Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 27, 2003, 04:33   #1
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
Do we need to restore courage to barbs?
I am wondering if it maybe time to buck these puppies up a bit.
I sent an army of crusaders (4x) to attack a city. The city was size 2 and had three unit (warrior/archer/spear). I got close and saw next to the city 9 horsemen barbs and 2 warriors. These brave souls sit there why the AI was sending its archer out to hit them.

They finally decided to send the last 10 at my army, that was on a hill. Can you say doom? Then I took the city. BTW no promotions for killing all 10 barbs and three Sumerians, I had the Epic.

In the previous game I had a similar stack sit next to my city (size 2 or 3) and I had two AC's in it. They never attacked, while I send a few more units over to take them out piece meal.

I am seeing more and more of this behavior. I know they want to make the barbs stop killing themself, but this is silly.
vmxa1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27, 2003, 06:18   #2
Flip McWho
Warlord
 
Local Time: 03:13
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 266
Yeah i've noticed that too. When you pop them from goodie huts only one attacks you then the rest fortify.

They do need beefing up again don't they. I mean now they don't even inspire fear into anyone.
Flip McWho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27, 2003, 12:07   #3
CerberusIV
lifer
C4WDG United Dungeon DwellersC4BtSDG Templars
Emperor
 
CerberusIV's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: on the Emerald Isle
Posts: 5,316
I just played a game as the Sumerians. At the far end of my continent an Enkidu discovered a barb camp with around fifteen barb horsemen sitting in it. I moved onto an adjacent mountain and then attacked. Every time I took damage I fortified the Enkidu until he healed then attacked again. My unit went through about half the stack before dying. A bit pointless really.

Barbs do need to be more aggressive.
__________________
Never give an AI an even break.
CerberusIV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27, 2003, 12:37   #4
ChrisiusMaximus
Civilization III PBEMApolyton Storywriters' GuildCivilization III Democracy GameC3CDG Blood Oath HordeC4DG The HordeC4BtSDG Rabbits of CaerbannogCiv4 SP Democracy GameCivilization IV PBEMC4WDG éirich tuireann
Emperor
 
ChrisiusMaximus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Staffordshire England
Posts: 8,321
Is their any difference if you increase the barb settings?
__________________
A proud member of the "Apolyton Story Writers Guild".There are many great stories at the Civ 3 stories forum, do yourself a favour and visit the forum. Lose yourself in one of many epic tales and be inspired to write yourself, as I was.
ChrisiusMaximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27, 2003, 13:21   #5
Paddy
Iron CiversApolyton Storywriters' GuildThe Courts of Candle'BreBtS Tri-LeagueC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamC3CDG Blood Oath HordeCiv4 SP Democracy GameC4DG The HordeC4WDG éirich tuireannApolytoners Hall of Fame
Prince
 
Paddy's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:13
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: at the beach
Posts: 40,904
Quote:
Originally posted by Flip McWho
Yeah i've noticed that too. When you pop them from goodie huts only one attacks you then the rest fortify.

They do need beefing up again don't they. I mean now they don't even inspire fear into anyone.
Yes, I agree, they do need some work.
It is pointless having scared barbarians in a game.
__________________
Gurka 17, People of the Valley
I am of the Horde.
Paddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27, 2003, 15:03   #6
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus
Is their any difference if you increase the barb settings?
Not sure as I always use roaming. Even though fane7 gave us the road map to leaders with raging
vmxa1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28, 2003, 02:46   #7
MrWhereItsAt
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameCivilization II Democracy GamePtWDG RoleplayAlpha Centauri PBEMSpanish CiversCall to Power Democracy GameCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontPtWDG2 Latin LoversACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG3 GaiansC3CDG The Lost BoysCivilization III Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton Team
Deity
 
MrWhereItsAt's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:13
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: That's DR WhereItsAt...
Posts: 10,157
Playing on Raging, it is almost as bad. I am encountering (on Monarch) bands of 6-7 Barbs in a camp that stay there, even with undefended cities/workers nearby. If I accidentally misclick and move a worker next to them they attack, but if I move a warrior or archer there they only attack after a turn or two of nothing. I have seen this several times, so it seems they must wait a certain period before attacking.

