Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 13, 2003, 16:27   #1
DrSpike
Civilization IV: MultiplayerApolyton University
Deity
 
DrSpike's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Enthusiastic member of Apolyton
Posts: 30,342
More on Agriculture
The advantages of the agricultural trait are well documented:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...3&pagenumber=2

Most of the opinions expressed in that thread, including my own, were provisional given the lack of experience with this new trait. Having played 10-15 start to AD now I see nothing to change my opinion that agricultural is the new industrious.

One factor that has contributed to this, that I don't believe was discussed in the thread, is the key role that 1 extra food plays in eanbling the creation of 4 turn settler factories. Essentially with one extra food than normal in the capital you only need two more to contribute to the surplus to hit the magic five. Circumstances in which this can occur are commonplace.......for example an irrigated cow on grassland.

In contrast for a non-agricultural civ you need a very nice start to pull off the 4 turn factory. In many cases the 'mere' 1 extra food for an agricultural civ turns a nice start into a killer one, even without rivers*. 5 surplus food is just so much better than 4.

*This of course should be interpreted as not needing 2 rivers. 1 river is sufficient.

Last edited by DrSpike; December 13, 2003 at 20:14.
DrSpike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13, 2003, 19:16   #2
Fried-Psitalon
Civilization IV: MultiplayerInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamPtWDG Gathering StormGalCiv Apolyton EmpireCivilization III MultiplayerCivilization III PBEMApolyton UniversityC4DG Sarantium
Official Civilization IV Strategy Guide Co-Author
 
Fried-Psitalon's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Not just another pretty face.
Posts: 1,516
Erm, begging your pardon, but you don't get that extra food unless you DO start with rivers.

That's the nature of agricultural - it can score big, or you can end up playing a game, effectively with one trait.

(Of course, you AI-playing folk probably just restart until you get that river.... )
__________________
Friedrich Psitalon
Admin, Civ4Players Ladder
Consultant, Firaxis Games
Fried-Psitalon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13, 2003, 19:57   #3
DrSpike
Civilization IV: MultiplayerApolyton University
Deity
 
DrSpike's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Enthusiastic member of Apolyton
Posts: 30,342
Re: More on Agriculture
Thanks. Actually that's freaky..........someone posted to tell me the day I got Conquests that after the capital, only cities on rivers got the bonus. I firmly believed this, since all games with agricultural civs (at least 4 or 5) have been on rivers, and I have not restarted once.

Still, the rest is still true, and new I think, but I guess I'll remove the 'even without rivers' part.

Also, the agricultural trait is not, I think, a bad one even without rivers............one certainly would not be playing the game with one trait if the start position had no rivers.

Last edited by DrSpike; December 13, 2003 at 20:10.
DrSpike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13, 2003, 20:20   #4
pauli
Prince
 
Local Time: 10:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: herndon, va, usa
Posts: 436
can't be worse than playing as a seafaring civ on pangea...
__________________
it's just my opinion. can you dig it?
pauli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13, 2003, 20:47   #5
Jeem
Warlord
 
Local Time: 14:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
Posts: 159
Yep, only with rivers does the +1 bonus count.

Just as well. Agricultural is incredibly powerful and would be broken if all cities got the food bonus.

On a side note, I've been looking for the civ that might actually do something culturally at Emperor level. By my reckoning, the Celts are the way to go. Check out my latest save game to see how you can quickly put the others on the back foot through culture and growth alone. Whether it will last is another question, but it's a very good start.
Attached Files:
File Type: sav brennus of the celts, 390 bc.sav (186.4 KB, 4 views)
Jeem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14, 2003, 01:47   #6
Sarxis
Rise of Nations MultiplayerAlpha Centauri PBEMCivilization III MultiplayerCivilization III PBEMCTP2 Source Code ProjectCall to Power II MultiplayerCall to Power MultiplayerCivilization IV: MultiplayerCivilization IV CreatorsGalCiv Apolyton Empire
Emperor
 
Sarxis's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 3,361
Yeah, that's nice Jeem.
Sarxis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14, 2003, 01:48   #7
CyberChrist
Warlord
 
Local Time: 15:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Denmark
Posts: 108
All cities DO get food bonus!

However, since I assume you are talking about the impact of the trait pre-newgovernment you are right that only cities located next to rivers or lakes will feel the effect - as this overwrites the food production penalty otherwise dealt by a Despotic government.
CyberChrist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14, 2003, 06:58   #8
DrSpike
Civilization IV: MultiplayerApolyton University
Deity
 
DrSpike's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Enthusiastic member of Apolyton
Posts: 30,342
Just to clarify all, of course I am talking about despotism in discussing setting up the 4 turn settler factory.
DrSpike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14, 2003, 09:37   #9
Fried-Psitalon
Civilization IV: MultiplayerInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamPtWDG Gathering StormGalCiv Apolyton EmpireCivilization III MultiplayerCivilization III PBEMApolyton UniversityC4DG Sarantium
Official Civilization IV Strategy Guide Co-Author
 
Fried-Psitalon's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Not just another pretty face.
Posts: 1,516
Re: Re: More on Agriculture
Quote:
Originally posted by DrSpike
Also, the agricultural trait is not, I think, a bad one even without rivers............one certainly would not be playing the game with one trait if the start position had no rivers.
Exactly what good is the trait sans river? You can't irrigate desert without fresh water, either. Simply having cheaper aquaducts and some improvements in the industrial era doesn't make for much of a trait.
__________________
Friedrich Psitalon
Admin, Civ4Players Ladder
Consultant, Firaxis Games
Fried-Psitalon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14, 2003, 10:03   #10
DrSpike
Civilization IV: MultiplayerApolyton University
Deity
 
DrSpike's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Enthusiastic member of Apolyton
Posts: 30,342
Well all cities get the boost later upon govt switch. And desert tiles can often be utilised later when you have found a way to bring fresh water to your empire. Also cheaper aqueducts are nice as you say.

Obviously the trait is best with rivers, but it's certainly not worthless without them.
DrSpike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14, 2003, 11:37   #11
Dominae
BtS Tri-LeaguePtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering StormApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Dominae's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,017
Re: Re: Re: More on Agriculture
Quote:
Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon
Exactly what good is the trait sans river? You can't irrigate desert without fresh water, either. Simply having cheaper aquaducts and some improvements in the industrial era doesn't make for much of a trait.
I would play Agr. if it only gave a bonus after a government switch; you can still do some interesting things with Monarchy and fast growth in all our cities. I do admit, however, that as such it would be a pretty boring trait.


Dominae
__________________
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
Dominae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15, 2003, 00:55   #12
CyberChrist
Warlord
 
Local Time: 15:32
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Denmark
Posts: 108
You keep mentioning rivers, settling right next to a fresh water lake will work just as well though.
CyberChrist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15, 2003, 05:44   #13
MrWhereItsAt
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameCivilization II Democracy GamePtWDG RoleplayAlpha Centauri PBEMSpanish CiversCall to Power Democracy GameCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontPtWDG2 Latin LoversACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG3 GaiansC3CDG The Lost BoysCivilization III Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton Team
Deity
 
MrWhereItsAt's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:32
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: That's DR WhereItsAt...
Posts: 10,157
Fresh water lakes will do fine, sure, but they seem to be a bit more rare than rivers.
__________________
Consul.

Back to the ROOTS of addiction. My first missed poll!
MrWhereItsAt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:32.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team