Thread Tools
Old December 15, 2003, 14:58   #61
RedFred
ACDG3 Gaians
King
 
RedFred's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,447
Here is something to think about: Chretien spent most of his time as PM out golfing. So does he wake up this morning and start putting in an honest day's work?
RedFred is offline  
Old December 15, 2003, 15:00   #62
Richelieu
Apolyton Storywriters' Guild
King
 
Richelieu's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Everybody writes a book too many.
Posts: 1,259
Quote:
Originally posted by RedFred
...I forgot about the bilingual part. So that shrinks the talent pool to say, 750,000.
My future is getting brighter by the minute.
__________________
What?
Richelieu is offline  
Old December 15, 2003, 15:09   #63
Richelieu
Apolyton Storywriters' Guild
King
 
Richelieu's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Everybody writes a book too many.
Posts: 1,259
I heard that Paul Martin was born in Ontario. It makes sense if you consider that his dad was also a prominent Liberal and spent most of his time in Ottawa.
Would that make him the first Franco PM?
__________________
What?
Richelieu is offline  
Old December 15, 2003, 15:37   #64
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
Quote:
Originally posted by Richelieu


My future is getting brighter by the minute.
Mine too.
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old December 15, 2003, 16:34   #65
cinch
Warlord
 
Local Time: 07:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 131
Quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse


AFAIK even the PM is not required to be an MP.
Good to know.

Waitaminnit... No, it isn't. Frig.
__________________
"I wrote a song about dental floss but did anyone's teeth get cleaner?" -Frank Zappa
"A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue, but moderation in principle is always a vice."- Thomas Paine
"I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours." -Bob Dylan
cinch is offline  
Old December 15, 2003, 16:38   #66
Richelieu
Apolyton Storywriters' Guild
King
 
Richelieu's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Everybody writes a book too many.
Posts: 1,259
Quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Mine too.
Not for you Kitty! You defected!

BTW, do you feel brain-drained yet?
__________________
What?
Richelieu is offline  
Old December 15, 2003, 17:02   #67
Sprayber
Apolyton Storywriters' Guild
Emperor
 
Sprayber's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: In Exile
Posts: 4,140
Quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai
Whenever an American president bites the bullet, the unelected vice-president takes over.
The VP is elected right along with the President and must have exactly the same qualifications. In a way you are electing two presidents. It used to be that the person with the second highest electoral votes got the VP slot but thats been changed for a long time. If you want to look for a time when America had a tottally unelected President, your man would be Gerald Ford. Nixon ran with Spiro Agnew on the presidential ticket, but Agnew resigned as VP and Nixon appointed Ford. Then Ford took over as President after Nixon's resigning. The only election Ford ever stood for is that of his Congressional seat. Ford was a Congressman at the time..
__________________
Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul Tigh
Sprayber is offline  
Old December 15, 2003, 19:27   #68
JimmyCracksCorn
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 14:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland
Posts: 48
Ok, I do understand how parliamentary democracy works.

All I was saying was that I don't like it, and that I wish it was a little more democratic. Other than that, its fine. Just one man's opinion...

Sava: I think this is beyond right wing and left wing, its more about fundamental government structure issues.

But you're right, the right wing in Canada does whine alot... probably because they don't have their way here. Opposite of the US, hence why the left complains so much there....
JimmyCracksCorn is offline  
Old December 15, 2003, 19:39   #69
notyoueither
Civilization III MultiplayerCivilization III PBEMInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamApolytoners Hall of FameCiv4 InterSite DG: Apolyton TeamPolyCast TeamPtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
notyoueither's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: of naught
Posts: 21,300
Quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Actually I take that back. You are an asshat NYE.

Quote:
I just read what you said about the Maple Leafs. You bastard! Well suck it up baby, points in 12 straight games and heading to the top of the Eastern Conference.

It's gonna be this year...
This bit brings a song to mind...

