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Old December 20, 2003, 12:02   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
VB sucks compared to Java.
I have only found one feature in java that's better than what's avaliable in VB... and that's RMI

Quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Anyway, the forum game version is definitely easier to write, because in the real Nuclear War game, you got things like anti-missiles and retaliatory strikes. You also have things like propaganda.


Anti-missiles? Retaliatory strikes?

In the game I played, the only difference is, there's a little more random-ness in the game, and a few more options (Like different nukes with different firepower... and planes, which is basicly nukes)

Quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Looks like you can do the thing in PHP with some JavaScript and HTML in a couple of hours.
Probably... if you know PHP, JavaScript and HTML... then yeah...
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Old December 20, 2003, 13:30   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by ADG
I have only found one feature in java that's better than what's avaliable in VB... and that's RMI
You can't run VB on a server, you can't write programs that are cross platform, you can't write applets, VB is not OO, security of VB is seriously lacking, VB is slow. You want me to go on?

Quote:
Originally posted by ADG
Anti-missiles? Retaliatory strikes?

In the game I played, the only difference is, there's a little more random-ness in the game, and a few more options (Like different nukes with different firepower... and planes, which is basicly nukes)
Okay, I was talking about the real card game. But you have propaganda, yes?

Quote:
Originally posted by ADG
Probably... if you know PHP, JavaScript and HTML... then yeah...
My point is it's not hard.
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Old December 20, 2003, 13:42   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
you can't write programs that are cross platform
VB.NET runs on any platform the .NET CLR runs on, which includes but is not limited to Windows, MacOS X, BSD, and Linux.

Wiseguy.
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Old December 20, 2003, 13:43   #34
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And RMI is evil.
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Old December 20, 2003, 14:58   #35
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Hmm Asher, first of all, I respect your input, your knowledge on anything PC related is obviously vast and anything you say might affect my opinion on related matters.
Similary I very much enjoy and value UR's opinion and beeing able to hear from the both of you, two usually completely opposite views, is indeed a great bonus.

Having said that, do we really have to witness your 'thing' with UR in every thread, I don't really mind it in the OT but please, keep it there.
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Old December 20, 2003, 15:02   #36
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VB is indeed not OO, and slow, but java is not very fast when you start doing user interfaces. And, RMI is a catastrophically bloated slow thing. Just about every other feature makes me prefer java to VB. Exception/error handling is much better for instance in java than in VB (noting that various versions of VB don't handle errors the same way).
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Old December 20, 2003, 17:37   #37
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Originally posted by alva
Hmm Asher, first of all, I respect your input, your knowledge on anything PC related is obviously vast and anything you say might affect my opinion on related matters.
Similary I very much enjoy and value UR's opinion and beeing able to hear from the both of you, two usually completely opposite views, is indeed a great bonus.

Having said that, do we really have to witness your 'thing' with UR in every thread, I don't really mind it in the OT but please, keep it there.
The forces of misinformation are no match for me. I will hunt down his lies, big and small, NEAR AND FAR, to ensure nothing but the truth is out there...
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Old December 20, 2003, 17:41   #38
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Ok, should we stop the "I prefer this language, and hate that language" talk. Create a new thread if you want to talk about this.

...unless you're interested in joining the project, I'm not interested in hearing about this here...
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Old December 20, 2003, 19:50   #39
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Ok, I've been reading the Nuclear Wars threads... and I don't mind about what version we should implement, because I'm not sure what is funnier.

I think that the first thing to do, after choosing version, is to do a desing with all the classes to implement, who is going to implement them, what are them to do and the interfaces between different's guys work.
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Old December 21, 2003, 01:14   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by yaroslav
I think that the first thing to do, after choosing version, is to do a desing with all the classes to implement, who is going to implement them, what are them to do and the interfaces between different's guys work.


Though it seems the rules for the forum version of Nuclear Wars is quite cut and dry.
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Old December 21, 2003, 01:15   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Asher
The forces of misinformation are no match for me.
/me imagines Asher chases after himself, spinning in circles until falling down.

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Old December 21, 2003, 01:17   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by LDiCesare
VB is indeed not OO, and slow, but java is not very fast when you start doing user interfaces.
That's why you have RAD environments based on Java.
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Old December 21, 2003, 01:38   #43
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In a desperate attempt to salvage this thread, I'll try to return it back on-topic.

ADG,

I like your idea, although I'm afraid there is too little detail about the game right now to start even thinking about the class structure as yaroslav suggested.

First of all, I think you need a clear vision of what the game is going to be and how it's going to be played. So far in this thread, the only information along those lines comes from your first post:

Quote:
And I'm not talking about making them SP, but MP, with a Server, which runs 24 hours a day, taking in orders and such.
I am not sure I see exactly how you envision this game going. Like this:

The player fires up the game, connects to the server, starts a game with some other players in the lobby, and then they duke it out.

?

Or like this:

The player connects to the server, chooses one of the game he's started earlier with his friends, looks at the status of the game, sends orders, and disconnects untill the next time he wants to check on what others are doing.

?

