39
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
Quote:
Originally posted by Ned
GePap, you got it backwards. Some of the same people who pointed with glee at the Shi'te demostrations are ignoring pro-democracy, anti-terrorist demonstrations.

As to the demonstrations, I find it interesting that the people of Iraq know that the Ba'athist party is a NAZI party.
The comparison is wrong- what matters is the SIZE of a demonstration, which is a proof either of the general feelings, or which parties have the power to put people on the street. A protest of 100k is ALWAYS more important than one of 10K, unless you start doind proportional accoutning of populations.

That the Shi'as can pull 100K puls in a day or less while this anti-terrorism one gets only up to 10K shows us who is organized, who is not.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 19:45   #40
Kuciwalker
Deity
 
Kuciwalker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
Quote:
Thousands take to Iraqi streets to protest "terrorism"
Quote:
More than 200 protesters from the Iraqi National Congress and other political parties, women's groups and sheikhs in traditional dress gathered near the National Theatre in Baghdad and marched to a central Baghdad hotel.
Is it just me...
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
Kuciwalker is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 19:51   #41
chequita guevara
ACDG The Human HiveDiplomacyApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
chequita guevara's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Fort LOLderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Posts: 9,091
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
chequita guevara is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 19:54   #42
PLATO
Apolyton Storywriters' GuildGalCiv Apolyton EmpireCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamCivilization III Democracy GameCiv4 SP Democracy GameThe Courts of Candle'BreC4BtSDG Rabbits of CaerbannogC4DG The HordeC4WDG éirich tuireannC3CDG Blood Oath Horde
Emperor
 
PLATO's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The Occupied South
Posts: 4,729
Quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Interestingly, the Ayatollahs can put 100,000 k people in the street at the drop of a hat..so 10,000 people is, well, OK but nothing special.

Interestingly some of the same people who ignored demonstrations of 100K aganist the war in some places point to a demonstration of 10K as proof of thier position...very interesting.
The demonstrations that you are refering to took place by people who were in generally unaffected countries. The demonstration in Iraq was by people who are directly affected by what is happening. That is why some people use it as a justification for a position. 100,000 in Germany? I mean...who really cares? 10,000 in Iraq means something.
__________________
Favorite Staff Quotes:
People are screeming for consistency, but it ain't gonna happen from me. -rah
God... I have to agree with Asher ;) -Ming - Asher gets it :b: -Ming
Troll on dope is like a moose on the loose - Grandpa Troll
PLATO is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 19:58   #43
chequita guevara
ACDG The Human HiveDiplomacyApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
chequita guevara's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Fort LOLderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Posts: 9,091
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

Last edited by chequita guevara; December 11, 2003 at 20:06.
chequita guevara is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 20:03   #44
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
First of all, there were 200K plus in the UK, an "affected country", yet those demostrations were ignored-so i don't buy the first bit.

Second, yes, 10K in Iraq means something-20 people in Iraq mean something-1 person means something. Saying it "means something" is, well, a meaningless statement.

The question is, does a protest by 10K MAX show any deep level of pol;itical support towards what is being portested about by a significant portion of the population? Not in a city of 5 million. So its nice to see these 10K, but this is in no way a significant event, or aportent of anything, nor a show of any group's political muscle.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old December 11, 2003, 20:31   #45
PLATO
Apolyton Storywriters' GuildGalCiv Apolyton EmpireCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamCivilization III Democracy GameCiv4 SP Democracy GameThe Courts of Candle'BreC4BtSDG Rabbits of CaerbannogC4DG The HordeC4WDG éirich tuireannC3CDG Blood Oath Horde
Emperor
 
PLATO's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The Occupied South
Posts: 4,729
Quote:
Originally posted by GePap
First of all, there were 200K plus in the UK, an "affected country", yet those demostrations were ignored-so i don't buy the first bit.
Yes...I hear the street fighting and the bombings were just terrible.

Quote:
Second, yes, 10K in Iraq means something-20 people in Iraq mean something-1 person means something. Saying it "means something" is, well, a meaningless statement.
Nice twist, but the fact remains. 10,000 people took to the streets, risking their lives, to support taking their country back from terrorist. That seems pretty strong to me in a city of any size.


Quote:
The question is, does a protest by 10K MAX show any deep level of pol;itical support towards what is being portested about by a significant portion of the population? Not in a city of 5 million. So its nice to see these 10K, but this is in no way a significant event, or aportent of anything, nor a show of any group's political muscle.
How can you say this is not a significant event? Are you really that blind to what is happening in that country? I can't believe that naive position from you. Surely you are just trolling.

