Return of the King - Page 15

Agathon · December 23, 2003, 17:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrian
The guys on boats were the Corsairs of Umbar. Kinda barbaric, yeah.

Some of them would have some Numenorean blood in them from waaaaaay back in the second age, when Numenorean sailors made a Haven down there. But those were the "black Numenoreans" as in "bad Numenoreans" who rebelled against the ban of the Valar and managed to get their island (Atlantis, essentially) destroyed. The kingdoms of Arnor (formerly in the area near the Shire, but fallen into ruin by the time of LotR and Gondor were founded by the faithful Numenoreans who fled Numenor just before the fall. Hence, there is a sort of a blood feud going on with Umbar.

The guys on the Oliphaunts were Haradrim... from farther South, or maybe the East, I forget.

-Arrian, geek.

It's more complicated than that. The Black Numenoreans are residents of Umbar, but the Corsairs are not Black Numenoreans, they IIRC are the remnants of the losing side in the Kin-Strife and are rebel Gondorians.

Arrian · December 23, 2003, 17:35

:bows to superior geekdom:

-Arrian

p.s. I've always wondered how a small group of refugees could found two powerful kingdoms and beat down Sauron (with the elves, I know), all during Elendil's lifespan. I know they are long-lived, but if memory serves the longest of all, Elros, lived for 500 years. Elendil was presumably an adult before the fall, since he led the faithful. He also presumably died before his natural time, since he died in battle.

That doesn't leave all that much time for the founding of two kingdoms, the building of all those cities & towers, etc.

-Arrian

lord of the mark · December 23, 2003, 17:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Arrian
:bows to superior geekdom:

-Arrian

p.s. I've always wondered how a small group of refugees could found two powerful kingdoms and beat down Sauron (with the elves, I know), all during Elendil's lifespan. I know they are long-lived, but if memory serves the longest of all, Elros, lived for 500 years. Elendil was presumably an adult before the fall, since he led the faithful. He also presumably died before his natural time, since he died in battle.

That doesn't leave all that much time for the founding of two kingdoms, the building of all those cities & towers, etc.

-Arrian

well youd have to get into how many numenoreans there were - i mean if the black numenoreans thought they had the power to take down the Valar, so they must have been quite a lot - even a minority of the numenoreans could have been quite considerable. OTOH I dont think JRRT was all that good on subjects like demographics, economics, etc.

Arrian · December 23, 2003, 17:41

True. Best not to worry about such things.

-Arrian

Drake Tungsten · December 23, 2003, 19:45

You had to post the questions while I was asleep, didn't you? I knew the Ecthelion one...

Dis · December 26, 2003, 02:42

I found myself rooting for Gollum- Smeegal (sp?) in the 2nd and 3rd movies. Does that make me evil?

.

I was kind of thinking smeegal might turn good at the end, but I should have known better. I actually felt kind of bad when smeegal took that dive off the cliff. Someone else in the audience also had a sympathetic sigh.

So how exactly did smeegal survive that fall? I guess people can fall off cliffs in middle earth without dying as Aragorn did the same thing

.

MrBaggins · December 26, 2003, 07:29

Smeagol wasn't so much bad/evil, as being corrupted into Gollum and completely dedicated to the Ring. Frodo becomes somewhat of a lesser version of him. Do you feel that Frodo was evil or an anti-hero?

So, all in all, in my view, he's a tragic character, and certainly not a bad guy, in my view.

Jon Miller · December 26, 2003, 07:34

I concur

I am glad that we only disagree vehemently in the Civ4 forum

Jon Miller

Lord Merciless · December 26, 2003, 15:05

But we can say that Smeagol/Gollum was MORE evil than Frodo. Frodo never really got attached to the ring before entering Mordor, while Smeagol killed Deagol minutes after its discovery.

Even in Mordor (at Spider's cave), Frodo still managed to keep his head clear: "Well, Smeagol, I'm going to destroy the Ring, for the sake of us all". He only failed at the very end.

centrifuge · December 26, 2003, 21:13

Good Movie

, I was dissapointed with some omissions, but overall it was extremely well done. My only complaint was that I had to use the bathroom all through it, which made it so that the end came none to soon.

Verto · December 26, 2003, 21:20

I just saw it tonight. Despite some omissions and a few "tweaks" to Tolkien's story, it was pretty good.

kittenOFchaos · December 26, 2003, 22:30

Ending was really poor with far too much slow-mo crying and hobbit staring!

The army of the dead shouldn't have come to Pelannor Fields, rather take 5 minutes hobbit staring away and fill in that the Army of the dead allowed Gondar to beat the Cosairs and use the men freed up to come to Minas Tirith by boat.

LEGOLAS should not have suckers in hands and legs and climb oliphants properly using the arrows stuck into it as hand and leg holds, then he can do the business

Like how they had designed a place for Denethor to leap off in fire, though he had to run 0.5 km on fire to get there

Where was the mouth and testicles of Sauron?

Galadriel is sexy, I want her as my wife

Great film, could have been done far better quite easily it has to be said. Having seen all three films I have to say I enjoyed the first one the most and think that for me personnally it conveyed the most authetically middle-earth "feel". I think that may be because there wasn't by this stage so many is he/is he not dead scenes and not so many ****ing slow-mo crying scenes.

Bet Aragorn will make for a **** King as his speeches were lame-ass and would not have been heard by most the audience. Eomer for King! :yeah:

In addition:

1. I want a speeder with Luke Skywalker to take on those Oliphants

The decision to charge them showed Theoden to be a most foolish Commander, but a brave one

2. Hated the army of undead...but it did make for a great joke and probably saved the time needed to do it as per the book (bible).

3. Gollum was brilliant and I did love the inclusion of the scene with the lembas bread being thrown over the cliff and I noted so did most of the audience. The ploys Gollum used to break Frodo/Sam up were ones that people could relate to be it directly or indirectly in their own lives and went down well.

4. WOWOWOW that was alot of horsies re: Ride of the Rohirrm. Apparently 6,000 didn't turn up as Theoden got 6,000 and expected 12,000

That is a hell of alot of killing power waiting in Rohan to be unleashed :yeah:

5. I hope that shops start stocking Lord of the Rings costumes, swords and beds for me to purchase at the earliest opportunity

Great series of films all the same

Dr Strangelove · December 27, 2003, 00:55

I wonder what they will add on to the extended version of the DVD? I hope they will include the scouring of the shire.

Imran Siddiqui · December 27, 2003, 00:57

Quote:

I wonder what they will add on to the extended version of the DVD? I hope they will include the scouring of the shire.

Apprently they never filmed it.

Verto · December 27, 2003, 00:57

I don't think they filmed that at all, Strangelove.

The scenes they shot with Christopher Lee should be put back in.

Lonestar · December 27, 2003, 00:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
I wonder what they will add on to the extended version of the DVD? I hope they will include the scouring of the shire.

It wasn't even filemd, Dog.

That said, this is one Tolkienite who is glad they didn't put that anticlimatic POS to film.

Verto · December 27, 2003, 00:58

You will be scourged for such a statement.

Lonestar · December 27, 2003, 01:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Verto
You will be scourged for such a statement.

Bite me. Tolkien wasn't infallible. The Scouring was unnesscery and anticlimatic. I know Tolkien talked alot about how "it was vital" and "Blah , blah, blah", but it wasn't.