Major League Baseball Discussion: Offseason

Imran Siddiqui · December 18, 2003, 17:32

So it seems that the A-Rod for Manny deal won't go through. After the union ruled that A-Rod couldn't restructure his deal for Boston because he had to be getting a benefit (isn't going from a last place team to a playoff team a benefit?) from restructuring. It doesn't seem like they'll ask for an extension. It would have been a great deal. A-Rod for Manny, and then Nomar for Ordonez. I wonder now how Manny and Nomar will like to go back to work for the Red Sox? And Texas must be shaking their heads. They had a deal to save a lot of cash by dealing A-Rod, but couldn't get it done. That was their best bet. No one else can really eat A-Rod salary (except the Yanks and they aren't biting).

The Yanks have lost Pettite and Clemens, but restocked with Vazquez and Brown. Whether this is as good as it looks depends on how well Brown holds up. Last year he was lucky, but we all know his recent injury history, and he is 39. I think the Yanks may miss Nick Johnson, who they had to give up for Vazquez. Giambi is a horrible defensive 1B, and now he can't simply play DH. Oh, and Sheffield just signed.

Of course there are other teams

. The Mets seem to have made themselves MUCH better by signing the other Matsui to play SS. One wonders what the status of Reyes is, who was supposed to take over at SS this year. They also sign Mike Cameron, who Tom Glavine will love. You can tell he misses Andrew Jones. While Cameron isn't Jones, he is a Gold Glove CF and a much bigger upgrade than what they had.

The Braves replaced Sheffield with J.D. Drew. Drew is another player with injury problems. Has there been a year where he has played over 130 games? They also aren't offering a contract to Maddux, and traded their best pitching prospect for Drew, so one wonders how the rotation will play out.

The most IMPROVED team will be, bar none, the Orioles. They just signed Tejada. They are on the verge of signing I-Rod or Javy Lopez to put behind the plate, and rumors are swirling that they are in the running for Vlad Guerrero. Of course there are also rumors that the Dodgers dumped Brown's salary so they could afford Guerrero. So that'll be interesting to watch.

Anything you guys want to add?

Arrian · December 18, 2003, 17:35

I don't wanna talk about it. I didn't follow the Yanks back in the 80s, and apparently the baseball gods have decided that shall have to be remedied.

-Arrian

GePap · December 18, 2003, 17:38

George III is having a fit after not winning. Its not that Pettitte was some superstar pitcehr that was winning Cy joung awards, but he was part of the heart of a team-which still counts, and more than money why the Yanks won from 96 to 2000. Which is why yankee fans could nto give a damn about Brown, Vazquez and Sheffield.

Imran Siddiqui · December 18, 2003, 17:41

Quote:

George III is having a fit after not winning.

Yeah, it seems dangerously like the beginning of the 80s, when George was getting pissed because they hadn't won the WS since the late 70s and started getting personally involved.

At least he hasn't tried to get A-Rod and trade Jeter away

.

Spec · December 18, 2003, 17:42

Baseball sucks.

Spec.

Imran Siddiqui · December 18, 2003, 17:45

Bah, go away then

.

Spec · December 18, 2003, 17:46

NEVER!!.

Spec.

asleepathewheel · December 18, 2003, 18:06

I'm glad the cards could unload Nancy Drew. What a waste of...god I don't remember, 15 mil?

and for a decent return (at least considering Wainwright's future) no less.

Imran Siddiqui · December 18, 2003, 18:08

Very decent return. Marquis will help right away as well (as a fairly decent 4th or 5th starter).

Sava · December 18, 2003, 18:27

The Orioles won't be the most improved... they are just making the same mistake they did a few years ago (Albert Belle)... they won't get Vlad, and Tejada will continue to degrade since his MVP season.

THe White Sox are making a huge mistake. They are trying to trade Magglio ORdonez for Nomar Garciaparra and Scott Williamson... only to save a few bucks, and despite the fact Reinsdorf said he would spend more money if attendance went up, and it did by about 500k last year. Oh well, sucks to be a White Sox Fan.