The group that is showing its political strength is the people...remember them?
__________________
Favorite Staff Quotes:
People are screeming for consistency, but it ain't gonna happen from me. -rah
God... I have to agree with Asher ;) -Ming - Asher gets it :b: -Ming
Troll on dope is like a moose on the loose - Grandpa Troll
PLATO is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 11:19   #46
lord of the mark
Deity
 
lord of the mark's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,160
Quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Interestingly, the Ayatollahs can put 100,000 k people in the street at the drop of a hat..so 10,000 people is, well, OK but nothing special.

The demos in favor of the ayatollahs were NOT pro-terrorism, pro-Baathist, or pro-insurgency, so im not sure i see the point of the contrast.

Also the demos for the ayatollahs in the shrine cities had elements of a religious outpouring and were not strictly political, so im not sure we're comparing apples and apples.
__________________
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
lord of the mark is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 11:24   #47
lord of the mark
Deity
 
lord of the mark's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,160
Quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Interestingly some of the same people who ignored demonstrations of 100K aganist the war in some places point to a demonstration of 10K as proof of thier position...very interesting.
who ignored them? Was their widespread opposition to the war in the UK -well yes. Was a large portion of that intensely motivated and well organized - yes. So what? Thats a datum towards an analysis of UK politics, not toward the question of the current political situation in Iraq.

A rally by IRAQIS, in IRAQ, for a political purpose (not religious) by people who for years couldnt whisper against the regime without taking their lives in their hands, who are STILL threatened with death for supporting the coalition, is important. Not as important as it would have been if 100,000 Iraqis had shown up, instead of 5-10,000, but still important.

Particularly interesting to me was that 200 reportedly protested in Ramadi, deep in the "Sunni triangle" where some think the coalition has zero support.
__________________
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
lord of the mark is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 11:30   #48
lord of the mark
Deity
 
lord of the mark's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,160
Quote:
Originally posted by GePap
The question is, does a protest by 10K MAX show any deep level of pol;itical support towards what is being portested about by a significant portion of the population? Not in a city of 5 million. So its nice to see these 10K, but this is in no way a significant event, or aportent of anything, nor a show of any group's political muscle.
this is not a nation where people are used to political protests. Theyve just emerged from decades of totalitarian dictatorship - and there are still active attempts to kill people who support the coalition.

Is this a great portent of anything - no not by itself, and I dont think i or anyone else said it was. Its one datum, to be taken in context of other data, INCLUDING poll results, reports from coalition soldiers of good relations with many Iraqis, reports from coalition officials of growing cooperation from Iraqis even in the Sunni triangle, reports from bloggers, reports from mainstream media, etc.
__________________
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
lord of the mark is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 11:34   #49
lord of the mark
Deity
 
lord of the mark's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,160
Quote:
Originally posted by skywalker
Quote:
Thousands take to Iraqi streets to protest "terrorism"
Quote:
More than 200 protesters from the Iraqi National Congress and other political parties, women's groups and sheikhs in traditional dress gathered near the National Theatre in Baghdad and marched to a central Baghdad hotel.
Is it just me...
Its AFP.
__________________
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
lord of the mark is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 12:00   #50
GhengisFarb™
lifer
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG Glory of WarCivilization II Democracy GameCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Deity
 
GhengisFarb™'s Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
Quote:
Originally posted by JCG
Too bad that the terrorists probably won't care though..they never do.
Tomorrow's headline:

"Thousands of terrorists take to the Iraqi streets to protest Protestors."
GhengisFarb™ is offline  
Old December 12, 2003, 13:46   #51
lord of the mark
Deity
 
lord of the mark's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:21
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,160
Centcom says the following

"Although the CPA estimated participation at 15,000 to 20,000 people, Iraqi police and media sources cited numbers ranging from 100,000 to 1 million. The demonstrations, organized by the Iraqi Reconstruction and Development Council, took place in every major Iraqi city except Tikrit and Mosul, officials said.

In Baghdad, the scene of the largest demonstration, an estimated 5,000 Iraqis carried banners and chanted slogans opposing violence by Saddam Hussein loyalists and other insurgents. A CPA spokesman said the demonstration was initially planned to take place over a one-mile area, but that it extended an additional half-mile as the crowd swelled beyond expectations."

Of course i dont believe the 100k plus figure, given less then 10k in Baghdad - and from the pics it sure didnt look like many more. I AM CURIOUS about the demonstrations elsewhere, though.
__________________
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
lord of the mark is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:21.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team