He came from somewhere back in her long ago
The sentimental fool don't see
Tryin' hard to recreate
What had yet to be created once in her life
She musters a smile
For his nostalgic tale
Never coming near what he wanted to say
Only to realized
It never really was
She had a place in his life
He never made her think twice
As she rises to her apology
Anybody else would surely know
He's watching her go
But what a fool believes he sees
No wise man has the power to reason away
What seems to be
Is always better than nothing
And nothing at all keeps sending him ...
Somewhere back in her long ago
Where he can still believe
There's a place in her life
Someday, somewhere, she will return
She had a place in his life
He never made her think twice
As she rises to her apology
Anybody else would surely know
He's watching her go
But what a fool believes he sees
No wise man has the power to reason away
What seems to be
Is always better than nothing
There's nothing at all
But what a fool believes he sees ...


Just imagine Stanley as 'her'. I think it should be the theme song for Leafs fans.
__________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.
notyoueither is offline  
Old December 15, 2003, 20:51   #70
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
Quote:
Originally posted by Richelieu


Not for you Kitty! You defected!

BTW, do you feel brain-drained yet?

I'm coandming bvadck; don'tr worry about it.

I couldn't imaignbe raising kids int this shithole.
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old December 16, 2003, 15:20   #71
RedFred
ACDG3 Gaians
King
 
RedFred's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,447
Looks like you have already picked up American spelling skills.
RedFred is offline  
Old December 16, 2003, 15:41   #72
GhengisFarb™
lifer
Civilization III Democracy GamePtWDG Glory of WarCivilization II Democracy GameCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamCiv4 SP Democracy Game
Deity
 
GhengisFarb™'s Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 11,289
Quote:
Originally posted by Seeker
the future of Canadian politics:

We are reduced to voting for a right wing or left wing candidate of the Liberal party, or 'wasting' our votes.

Demolition Man paraphrase: "In the future, all parties are the Liberal party"
You got that right! As long as there's an open border the US it going to keep huntin and herdin our useless liberals into Canada. Its not they're good for anything.
GhengisFarb™ is offline  
Old December 16, 2003, 15:56   #73
Agathon
Mac
Emperor
 
Agathon's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wal supports the CPA
Posts: 3,948
Quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither




This bit brings a song to mind...

He came from somewhere back in her long ago
The sentimental fool don't see
Tryin' hard to recreate
What had yet to be created once in her life
She musters a smile
For his nostalgic tale
Never coming near what he wanted to say
Only to realized
It never really was
She had a place in his life
He never made her think twice
As she rises to her apology
Anybody else would surely know
He's watching her go
But what a fool believes he sees
No wise man has the power to reason away
What seems to be
Is always better than nothing
And nothing at all keeps sending him ...
Somewhere back in her long ago
Where he can still believe
There's a place in her life
Someday, somewhere, she will return
She had a place in his life
He never made her think twice
As she rises to her apology
Anybody else would surely know
He's watching her go
But what a fool believes he sees
No wise man has the power to reason away
What seems to be
Is always better than nothing
There's nothing at all
But what a fool believes he sees ...


Just imagine Stanley as 'her'. I think it should be the theme song for Leafs fans.
__________________
Only feebs vote.
Agathon is offline  
Old December 16, 2003, 16:08   #74
JimmyCracksCorn
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 14:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse I couldn't imaignbe raising kids int this shithole.
Where in the US are you? It can't be that bad...
JimmyCracksCorn is offline  
Old December 16, 2003, 22:14   #75
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
Quote:
Originally posted by GhengisFarb

You got that right! As long as there's an open border the US it going to keep huntin and herdin our useless liberals into Canada. Its not they're good for anything.
Liberal and liberal are two different things.

