Emporer is bringing me to my knees

Node · December 20, 2003, 19:35

My last five games have been horrible failures before or during the middle ages.

I steamrolled through regent, and thought Monarchy might offer a challenge. I beat Monarchy even better than my game in regent, I conquered the five other civs populating the continent and won by space race.

Now on Emporer I can't win at all. I trade techs to each civ I know. I only trade 1 tech + gold or luxury for another tech. I try to expand as fast as possible, but even then I'm smaller than my rivals and they have improvements and units! I try an early 15 archer rush, and when I conquer their city I get destroyed by 10 swordsmen. Nothing is working.

I need help.

alva · December 20, 2003, 20:05

Don't panic...don't panic...

At first the gap between monarch and emperor is quite a big leap, but you will get used to it.

Gradually you'll pick-up little tricks here and there and eventually you 'll beat the AI and start thinking about moving up to demi-god.

-
Post some screenshots,even your save (preferably one early middleages) and read up on some threads in the strategy forum.

alva · December 20, 2003, 20:10

Try this one.
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=59216

note (again): some of the info in these threads is somewhat dated due to patches, expansions,...

vmxa1 · December 20, 2003, 20:21

Theseus has a thread in the strategy forum where people can post their save and screenies to get some feedback.

Or you could just use this one.

smellymummy · December 21, 2003, 23:36

i was reading one of those threads earlier and attempted a game at emperor, standard map, random everything, and I get Rome and a great start! room to build 8-10 cities and then surrounded by jungles and ocean. I thought perfect.

then came the AI... the AIs really! alliances were formed against me left and right the minute i refused to give into demands. I did manage to bribe one AI on my side to help, and that one got massacred.

I could go on about its difficulties.. anyway i just gave up that game

it was fun though! winning all time on easier levels just gets boring.

alva is right, emperor is a big leap from monarch!

vmxa1 · December 21, 2003, 23:53

Sometimes you have to make a proper evaluation of your situation and just pay the extortion. It is not so much the level, but your comfort with a given level.

I will pay off at demi or higher if need be. Save the valor and pride for a better time. I remember playing Monarch fo the first games, and give it up when it made sense, until I learned how to be stronger.

steven8r · December 22, 2003, 13:50

I, too, am having trouble w/ Emperor. In my latest game as the Japanese, the AI out-REXed me. Fortunately, I was able to secure the two Iron resources and my Swords took-out their Longbows and Berserk. I was finally able to extort all the Ancient techs from my Medeval rivals. And now my realestate looks respectable.

However, while waiting for the 20-turn peace treaties to expire, I find myself even further behind in techs. My Samuri are now having to contend w/ Cavalry (if done with a little forethought, they actually stand a fighting chance--but not for much longer.

I soon will be trying to learn gunpowder whilst trying to defend agains Infantry and Tanks. It looks like the Japanese, in this game, will have a Glorious albeit Brief history.

Spec · December 22, 2003, 13:58

Take into consideration that on Emperor, the AI gains extra units everytime it builds a city. And also has a high AI to AI trade value. Also, you have a handicap while fighting units. Dont worry about it, you'll get there someday......

WHat I find most frustrating at this level is when My medival infantries cant even kill punny spearmen....sigh.

Spec.

vmxa1 · December 22, 2003, 15:54

I am not aware of any handicap for combat at any level, except in regards to barbs. What do you mean? Do you mean that the AI get a bonus for any given combat against non-AI?

Spec · December 22, 2003, 15:57

I mean that there is no way that my swordsman can easily kill spearmen like they should. I always need double or triple the amount of swordsman to kill the spearmen that are guarding the city in question. Surely, I am not the only one to whom this happens.

Spec.

alva · December 22, 2003, 17:11

I never witnessed such behaviour. Sometimes your lucky and sometimes the AI is, other then that I would say..perception.

vmxa1 · December 22, 2003, 19:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Spec
I mean that there is no way that my swordsman can easily kill spearmen like they should. I always need double or triple the amount of swordsman to kill the spearmen that are guarding the city in question. Surely, I am not the only one to whom this happens.

Spec.

I don't know how to address that, since I do not have a combat calc to give a percentage chance. I would say that a sword is not going to easily beat a forted spear in a town. It can and does beat it, but it is not a given.

In game combat results are not reliable and I am leery of antidotes of how battles are perverted. I mean that it is common to remember the percieved slights. So if you have that experience, I cannot discount it or take it as rule of thumb.

I woudl not send a sword to a city to kill a spear and figure I was good to go. If I send three and lost all of them (no other bonus), I would not like it, but it does happen.

I also know that it seems that it does not work that well for me, my spear wil not being killing stacks of swords, but then I would not expect it to do so.

IOW you mileage may vary is so true.

Node · December 22, 2003, 23:37

OK, here's my most successful game so far on Emporer. C3C, Ottomans, just stopped a war with Egypt. It feels like I'm not going anywhere, and that I'm always going to be trailing behind. I need to get saltpeter for my Sipahi but since all my rivals are incredibly rigged super countries they don't want to trade with me unless I have 90 different techs they don't already have. All of the countries don't trust me because I was trading with Greece, and Egypt walked over the roads that connected me to Greece, and everyone thinks I'm some evil horrible treaty breaker which is just retarded.