Strange, yes? OTOH there DOES seem to perhaps be a greater incidence of barbs (several turning up all at once in the one hut).
__________________
Consul.

Back to the ROOTS of addiction. My first missed poll!
MrWhereItsAt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28, 2003, 02:50   #8
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
I do feel that the huts are more inclinded to pop barbs. It seems very hard to get any tech for me as an non-expansionist civ.

There was a time where the barbs would sneak around to do some pillaging, but even that now rare, just fort up.

Last edited by vmxa1; December 28, 2003 at 14:42.
vmxa1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28, 2003, 03:35   #9
Flip McWho
Warlord
 
Local Time: 03:13
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 266
Yeah I agree. Goodie huts are no longer really goodie. They almost always give barbs.

Maybe we've seen the beginning of the new pacifistic barbarian. Nothing like peaceful warriors striking fear into the innocent.
Flip McWho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28, 2003, 09:32   #10
ducki
C3C IDG: Apolyton TeamPtWDG2 Cake or Death?Apolyton University
King
 
ducki's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Our house. In the middle of our street.
Posts: 1,495
Sounds like another nice PtW feature that somehow missed the C3C branch on the code tree.

I've also noticed the extra wimpiness of barbs with Conquests. No pillaging, no attacking "easy" targets, just lame elite-generators.
__________________
"Just once, do me a favor, don't play Gray, don't even play Dark... I want to see Center-of-a-Black-Hole Side!!! " - Theseus nee rpodos
ducki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28, 2003, 10:34   #11
Makahlua
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMPtWDG2 TabemonoACDG PeaceCivilization III Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamACDG3 Data AngelsC4WDG Team ApolytonC3CDG Blood Oath HordeBtS Tri-LeagueCivilization IV: MultiplayerCivilization IV PBEMC4DG The HordeCiv4 SP Democracy GameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
King
 
Makahlua's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: State of Insanity (aka Texas)
Posts: 2,242
Yeah like the stack of 10 pikemen that kept bouncing in and out of the border of one of my cites in the Mesoamerica conquest yesterday

#1, how did a camp generate -pikeman- ? Maybe I just usually don't have any camps left when me/the AI gets to new eras.

#2, those chickens could've taken my lone spear easily but just kept bouncing back on and off the mountain by the city - a prime attack point no less!
__________________
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
PolyCast | Girl playing Civ + extra added babble! | Yo voté en 2008!
Makahlua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28, 2003, 13:58   #12
Kuciwalker
Deity
 
Kuciwalker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
They should make the basic barb a Gallic Swordsman and the advanced the Keshik

Quote:
#1, how did a camp generate -pikeman- ? Maybe I just usually don't have any camps left when me/the AI gets to new eras.
It was probably a special scenario feature... in the epic game they don't do that.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
Kuciwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28, 2003, 14:47   #13
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
In the General Settign on the editor you can set the barbs to any unit. It could be the basic one or the advanced one. It is up to you.
vmxa1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28, 2003, 15:28   #14
Kuciwalker
Deity
 
Kuciwalker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
Yes, I know. I actually tried that once, then quit when dozens of barbarians kept raiding my helpless capital.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap

Last edited by Kuciwalker; January 7, 2004 at 01:50.
Kuciwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28, 2003, 22:52   #15
MrMismatch
Settler
 
Local Time: 15:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 13
Is it possible to change when the brabs change from basic to advanced?
MrMismatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29, 2003, 00:55   #16
Cerbykins
Warlord
 
Cerbykins's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 265
Not that I know of.
It is bad that barbs don't seem to want to charge anymore, but considering that goody huts have finally been tweaked to give expansionists the edge...well...do you REALLY want jumped in the early exploring phase?
__________________
It's all my territory really, they just squat on it...!
She didn't declare war on me, she's just playing 'hard to get'...
Cerbykins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29, 2003, 01:33   #17
Inverse Icarus
Emperor
 
Inverse Icarus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: flying too low to the ground
Posts: 4,625
i really like the fact that the barbarians seem to run into the shadows, and try their damndest to kill workers / pillage roads.

but yeah, i've seen them sitting in camps in large stacks, for no reason.
__________________
"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
Inverse Icarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29, 2003, 12:53   #18
CerberusIV
lifer
C4WDG United Dungeon DwellersC4BtSDG Templars
Emperor
 
CerberusIV's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: on the Emerald Isle
Posts: 5,316
I pushed barbs up from roaming back to raging for my current game. Horsemen are just starting to appear.