The old Conservatives were so close to the Liberals as to be indistinguishable on most issues.
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old December 16, 2003, 22:19   #76
notyoueither
Civilization III MultiplayerCivilization III PBEMInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamApolytoners Hall of FameCiv4 InterSite DG: Apolyton TeamPolyCast TeamPtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
notyoueither's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: of naught
Posts: 21,300
Only to a raving left wing loon.
__________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.
notyoueither is offline  
Old December 16, 2003, 22:29   #77
St Leo
Scenario League / Civ2-CreationApolytoners Hall of Fame
 
St Leo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In search of pants
Posts: 5,085
Quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
The VP is elected right along with the President and must have exactly the same qualifications.
Everyone who actually thought that Paul Martin would not end up as Chretien's successor during the last federal elections, please lift your hands.
__________________
Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com
St Leo is offline  
Old December 17, 2003, 05:58   #78
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
Quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
Only to a raving left wing loon.
Only a Tory could say that.

Quote:
Everyone who actually thought that Paul Martin would not end up as Chretien's successor during the last federal elections, please lift your hands.
What about Sheila?
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old December 17, 2003, 06:33   #79
cinch
Warlord
 
Local Time: 07:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 131
Quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Quote:
Everyone who actually thought that Paul Martin would not end up as Chretien's successor during the last federal elections, please lift your hands.
What about Sheila?
Good one!
__________________
"I wrote a song about dental floss but did anyone's teeth get cleaner?" -Frank Zappa
"A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue, but moderation in principle is always a vice."- Thomas Paine
"I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours." -Bob Dylan
cinch is offline  
Old December 17, 2003, 06:57   #80
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
I know.
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old December 17, 2003, 08:35   #81
East Street Trader
Prince
 
East Street Trader's Avatar
 
Local Time: 14:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 814
Elections involve a temperary suspension to some of the processes of government. Too frequent elections - which occur in some countries - create problems. And if you had your wish and could directly elect each PM there might have to be more frequent elections. Because as soon as the elected PM lost his or her ability to command a majority in parliament he would necessarily have to resign and that would trigger the need for an election. No doubt Paiktis can tell us if I am wrong but I rather think Greece went through a period of repeated change of government and numerous electionms not too long ago.

As matters stand no new election is required in Canada unless there is no party which can command (whether by sheer numbers or by wheeling and dealing) a working majority.

I rather share your disenchantment. But on a more fundamental level. I have lost my faith that my vote allows me to control the politicians which that vote puts into power.

And looking at the various alternative models for democratic systems I do not see a system which seems to carry that ability with it.

I am not altogether sure exactly what has eroded my faith. The party system is certainly one major element. And the curious symbiosis between governments and the media is another - although I could not say precisely why or how.

A fundamental change taking place to the way law works also plays its part - along with pretty well total disenchantment with the legislative process (which I see close up in my daily work).

Anyway the upshot is that I have started to think that democracy has shot its bolt. If we hope to control those in power we need something different.

What that different thing is to be I don't know. But it must be something, I rather think, which requires individual citizens to be much more involved than just to fill in a ballot paper or punch out a chad once every four or five years.

With the availability of modern communications - the net in particular - it may be that some arrangement involving frequent referenda could evolve.

The total failure of the democratic processes to limit the ability of Bush and Blair to indulge themselves over Iraq, however, makes me a bit gloomy as to whether enough time is left in which the evolution necessary could hope to take place.

I hope I am wrong in that.
East Street Trader is offline  
Old December 17, 2003, 08:38   #82
Agathon
Mac
Emperor
 
Agathon's Avatar
 
Local Time: 23:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wal supports the CPA
Posts: 3,948
Quote:
Originally posted by East Street Trader

Anyway the upshot is that I have started to think that democracy has shot its bolt. If we hope to control those in power we need something different.
We have it, it's called "hanging".
__________________
Only feebs vote.
Agathon is offline  
Old December 17, 2003, 22:59   #83
notyoueither
Civilization III MultiplayerCivilization III PBEMInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamApolytoners Hall of FameCiv4 InterSite DG: Apolyton TeamPolyCast TeamPtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
notyoueither's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: of naught
Posts: 21,300
Quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Only a Tory could say that.
Red Tory to you, bub. Of course, the further from the forest you get, the fewer trees can be discerned. Hence, raving leftie loons might be forgiven for not spotting them.
__________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.
notyoueither is offline  
Old December 17, 2003, 23:53   #84
JimmyCracksCorn
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 14:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: St. John's, Newfoundland
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally posted by East Street Trader

As matters stand no new election is required in Canada unless there is no party which can command (whether by sheer numbers or by wheeling and dealing) a working majority.

