May 26, 2004, 15:59
|
#211
|
|
Emperor
Local Time: 08:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,725
|
Any progress on the project, ADG? 
Hope you did well on the exams, btw. 
|
|
|
|
|
May 26, 2004, 16:19
|
#212
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 16:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 11,112
|
We're not done with the exams yet... the exams-project is due to this friday, and then I have to study the the...uhmm... english word needed... "talking exams"...
Wont be before mid-june I'm done... 
__________________
This space is empty... or is it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
May 26, 2004, 16:21
|
#213
|
|
Emperor
Local Time: 08:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,725
|
Ack, that's a lot of exams. Good luck then.
|
|
|
|
|
|
May 26, 2004, 16:23
|
#214
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 16:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 11,112
|
Thx, I'll need it
__________________
This space is empty... or is it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 1, 2004, 13:13
|
#215
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 16:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 11,112
|
I just got an idea... I just downloaded a new skin for winamp... this one to be exact...
And then I was thinking if it would be a good idea to try to make Nuclear War like this...
I mean to have the game just be a small window, which basicly contains all information needed... of course I'll have to spend lot of time trying to design it correctly, to make sure it's got everything it needs...
This gives a huge advantage: You don't have to alt+tab back to windows, if you're getting tired of waiting for the other players orders... You can even have several games running at once... and I don't have to spend time creating an ingame chat, since you can just use Messenger/ICQ/Whatever at the same time 
I also don't have to waste time trying to find out how DirectX works (The thing that gave me lots of trouble)
I'm posting this here for several reasons:
1) To remind me later, when I got time to program it
2) To hear what others got to say about this
__________________
This space is empty... or is it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 1, 2004, 15:54
|
#216
|
Local Time: 14:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Deity of Lists
Posts: 11,873
|
|
Quote:
|
|
english word needed... "talking exams"...
|
"oral" exams.
good luck
__________________
-->Visit CGN!
-->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 1, 2004, 15:55
|
#217
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 16:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 11,112
|
Ah, thx... to both
__________________
This space is empty... or is it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 1, 2004, 17:19
|
#218
|
|
Emperor
Local Time: 07:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: hippieland, CA
Posts: 3,781
|
Does the game have sound?
__________________
Visit First Cultural Industries
There are reasons why I believe mankind should live in cities and let nature reclaim all the villages with the exception of a few we keep on display as horrific reminders of rural life.-Starchild
Meat eating and the dominance and force projected over animals that is acompanies it is a gateway or parallel to other prejudiced beliefs such as classism, misogyny, and even racism. -General Ludd
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 1, 2004, 17:26
|
#219
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 16:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 11,112
|
I doubt it will... at least not in the first version, which will basicly just be a 'quick' version, to get something usefull running...
When that'll be I don't know... but I hope soon, since I can't wait to play this game
__________________
This space is empty... or is it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 2, 2004, 00:40
|
#220
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 22:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
|
If you code it in Java, I can help you.
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 4, 2004, 00:24
|
#221
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 22:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
|
No takers? 
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 4, 2004, 09:10
|
#222
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 16:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 11,112
|
I wont make the game in Java... I started in java, but since nobody gave a hand I decided to stop, and I wont return to it, since I'm tired of Java...
__________________
This space is empty... or is it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 4, 2004, 12:10
|
#223
|
|
Emperor
Local Time: 08:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,725
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by ADG
I wont return to it, since I'm tired of Java...
|
 Java is teh eevil.
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 4, 2004, 13:17
|
#224
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 16:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Republic of Flanders
Posts: 10,747
|
Me neither, how everyone is so fond of it?
Can' stand Jbuilder, especially the debugger ( foundation edition)
Don't like to say it but I really prefer Visual studio and VB.net, granted I'm a newbie but still...
__________________
#There’s a city in my mind
Come along and take that ride
And it’s all right, baby, it’s all right #
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 4, 2004, 13:25
|
#225
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 22:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
|
I don't see you have any need for a debugger anyway, alva
Anyway, Java is excellent because it's OO and completely extensible. That means people can write classes that you can drop in and use.
Of course, because it's OO, a lot of people started with imperative languages can't wrap their heads around it.
VB isn't bad, but it lacks power.
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 4, 2004, 13:28
|
#226
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 22:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by ADG
I wont make the game in Java... I started in java, but since nobody gave a hand I decided to stop, and I wont return to it, since I'm tired of Java...
|
Already? If that's the case, you're not cut out to be a programmer.
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 4, 2004, 13:39
|
#227
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 16:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 11,112
|
I decided to stop because I wasn't interested in doing in Java alone... If people back then wanted to help with the java version, then it would probably have been done by now, but I'm just not interested in programming in java...
...and after programming a little in VB my computer 'burned down' so I couldn't program for several weeks...
...and for the past few months I haven't had any time programming, because I was busy programming school project...
Sure, I'm not exactly a fast programmer, and not a quick learner either, if that's what you meant...
|
Quote:
|
|
VB isn't bad, but it lacks power.
|
Where exactly does it lack power? From what I've seen there's more possibilities in VB than in java... 
__________________
This space is empty... or is it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 4, 2004, 13:41
|
#228
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 16:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Republic of Flanders
Posts: 10,747
|
|
Quote:
|
|
I don't see you have any need for a debugger anyway, alva
|
I do...I do...I do
VB.net is OO too, it's just easier to use ( again, so far)
Maybe i should add that so far, I've only been doing applets.