The Cubs' Jim Hendry should go to jail for stealing Derek Lee from Florida. Plus, despite the Oriole rumors, I hear Pudge is considering coming to the North Side. Either way, the Cubs, right now, are the favorites to win the World Series. Pettite is going to put up mediocre numbers in Houston, and nobody else in their division has done anything.

Boston has improved and will give the Yankees a run for their money, but Lowe, Schilling, and Pedro are all a year older... Pedro will probably be great, by I'd be surprised if Schilling does anything more than breaking the automated strike machine system in Boston.

lord of the mark · December 18, 2003, 18:32

the O's have been breaking my heart for over 15 years now. I'll beleive it when I see it.

Imran Siddiqui · December 18, 2003, 18:34

How are the Orioles making another mistake? They have a very good young team, they just added Tejada who will put up good numbers. They'll get either I-Rod or Lopez (btw, the Cubs don't want to spend what I-Rod wants) behind the plate, and if they get Vlad, watch out. They have a good young pitching staff (from the prospects they got from the Giants for Ponson). They'll suprise.

Cubs, favorite for the WS?

Good team, yes. But that's going a bit too far at this point. The Cubs add Lee, but they need a catcher. They don't seem like they are really going after I-Rod or Lopez (suprisingly). If they get I-Rod, then yeah, pencil them in. But the way they are going now, they aren't gonna get him.

The favorite for the WS is either the Yanks or Red Sox. You have a WS team (Yanks) who add Sheffield, and replace Pettite and Clemens with Vazquez and Brown. The Red Sox add Schilling, who'll get you at least 15 wins and add Foulke as the closer.

The Emperor Fabulous · December 18, 2003, 19:40

I ****ing hate player unions. They make things so difficult. If both the teams are satisfied and the players are satisfied then what is the ****ing problem?

Does the Player's Association really believe he NEEDS the extra 30 Million? He's not being given his just rewards earning only 197 Million?!?!?!

****ing players unions...

Sava · December 18, 2003, 20:01

The O's have no pitching Imran... they will be just like the Rangers.

BTW, the Cubs were 5 outs from the WS and picked up Derek Lee and LeTroy Hawkins while keeping their stud pitching staff intact. The Yankees got weaker, the BoSox got marginally better, the Marlins got worse, the Braves got worse... tell me, who is more threatening than the Cubs?

Yankees? please.... Brown is like 40... you think he's going to put up the number he used to? Not likely. Vazquez probably won't adjust to the DH. Pitchers moving from NL to AL usually don't have big years.

And how good was Sheffield in the playoffs for the Braves?

Yankees?

don't make me laugh...

Berzerker · December 18, 2003, 20:46

So far Boston and Chicago have made the biggest moves toward the WS, but we'll have to see how these pitching additions by the Cards help. That was a good move to dump Drew if these pitchers can be effective starters. Breaking news...the deal for A-Rod is dead...

Sava · December 18, 2003, 21:06

hmmm interesting about the A-Rod deal. If Garciaparra stay with Boston, I suspect there will be some bitterness.

Imran Siddiqui · December 18, 2003, 21:14

Quote:

The O's have no pitching Imran

They have some great young talent. Helling and Lopez are average. Daal takes some innings. Moss is a very good young pitcher. Ainsworth will be a solid #1 pitcher in the future. Moss and Ainsworth can make the team have a decent rotation. If not this year, then next, definetly.

Quote:

Yankees? please.... Brown is like 40... you think he's going to put up the number he used to? Not likely. Vazquez probably won't adjust to the DH. Pitchers moving from NL to AL usually don't have big years. And how good was Sheffield in the playoffs for the Braves?

Yankees? don't make me laugh...

As a Yankee hater, I can say that that type of talk only leads to disappointment. The Yanks ARE the evil empire, they'll find a way. Brown had a damned good year last year. Vazquez will at least have 14-15 wins, especially with better run support. Sheff is generally a good player and may do better with a smaller ballpark.

And remember, the weakness last year for the Yanks was the crappy bullpen. They've spent to address that.

Right now, I'll put the list Yankees, Red Sox, then Cubs (and maybe Philly after that). If the Sox can somehow make the deal for A-Rod, they rocket up to the top of the list. If the Cubs can get I-Rod, they go to the top. Right now the Yanks are looking pretty.

