Spain and Poland can join the United States for all I care

Ecthy · December 15, 2003, 07:00

But the cowards won't.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3317055.stm

Discuss now about the pros and cons of wanting all benefits of a free market without ceding responsibility to the demographically stronger. And about how democratic a system is where 40=80.

Gangerolf · December 15, 2003, 07:04

Germany can sink into the ocean for all I care.

aaglo · December 15, 2003, 07:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Ecthelion
And about how democratic a system is where 40=80.

That's not democracy, that's just bad math.

Unless you are trying to imply, that democracy = bad math

alva · December 15, 2003, 07:09

I'm sure Putin won't mind taking Poland back...

Gangerolf · December 15, 2003, 07:11

The problem is nobody (in this case: Spain) will trade in a good deal for a worse one. And 40 mill Poles are worth just as much as 40 mill Spaniards.
If you want to blame someone blame those who gave them unfavourable voting rights in the first place.

Nubclear · December 15, 2003, 07:15

France and Germany, while dispising the US, seem to be acting more and more like it

Spiffor · December 15, 2003, 07:49

You mean, like when a 80 million country feels it should weigh more in negociation than a 40 mil. country?

What next, will you advocate that Luxembourg and its luxurious 400,000 population has the same weight as Germany and its 80 mil?

Nubclear · December 15, 2003, 07:52

Yes.

Spiffor · December 15, 2003, 07:54

Wow, I'm sure the Luxemburgers will feel honored that you consider each of them of having the worth of 200 Germans.

WTG democracy

Nubclear · December 15, 2003, 07:58

Say, for some fluke of logic, China were to join. I'm sure you and your nation would change your mind in a hurry.

Harovan · December 15, 2003, 07:58

We will see what Poland and Spain will have to say about their absolute equality, when it comes to the subject of monetary contributions next time.

aaglo · December 15, 2003, 07:59

Well just wait for france and germany to fix their economies... then they can start giving orders to others...

Spiffor · December 15, 2003, 08:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Say, for some fluke of logic, China were to join. I'm sure you and your nation would change your mind in a hurry.

My nation, most probably, because it is led by an opportunistic *******. But I wouldn't.

The point is void, however, because I'm for the outright abolition of the Council of Ministers, and favourable to concentrate the actual power in the European Parliament.

Nubclear · December 15, 2003, 08:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor
But I wouldn't.

alva · December 15, 2003, 08:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
We will see what Poland and Spain will have to say about their absolute equality, when it comes to the subject of monetary contributions next time.

You mean Poland will actually make a contribution?? Wow, I'm impressed, ach, wait a minute; I don't think sending women across Europe counts.

Spiffor · December 15, 2003, 08:08

I'm a strong believer of the "one man one vote" doctrine.

That's why I'm opposed to the Council of Ministers (the institution over which the quibble is held), because it basically considers that a whole country agrees with what the bureaucrat in the negociation room says.

Harovan · December 15, 2003, 08:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Say, for some fluke of logic, China were to join. I'm sure you and your nation would change your mind in a hurry.

This is purely hypothetical, since the whole point of unifying Europe is to create a counterweight to existing and emerging powers like China. So who would let them in?

Nubclear · December 15, 2003, 08:12

"Fluke of logic" as in "It's never going to happen however I am using this as an extreme example to make a point"

Harovan · December 15, 2003, 08:21

Quote:

Germany can sink into the ocean for all I care.

This will be a great day for the Austrian navy.

Quote:

You mean Poland will actually make a contribution?? Wow, I'm impressed, ach, wait a minute; I don't think sending women across Europe counts.

Let everyone contribute in the currency that fits him.

Quote:

"Fluke of logic" as in "It's never going to happen however I am using this as an extreme example to make a point"

Granted, but that would be a bit of extreme indeed, since China has more than twice the population as Europe has together.

Nubclear · December 15, 2003, 08:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Granted, but that would be a bit of extreme indeed, since China has more than twice the population as Europe has together.

What did i just say?

Sandman · December 15, 2003, 08:38

If China joined the EU, they should get most of the votes. It's that simple.

Nubclear · December 15, 2003, 08:39

Are you people mad?!
Or just trolling me?

Q Classic · December 15, 2003, 08:42

you know, the poles should split themselves again between germany and russia.

that way, they get the perks of being ze germans.

Rogan Josh · December 15, 2003, 08:51

I don't see what's wrong with the current system. It requires 50% of the countries (thus making sure that the small guys like luxemburg don't get shafted) and 60% of the population (meaning that most of the big countries have to agree).

CerberusIV · December 15, 2003, 08:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Sandman
If China joined the EU, they should get most of the votes. It's that simple.

We should invite both China and the Russian Federation to join immediately. Then economic policy can be decided in Beijing, military policy in Moscow, Chirac and Schoeder can be appointed EU agriculture inspectors in Mongolia and the USA can be quarantined from the rest of the planet until the americans are prepared to behave like good europeans.

Serb · December 15, 2003, 08:55

It's a great plan.

The Viceroy · December 15, 2003, 09:00

I can see why the UK's mostly keeping out of this fight.

With populations decreasing in France and Germany, and increasing in the UK, its in our interest to keep population as a lever to power.

However, its nice also to have a european counter weight to France and Germany, and up to now, Spain and Poland and the UK seem to be doing that.

Personally though, this is silly politics, and power should be given at population levels .. as long as this is updated all the time. The real question is how much power should the EU have as a whole ??

Space05us · December 15, 2003, 09:06

If Spain and Poland have something to contribute to the overall bettering of the EU then they should get the same number of votes as the bigger guys. Just like how Alaska should get more votes than Texas because we have more oil.

Harovan · December 15, 2003, 09:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Q Cubed
you know, the poles should split themselves again between germany and russia.

that way, they get the perks of being ze germans.

Good idea that. I heard recently, that Poland hides WoMDs. I found evidence in form of chemical and biological residue in my Polish christmas goose.

We immediately should send two million inspectors.

With tanks.

Sandman · December 15, 2003, 09:32

Quote:

With populations decreasing in France and Germany, and increasing in the UK, its in our interest to keep population as a lever to power.

France has the highest birth rate of any EU member. Their population is growing.