I hope I am wrong in that.
Says who?
JimmyCracksCorn is offline  
Old December 18, 2003, 05:22   #85
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
That's true, with one exception: there must be a dissolution of Parliament at least once every five years...
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old December 18, 2003, 06:02   #86
Uncle Sparky
NationStates
King
 
Uncle Sparky's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1,166
Quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse


AFAIK even the PM is not required to be an MP.
Correct.

When a PM resigns (or dies in office) and the person who is elected to lead the majority party is not a sitting MP, he or she is still PM. The last time this happened was with Brian Mulroney. He was elected PC party leader on June 11, 1983; after a by-election in Central Nova (a safe PC seat), Mulroney entered the Canadian House of Commons in Ottawa on August 28, 1983.

Mulroney went on to cozy up to Reagan and currently lives in the USA, sitting on the Boards of several multinationals that exploit Canada through trade laws passed under his regime. He should have his citizenship revoked.
__________________
There's nothing wrong with the dream, my friend, the problem lies with the dreamer.

Last edited by Uncle Sparky; December 18, 2003 at 06:11.
Uncle Sparky is offline  
Old December 18, 2003, 12:53   #87
optimus2861
Chieftain
 
Local Time: 10:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 58
^ But Mulroney wasn't PM at the time; the PCs didn't come to power until 1984.
__________________
"If you doubt that an infinite number of monkeys at an infinite number of typewriters would eventually produce the combined works of Shakespeare, consider: it only took 30 billion monkeys and no typewriters." - Unknown
optimus2861 is offline  
Old December 18, 2003, 13:13   #88
TheStinger
Civilization III Democracy Game
King
 
TheStinger's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: International crime fighting playboy
Posts: 1,063
Re: Re: Democracy at work in Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse


You're a dumbass.

The Prime Minister is simply the head of the majority party in the House of Commons. All of his power derives directly from the support of his caucus (the composition of which is directly determined by us in 301 ridings across the country at least once every 5 years).

If you want undemocratic then you should talk to Britain where:

a) The same thing can happen
and
b) The monarch has intervened in selecting the formation of minority governments in living memory
a is true

b is complete bollocks
__________________
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)
TheStinger is offline  
Old December 19, 2003, 13:38   #89
KrazyHorse
Deity
 
KrazyHorse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
As I recall there's been a case in the last fifty years where the sovereign asked the second largest party to form a minority government first (before giving the largest party the opportunity to do so).

Maybe it was a bit longer than that, though (70 years). Not sure right now.
__________________
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
In Memoriam Adam Smith: a brilliant man, taken too soon
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
KrazyHorse is offline  
Old December 19, 2003, 21:50   #90
*End Is Forever*
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
*End Is Forever*'s Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:31
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,631
It's not true to say that the monarch has "intervened" but in 1974 it was certainly true that the Queen was placed in a slightly awkward position.

Ted Heath's Conservatives had a slightly higher share of the vote than Labour under Wilson, but due to the vagaries of FPTP had emerged with a handful of seats less; however, neither party possessed an overall majority. As I understand it, the Queen did invite Heath to form a new administration on the condition that he secured support from the Liberals (which would have given him the required majority). He was unable to do so, and Wilson formed a minority administration. He then went to the polls again later in the year and secured a wafter-thin majority.

However, knowing your political background KH I assume you're trying to infer that the monarch would actively interfere; I can assure you that is utter nonsense.
__________________
Visit the Vote UK Discussion Forum!
*End Is Forever* is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:31.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team