__________________
#There’s a city in my mind
Come along and take that ride
And it’s all right, baby, it’s all right #
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 4, 2004, 13:48
|
#229
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 22:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by ADG
...but I'm just not interested in programming in java...
|
More and more programming tasks will be done in Java, though.
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by ADG
Sure, I'm not exactly a fast programmer, and not a quick learner either, if that's what you meant...
|
Not that. You can use more fortitude, though.
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by ADG
Where exactly does it lack power? From what I've seen there's more possibilities in VB than in java...
|
You can't build Applets for starters. You could with ActiveX, but there are security problems and ActiveX is not cross browser. Then there are servlets, JSPs, and beans.
Java also got things such as Xerces (XML parser), Jakarta, and a whole mess of other things you can just drop in and use.
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 4, 2004, 13:55
|
#230
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 16:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 11,112
|
But aren't most of these things only used for web-stuff?
I've used most of those things (don't know Jakarta), and for now I've only seen this being used for web-stuff, not real applications...
__________________
This space is empty... or is it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 4, 2004, 14:37
|
#231
|
|
Emperor
Local Time: 08:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,725
|
Pfft, everyone knows Python is the way of the future. 
JK, of course.
Seriously, though, while IMHO, language debates are mostly about personal preferences, and never change the mind of any party involved, I'll bite.
Java... To be honest, I love it and I hate it. I love it, because it gives me so much pre-built! Need to parse an XML file - it's all there; need threading - it's all there; need networking - it's all there; need GUI - it's all there. There are just so many classes, that whatever you need to do - chances are it's already been done. For you, it's then just a matter of putting the pieces together. As such, Java is great for rapid development of small and / or prototype applications.
On the other hand, I hate it. Despite the latest improvements, the API is still a bloody convoluted mess. Deprecated functions and classes, and changes of standards abound. Despite the latest attempts at standardization, there is still a lot of ways to do any one thing, and most of them are wrong.
Next - garbage collection. In a word, it sucks. You know how they told you couldn't have memory leaks in Java? They lied. If you are not careful with memory, you'll leak, and you will crash and burn. System.gc()? Doesn't work. As per the white-papers, it is a mere 'hint' to Java to garbage collect. It won't work if Java doesn't deem the amount of memory left low enough. The thing will still stop at the most critical moment in your app, lock everything up and garbage collect.
Have you ever tried to write a game in Java? I have, and it was one of the worst experiences in my life. It was a programming project for college last semester, and we had to write a fairly big game. In Java. One of the teams had huge problems with memory. The asked Java for 512 MB, and still ran out of memory every now and then. Granted, that's an extreme example, and pretty bad programming on their part, but it is still pretty illustrative of Java. It's garbage collection simply cannot handle cross-references, or even vectors of objects properly.
One of these days, open your favourite Java application in a profiler, and see how much memory the VM takes. I ran WebSphere like that recently. 150 MB. It's a bloody HTTP server! It shouldn't take more than 10MB tops. That and its slow as hell.
Java. Heh. Even VB is better for writing games. 
PS: Oh yeah, have you seen Java 3D API? Don't even get me started on that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 4, 2004, 16:00
|
#232
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 16:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Republic of Flanders
Posts: 10,747
|
[obligatoryYetInterested]
What your opinion on Java 3D API?
__________________
#There’s a city in my mind
Come along and take that ride
And it’s all right, baby, it’s all right #
|
|
|
|
|
|
June 5, 2004, 00:24
|
#233
|
|
Deity
Local Time: 22:49
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
Posts: 14,606
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by vovan
On the other hand, I hate it. Despite the latest improvements, the API is still a bloody convoluted mess. Deprecated functions and classes, and changes of standards abound.
|
Sure, but that's because new versions have to be backward compatible, so it's messy. If you want a clean language, try Smalltalk or Oberon.
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by vovan
Despite the latest attempts at standardization, there is still a lot of ways to do any one thing, and most of them are wrong.
|
There should be many ways to do any one thing. Even though some ways are superior than others.
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by vovan
Next - garbage collection. In a word, it sucks. You know how they told you couldn't have memory leaks in Java? They lied. If you are not careful with memory, you'll leak, and you will crash and burn.
|
Still, having automatic gabage collection is better than not having any. At least you would have a measure of failsafe just in case you forget, unlike C++. In fact, a lot of commercial Wintel applications leak memory (some faster than others) so eventually you need to reboot.
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by vovan
The thing will still stop at the most critical moment in your app, lock everything up and garbage collect.
|
Hm... unless the apps are real time, there's no such thing as "most critical moment," no?
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by vovan
Granted, that's an extreme example, and pretty bad programming on their part, but it is still pretty illustrative of Java.
|
Same thing can occur just easily, if not easier, in C or C++. I think it's mostly bad programming.
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by vovan
It's garbage collection simply cannot handle cross-references, or even vectors of objects properly.
|
Cross references?
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by vovan
One of these days, open your favourite Java application in a profiler, and see how much memory the VM takes. I ran WebSphere like that recently. 150 MB. It's a bloody HTTP server! It shouldn't take more than 10MB tops. That and its slow as hell.
|
Websphere is a beans server IIRC.
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by vovan
Java. Heh. Even VB is better for writing games.
|
Clearly, it depends on programming style and how good you are with the language. There are a number of games written in Java. Granted, they aren' exactly fast, but they show games are doable.
Of course, nothing beats assembly.
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by vovan
PS: Oh yeah, have you seen Java 3D API? Don't even get me started on that.
|
At least they tried to put out a 3D API, instead of leaving you out on your own
__________________
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:49.
|
|