So, in other words, do you want this to be a real-time MP game (well, real-time is bad wording. Of course, it would be turn-based. But by real-time I mean, the game is started and finished without a break in between), or more like the forum game, with breaks in between and such, sort of more like PBEM, except with no e-mail involved? As you can see, these two would be very different games, even though they may have the same premise.

Finally, I would be glad to help you, whichever programming language you choose. Although I recommend Java, because I figure it would be crucial for ADG to be an active member in the development, and thus if he can check up on the progress of the code, or even better - contribute to it, that would be a big +.

So, like I said, I'd be glad to help you out with this. I'm not sure about the coding part, as I will be doing TONS of that the next semester, because I'm taking three CS classes, and so I will probably be sick of seeing code. But advice, for what it's worth, and maybe some graphics (I am a programmer blessed with an artistic inclination slightly below that of a normal person, as opposed to utterly miniscule, as that of any self-respecting coder. ) are something I would gladly offer.
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Old December 21, 2003, 02:11   #44
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You can use Java on the front end, it just looks like an overkill.

On the backend, you need to pay $$$ for J2EE if you want to use JSP.
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Old December 21, 2003, 02:32   #45
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this is interesting
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Old December 21, 2003, 08:12   #46
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Welcome Vovan

-
Quote:
I'm taking three CS classes
Whay's a CS class?
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Old December 21, 2003, 10:15   #47
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Computer Science class (lessons, course, whatever), I suppose.
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Old December 21, 2003, 11:43   #48
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Should have figured that one out myself.
Thought it was some specific language or something.
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Old December 21, 2003, 13:01   #49
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Seems like this is about to get somewhere

Vovan >>

I think it'll be best (?) to have the players join the server, picks game number (if playing several games), sends orders... 24 hours later he/she checks what have happened during last turn, and play the order again (Like in forum style)... that way we don't have to play only against people from same timezone


I'll post some more specific rules later, so we have something to work from...
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Old December 21, 2003, 13:53   #50
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@ADG

I agree with the delayed-basis game. I hate to play only with people in my timezone
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Old December 21, 2003, 14:40   #51
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ADG, any idea what kind of style/look you want the (html) pages to be ?
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Old December 21, 2003, 14:41   #52
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Here's some of the rules (Mostly taken from the game). Please comment them.


(The numbers are to be discussed)





Weapons:

There exist two different kinds of weapons: Nukes and bombers
Bomber:
A bomber needs to be prepared before they can attack. The startup time is one turn. If the bomber isn’t used the following turn, you need to re-prepare it to use it. A bomber can attack two turns in a row (Unless being countered with a shield)
The bomber exists in 2 versions: (Please come up with a better name)
The weak bomber: When successful it kills a random number of people between 1 & 20
The strong bomber: When successful it kills a random number of people between 15 & 40
Nuke:
A nuke can be fire, without any preparation time, but can only be used once.
There are 4 different nukes: (Don’t know anything about these values, but I believe it was those values used in the game)
10 mgt: When successful it kills a random number of people between 1 & 15
20 mgt: When successful it kills a random number of people between 10 & 25
50 mgt: When successful it kills a random number of people between 20 & 40
100 mgt: When successful it kills a random number of people between 30 & 60

After an attack (For bombers that is after 2nd attack), the weapon is used. All players have a weak bomber, and 2 of 10 mgt nukes, and 1 20 mgt nuke. To get more weapons, you need to build more




Defense:

There’s only one kind of defense, but there exists two different versions:
Simple shield: When used, it manages to destroy 75% of all nukes, and 50% of all bombers
Advanced shield: When used, it manages to destroy 85% of all nukes, and 75% of all bombers

This works like the weapon system: When using one, you lose one, though more can be built in the factory.

The % of chance of success is based on some random number between 1 and 100. If the # is lower than the %, the defense worked as it should





Factory:

A factory takes one turn to ‘do its job’. During this turn, it builds a random number of weapons/defense (How exactly this works, should we talk about… not sure about it)
A factory output could look like this:
1 x 10 mgt nuke
3 x Simple defense
2 x Strong bombers

The computer games factory is very random: Sometimes you get one 10 mgt nuke, while some times you get enough weapons to win the whole game… The randomness should defently (sp?) get tuned down




Spy:

The spy system should more or less work than in the forum game. Maybe with the exception, it’s not possible to spy on a player who haven’t issued an order yet (But no changes to the sabotage order)






Propaganda:

When doing propaganda on a specific city, you get a number of its citizens to one of your cities (A random city of yours). You can get all citizens in specific city (Making this city ‘wasted’)
This number is based on:
-Randomness
-How many times you’ve attacked this player (The more times, the fewer citizens)
-How many times you’ve used propaganda on this player (The more times, the fewer citizens)

If a player before you destroyed target city before your turn, you get nothing
There’s a small chance a propaganda has a side-effect: You lose a random number of citizens from a random city of yours, to target city.
This number is based on the same as above, though with a ‘the more times, the higher risk’ instead






Bonus:

Not sure if we should include this or not. Just going to mention this, since it was in the game

Each turn there’s a minor chance (Based solely on randomness), a random player gets a small bonus… or anti-bonus:
This bonus could be like getting more people in a random city (By a baby-boom), or maybe one of your cities loses some citizens to some alien abduction… and stuff like that…
They were pretty funny, but might screw up the game too much… What do you think?
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Old December 21, 2003, 14:45   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by alva
ADG, any idea what kind of style/look you want the (html) pages to be ?