The barbs seem erratic. There is a definite radius around a barb camp and if you have a worker or city within it they come running. If not they sit and a stack builds up.

I am interested to see what happens if there are any camps left when the next era is reached. In a couple of my earlier games that seemed to trigger huge stacks of barbs heading for the nearest city.
__________________
Never give an AI an even break.
CerberusIV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29, 2003, 13:33   #19
UnityScoutChopper
Warlord
 
UnityScoutChopper's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Brno, Czech Republic
Posts: 172
I find them actually a bit tougher this way -- "gather and attack" rather than "piecemeal."

USC
UnityScoutChopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29, 2003, 14:36   #20
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
CerberusIV after two civs make it to the middle ages it triggers barb uprisings.
vmxa1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29, 2003, 17:18   #21
CerberusIV
lifer
C4WDG United Dungeon DwellersC4BtSDG Templars
Emperor
 
CerberusIV's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: on the Emerald Isle
Posts: 5,316
Quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
CerberusIV after two civs make it to the middle ages it triggers barb uprisings.
I know. It makes life interesting if you are behind in tech and not ready for it.
__________________
Never give an AI an even break.
CerberusIV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 1, 2004, 18:22   #22
EnduringBlue
Civilization III Democracy Game
Settler
 
Local Time: 15:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 29
I have been so disgusted with the ineffectual barbarians now (I used to routinely add RAGING to my old games in order to make me mind my P's and Q's, now they just fortify unless settlers park on their doorstep) that I routinely edit their units to swordsman/knight/caravel.

at least then i can't ignore them. they used to be a crucial factor, but lately they need more testosterone.
EnduringBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2, 2004, 02:59   #23
Cerbykins
Warlord
 
Cerbykins's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 265
Shame for me, because that's partly what I do to get shot of camps - move in the settler with a defender and build next to the camp (thus guaranteeing the barbs will be on a downward slide... )
Of course, that's only if wanted to build there in the first place
__________________
It's all my territory really, they just squat on it...!
She didn't declare war on me, she's just playing 'hard to get'...
Cerbykins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 6, 2004, 20:53   #24
Theseus
PtWDG Gathering StormApolyton UniversityApolytoners Hall of FameBtS Tri-LeagueC4DG Gathering StormApolyCon 06 Participants
Emperor
 
Theseus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm!
Posts: 8,907
Without question, this needs to be addressed.

I had a stack of barb horsemen sit in place in a hut (after an era change) just SIT THERE while a whittled them down for elite promotions.
__________________
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.
Theseus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7, 2004, 01:07   #25
ducki
C3C IDG: Apolyton TeamPtWDG2 Cake or Death?Apolyton University
King
 
ducki's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Our house. In the middle of our street.
Posts: 1,495
I can top your promotion machine
Dig this. Border just bumped. Hut got popped. Barbarians come raging out and....

....sit down for a picnic? They could sack my capitol and take my workers or at least chase them all over the place. But no, they fortify in place. And I don't have a single military unit even close to them.



:doubletake:
Attached Thumbnails:
Click image for larger version

Name:	weeniebarbs.jpg
Views:	77
Size:	69.0 KB
ID:	61131  
__________________
"Just once, do me a favor, don't play Gray, don't even play Dark... I want to see Center-of-a-Black-Hole Side!!! " - Theseus nee rpodos
ducki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7, 2004, 02:41   #26
Theseus
PtWDG Gathering StormApolyton UniversityApolytoners Hall of FameBtS Tri-LeagueC4DG Gathering StormApolyCon 06 Participants
Emperor
 
Theseus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm!
Posts: 8,907
To vmxa1's point:

You should be dead.