Quote:

we'll have to see how these pitching additions by the Cards help. That was a good move to dump Drew if these pitchers can be effective starters

Very true. Suppan will win at least 12. Marquis could be a very nice young starter. Wainwright is going to be good in the future. Maybe not now, but in a few years. Remember, the Cards were only 3 games back of the Cubs (the 'Stros were 1 game back).

Imran Siddiqui · December 18, 2003, 21:18

And face it... both Boston and Chicago are cursed (as we saw in the playoffs last year), which makes it so neither can be favored.

monolith94 · December 18, 2003, 22:07

How did we ever possibly agree to give manny ramirez THAT much money???

Vlad Antlerkov · December 18, 2003, 22:25

The combination of Dan Duquette (

), and an inflated market.

JohnT · December 18, 2003, 23:04

Quote:

Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous
I ****ing hate player unions. They make things so difficult. If both the teams are satisfied and the players are satisfied then what is the ****ing problem?

Does the Player's Association really believe he NEEDS the extra 30 Million? He's not being given his just rewards earning only 197 Million?!?!?!

****ing players unions...

Actually, they're worried about the trickle down effect it will cause. If the ceiling (A-Rods contract) gets lowered 30%, the union believes that, in time, all players contracts will show a corresponding drop in value.

Berzerker · December 18, 2003, 23:10

Quote:

If the ceiling (A-Rods contract) gets lowered 30%, the union believes that, in time, all players contracts will show a corresponding drop in value.

Not to threadjack, but that's why unions like increases in the minimum wage even though union workers don't get the minimum... It creates and upward pressure on union wages...

Rex Little · December 19, 2003, 00:19

Joe Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus has an excellent article explaining why the restructuring of A-Rod's contract does and should matter to the union.

http://premium.baseballprospectus.co...articleid=2490

And don't forget, Rodriguez himself said he didn't want to do the deal if the union didn't approve.

Imran Siddiqui · December 19, 2003, 02:11

Quote:

If the ceiling (A-Rods contract) gets lowered 30%, the union believes that, in time, all players contracts will show a corresponding drop in value.

Which is silly, IMO. Because the market has gone South since that time. FA aren't getting the $20 a year deals anymore (see.. Vlad Guerrero). Owners are clamping down. A-Rod will have the largest deal for quite a while.

Imran Siddiqui · December 19, 2003, 02:17

Quote:

Joe Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus has an excellent article explaining why the restructuring of A-Rod's contract does and should matter to the union.

Personally I think most of the article is stupid. Especially when he says A-Rod would be stupid to take a cut of $30 million in order to a better work environment. Sheehan says people giving him that advice are idiots, because the owners would laugh if someone said they would get $30 million less for a better work environment.

WHAT? Does Sheehan understand sports at all?!! Some players may wish to win a World Series. I mean, really... wouldn't you rather be Derek Jeter than Ernie Banks? I think PLENTY of players would take less money to win a championship and they do it ALL THE TIME!

Hello?!

And while I can see why the union would get mad... I think the MLBPA needs to be broken in the worst way.

The Emperor Fabulous · December 19, 2003, 02:30

Especially if its winning a World Series with Boston or Chicago

Imran Siddiqui · December 19, 2003, 02:32

True... you'd be a hero for like... forever. 300 years from now, some homo superior from Boston would be talking about how A-Rod showed those Yankees and started the Red Sox dynasty

.

Berzerker · December 19, 2003, 03:08

Did you say the Cards got Suppan, Imran?

Imran Siddiqui · December 19, 2003, 10:55

Yep... they got him a week back or so.

Arrian · December 19, 2003, 11:54

Quote:

Originally posted by monolith94
How did we ever possibly agree to give manny ramirez THAT much money???

Because you had already mustered that much money to throw at Mussina, but the E.E. beat you to it, so Duquette just HAD to get somebody else. Manny was the best remaining, and the market, as has been said, was inflated (I mean, come on! Look at what we paid for Jeter. I'm a fan, don't get me wrong, but Derek Jeter is most assuredly overpaid).

-Arrian