I would like suggestions on how to progress in this game so I can actually win.

http://home.mchsi.com/~mithaniel/Ozzie.zip

vmxa1 · December 23, 2003, 01:18

Yeah it is sort of homely to get hit with the break trade when the road gets cut.

vmxa1 · December 23, 2003, 02:21

Node I just got the patch so I only took a little peek at your game.
You are not in bad shape. I would have wanted to get Theory sooner for that wonder, but here is what I saw as your play for saltpetter.

As soon as you got gunpowder you knew you did not have any and could see that some was near Knosse or what ever it is called. It turns out that there is a place to drop a settler. I would have been there by now. You may still be able to rush a settler and ship it and a bunch to units to that site and drop a town in a position to have the saltpetter.

It would have been so much better to have had a ship to haul them, so you would not even have to get into anyones land. It may take too long now.

Send them and try to get by with I will leave, but keep going or make an RoP, otherwise get a ship. If you have to drop the research down to raise the money. That spot is more important than getting MT a turn or two sooner. It won't be worth anything with out the saltpetter.

Use a few of those tundra cities to crank out more workers. If you get coal you will need to get those rails going.

I would have not researched MT if I had goten my guys down for the saltpetter, but instead taking Theory and Mag. I would want to get to the next age for steam. I would then rely on my muskets and knights to keep anyone at bay until I was able to get MT and or Nationalism if I was real worried.

Those nice Saphi will be too late for the big impact as the top civs will have rifles real soon.

Theseus · December 23, 2003, 10:42

Haven't looked, but vmxa1's advice seems sound... where I differ, though, is that Sipahi versus Rifles is just fine in my book!

vmxa1 · December 23, 2003, 12:34

Sorry for the rush job last night. BTW Theseus I would agree that they can take down a rifle, but it will be painful to take a big city with rifles and some longbows or cannons.

I did not look at the might of Egypt, but the AI usually has lots of units at this stage and will pound on any city you take. It could be that they do not have saltpetter either or you can cut it before they get rifles. If things come to that.

Anyway I meant to point out that you will need 3 settlers and a worker squad. Probably 6 units for each city of 2 knights, 3 MI and a pike.

If you are on decent footing with Egypt and Germany, then start gifting them tech if you have any they do not have, cash or luxs otherwise. Get them very polite. Get an RoP if you can with Egypt. Send the horde to the three sites, by the saltpetter, by the coast and one in between.

You need to hook those cities ASAP to be able to use the saltpetter. A work crew to road a tile each turn from the slatpetter to the harbor site.

First thing is to rush a lib in each city. Rush a temple in the two non-harbor cities as the harbor is next in it. You can hold off rushing it until you have the roads done to save cash.
Temples in next and the city in the middle get the barracks to upgrade pikes first and then knights.

To pay for this you will cut back on research after finishing MT. You will have time to raise cash. This all falls apart if you are on bad terms with Egypt or it takes too long to get the settlers in place.

Node · December 24, 2003, 02:53

What should I do with my great leaders?

First one made an army, second one rushed a better palace location, and a third one.. I have no small wonders. Should I just make another army?

vmxa1 · December 24, 2003, 03:21

I forget what was going on, other than you need saltpetter. If you do not have any small wonder to built, then I like having an army. I want to get three so I can get the pentagon and have 4 units in my armies.

Leave the new army empty and wait to see if you can get calv for it.
Should be forced into a war before hand, then you coudl always load it up with troops.

Ben Williams · December 26, 2003, 13:45

I stumbled into the strategy of attacking till i get a great leader, using him to build the great library and setting my science to zero. My plan now is to attack as much as I can before education to get a lot of land so i'll be able to hold my own in the industrial age. Anyone else tried this?

vmxa1 · December 26, 2003, 14:01

It is pretty common to one degree or another prior to C3C.

dexters · December 27, 2003, 08:09

One game is usually not always a good measure of how well you perform.

Emperor is a big step up, but I played 5, 6 games on Monarchy and Regent in different configurations to get a feel for the real difficulty.

A bad start on Monarch can be very difficult. And almost unwinnable when a killer AI emerges and you're stick in a dinky little island continent.

pedrojedi · December 28, 2003, 10:26

I would say impossible. Starting isolated in a small island is a real science nightmare. I remember fondly of a game that I played with the babs that started in one such location... I lost, probably a space race win made by the english, but I gained territory in the continent and at the end I was not so many techs behind...

Theseus · December 28, 2003, 17:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Node
What should I do with my great leaders?

First one made an army, second one rushed a better palace location, and a third one.. I have no small wonders. Should I just make another army?

Depends on where you are in the game... If it's reaaaaally early, such that you have not yet gotten any cities above 10spt, I'd prolly kill something with that first Army and rush the HE. Otherwise, yes, build another Army.