Firaxians: Not only do barbs need to re-gain some viciousness, we need to go back to Civ2...
__________________
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.
Theseus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7, 2004, 05:02   #27
Paddy
Iron CiversApolyton Storywriters' GuildThe Courts of Candle'BreBtS Tri-LeagueC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamC3CDG Blood Oath HordeCiv4 SP Democracy GameC4DG The HordeC4WDG éirich tuireannApolytoners Hall of Fame
Prince
 
Paddy's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:13
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: at the beach
Posts: 40,904
Re: I can top your promotion machine
Quote:
Originally posted by ducki
Dig this. Border just bumped. Hut got popped. Barbarians come raging out and....

....sit down for a picnic? They could sack my capitol and take my workers or at least chase them all over the place. But no, they fortify in place. And I don't have a single military unit even close to them.



:doubletake:
ah well, looks like the AI is using these Barbarians as AI defensive units in case one of the AI nations attacks you...

Quite amazing actually, thanks for the pic
__________________
Gurka 17, People of the Valley
I am of the Horde.
Paddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7, 2004, 06:24   #28
MrWhereItsAt
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameCivilization II Democracy GamePtWDG RoleplayAlpha Centauri PBEMSpanish CiversCall to Power Democracy GameCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontPtWDG2 Latin LoversACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessCivilization III PBEMC3C IDG: Apolyton TeamACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG3 GaiansC3CDG The Lost BoysCivilization III Democracy GameInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton Team
Deity
 
MrWhereItsAt's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:13
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: That's DR WhereItsAt...
Posts: 10,157
Re: I can top your promotion machine
Quote:
Originally posted by ducki
Dig this. Border just bumped. Hut got popped. Barbarians come raging out and....

....sit down for a picnic? They could sack my capitol and take my workers or at least chase them all over the place. But no, they fortify in place. And I don't have a single military unit even close to them.

:doubletake:
Brilliant ducki - thanks for the screenie. I saw this recently myself, but neglected to post one. I guess we just see what happened in v1.13....
__________________
Consul.

Back to the ROOTS of addiction. My first missed poll!
MrWhereItsAt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7, 2004, 11:22   #29
ducki
C3C IDG: Apolyton TeamPtWDG2 Cake or Death?Apolyton University
King
 
ducki's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Our house. In the middle of our street.
Posts: 1,495
I was gonna post a follow-up. I switched production to a settler, lost my warrior to the southern barbs, roaded 5 more tiles, mined 1, irrigated 2, settled a new town(with no escort) on the third tile down the river and until my workers started roading/irrigating the southern-most Ivory before southernmost of the northern barbs even MOVED, at which point he worked his way to the southern ivory and ate my workers - finally.

That's just ridiculous. I miss the PtW barbs. At least they would have pillaged improvements or explored or SOMETHING. I wonder how we get this to the attention of Jesse - any of you old pros got a line?
__________________
"Just once, do me a favor, don't play Gray, don't even play Dark... I want to see Center-of-a-Black-Hole Side!!! " - Theseus nee rpodos
ducki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7, 2004, 12:51   #30
vmxa1
PtWDG Gathering StormC4DG Gathering Storm
Deity
 
vmxa1's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:13
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oviedo, Fl
Posts: 14,103
That is all I am asking for. Just a tiny tweak to make them not be so whimpy. No need to go back to them tossing themself against forted spears behind walls, just pillage when it is at no risk. Attack when you have the numbers, such as three pop out of a hut and only a regular warrior is there. If they all attack and die, that is fine, but if they all fort up, what is the results? The warrior kills them at his lesiure or walks off. I don't want to go back to the automate elite for popping a hut.

Uprisings not attacking is crazy. I used to live in fear that a stack of 8 or more horsemen would come into a town with one defender. Now they do nothing, not even pillage.
vmxa1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:13.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team