I'm not good with style/look kinda stuff (Just take a look at my website, then you know what I mean ), but I guess it has to be something along the line of a nuclear wasteland ?
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Old December 21, 2003, 16:36   #54
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alva,
yaroslav here is correct. I am attending a university and have three programming courses scheduled for the next semester. Two of them are project courses, so that's going to be a lot of work. Besides that, the intellectual masochist that I am, I am taking economics, physics, and statistics. I hope I survive that spring.

ADG,
Okay, so I have another question. It looks from what people are saying about the looks of web-pages and all, that maybe the general idea about the game is that it will not be your conventional stand-alone windows application, but rather a web-based strategy game thingie, kind of like BNT? In that case, UR is correct, and making the front-end in Java would be a bit of an overkill. It would be much easier to stamp out your classic PHP+MySQL app (or an ASP.NET+C#+MSSQL app, depending on whether your server is linux or windows-based) and be done with it. In fact, such approach would go well with your idea of having players issue orders at different turns.

Then you can have a database-driven web interface, which will allow the player to log-in, then view all of his active games, choose the game he wants to send in orders for, view and assess the situation, issue orders, log out, close browser. Done.

If you would like it to work that way, however, then Java is pretty useless. You need some kind of server-side scripting language, like I said above: PHP or ASP, depending on whether you like linux or windows. (True, you can run PHP on windows or ASP on linux, but hey, let's not be perverse here. ) I, personally, am a big .NET fan, so I'd recommend that, but I am equally fluent with both of these, so I can assist you with either one.
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Old December 21, 2003, 16:41   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by ADG
I'm not good with style/look kinda stuff (Just take a look at my website, then you know what I mean )
That's a lot better than what I could ever make.
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Old December 21, 2003, 17:50   #56
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ADG, you'd prefer to work with the old amiga game?

I have a DOS version of the same, shall I zip it and attach it to this thread so everyone in the project can have a look at the rules in action?

-Jam
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Old December 21, 2003, 18:03   #57
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Hmm, that be very usefull indeed.
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Old December 21, 2003, 18:05   #58
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So it would be, if the game is abandonware and not like some of the games from some canine site we prefer not to talk about here.
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Old December 21, 2003, 18:18   #59
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Its a DOS shareware version of an old Amiga game.

I'm SURE it would be ok. I'll just check if it has a readme saying "feel free to share me"

-Jam
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Old December 21, 2003, 18:24   #60
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From the readme

Quote:
License Agreement

NUCLEAR WAR, all versions, are copyright protected and are the property of RedCreek
Software. Until further notice, this software is totally beerware. Therefore by charging
anyone money or services for this software you are a really nasty bastard. Individual
commercial use is forbidden if not a payment of $666 is sent to R.C Software.

NUCLEAR WAR may be copied, distributed and used in any other manner without the prior
written consent of R.C Software.

Because NUCLEAR WAR is beerware, you are required to send a beer to the vice president
of R.C Software before one month after the day NUCLEAR WAR was installed. If not the
program will destroy your computer. It will turn up the heat in your freezer so all
your icecream melts, erase all your channels on your TV. With ultraviolet radiation it
will destroy all your CDs. It will give out your phone number to your last
girlfriend/boyfriend. It will drink up all your beer and leave your dirty clothes all
over the apartment when your mother is coming. It will hide your car keys when you
are late. It makes you fall in love with a penguin. It will give you nightmares about
circus dwarves. It will go out with your girlfriend/boyfriend behind your back and
charge everything on your credit card. It will randomly move around your car in the
parking lot so that you can't find it. It will kill your dog. It will give you HIV.
So don't underestimate the wrath of Backmask!

To get all the updates on Nuclear War delivered to you send an email to
redcreek@hotmail.com. After a confirmation-email is received, you will be notified if
any updates or other improvements have been made to the game.

Thanks for playing the great game of Nuclear War.

By using this software, you are agreeing to the above terms.

NUCLEAR WAR is Copyright (C) 1997-1999 RedCreek Software.
So then it MUST be ok

But I can't attach it, it's 1.3 megs, which is too big for 'poly's 500,000 bytes limit. Ideas anyone?

-Jam
__________________
1) The crappy metaspam is an affront to the true manner of the artform. - Dauphin
That's like trying to overninja a ninja when you aren't a mammal. CAN'T BE DONE. - Kassi on doublecrossing Ljube-ljcvetko
Check out the ALL NEW Galactic Overlord Website for v2.0 and the Napoleonic Overlord Website or even the Galactic Captians Website Thanks Geocities!
Taht 'ventisular link be woo to clyck.
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