Significant UU buffs I have noticed in C3C

Artifex · December 29, 2003, 16:42

1. The Gallic Swordsman now cost 40 shields instead of 50. Wow, just wow. Uber UU. Maybe best in game. This cost reduction is a MAJOR boost for an early UU with the power of the GS.

2. The Russian Cossack can now blitz and attack multiple times a turn. I can't remember it being able to do this before? Maybe I missed it since I never play the Russians.

3. French Musketeer is now 2-5-1 instead of 3-4-1.

4. The Mongol Keshik now treats hills and mountains as grassland for movement, used to be just mountians.

Those are the main 4 I can remember of the top of my head.

CerberusIV · December 29, 2003, 16:58

AFAIK the other UU they bumped was the Man-O-War which now has the enslave ability and can produce more of the same.

I think there is also a change in the AI regarding UU's. In games as the Dutch (Swiss Mercs) and the Sumerians (Enkidus) the AI's seemed very reluctant to attack my UU's and trigger my GA. Once my GA was underway this reluctance to attack these units disappeared.

Kuciwalker · December 29, 2003, 17:04

The Musketeer was 3-4-1

Inverse Icarus · December 29, 2003, 17:06

buffs.

MUSKETEER CASTS BLOODLUST!

thesilentone · December 29, 2003, 22:21

Musketeer also has defensive bombard now.

Inverse Icarus · December 29, 2003, 23:32

MAGIC ARROW! MAGIC ARROW!

Kuciwalker · December 29, 2003, 23:37

Quote:

Originally posted by sw99
Musketeer also has defensive bombard now.

It does?

Sarxis · December 29, 2003, 23:56

Very nice changes all around.

UnityScoutChopper · December 30, 2003, 08:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Uber KruX
MAGIC ARROW! MAGIC ARROW!

I TAP MY SNOW-CAPPED FAIRY RINGS AND CAST GIANT GROWTH!

USC

Louis XXIV · December 30, 2003, 20:34

The Jaguar Warrior now costs 15 shields. I remember hearing (but never checked to verify) that the Galic Sword now upgrades to Knights.

Kuciwalker · December 30, 2003, 20:52

Gallic Swordsman still upgrades to Medieval Infantry (well, actually to Legionary).

Xorbon · December 31, 2003, 00:01

A bunch of (formerly underpowered) units were improved in C3C. India's War Elephants have gained +1 hp; Korea's Hwach'a has been given lethal bombard (while bombardment strength has been reduced to 8); Babylon's Bowmen have been given defensive bombard; and America's F-15 has been improved along with all the other air units.

Kuciwalker · December 31, 2003, 00:04

Quote:

Babylon's Bowmen have been given defensive bombard;

As were Archers and Longbowmen.

Quote:

and America's F-15 has been improved along with all the other air units.

Meh. It was given lethal land bombard (a significant improvement over Jet Fighters), and its bombard was upped, but its defense was downed.

Now, if they disallowed all planes except Fighters, Jet Fighters, and F-15's from rebasing to Carriers... that would make the F-15 insanely cool. The Americans would be vastly better at projecting power overseas.

Cerbykins · December 31, 2003, 00:12

Hwach'a always had lethal bombard afaik (the first unit to be so, in PTW), but the war elephants are news to me!

After having seen mills in one scenario and hearing this now, it makes me wonder if Firaxis are secretly DYP fans

Kuciwalker · December 31, 2003, 00:20

No, Hwach'a lethal bombard was new. They said it was going to in PtW, but took it out because it was insanely powerful.

Brundlefly · January 5, 2004, 15:35

catapult can bombard naval units from land positions

SirOsis · January 5, 2004, 17:25

Quote:

Originally posted by bfg9000
catapult can bombard naval units from land positions

This is true in PTW also.

LordVipper · January 5, 2004, 22:19

I am 90% sure that Hwach'a had lethal bombardment in ptw...

Xorbon · January 6, 2004, 00:37

The Hwach'a just got lethal bombing in Conquests. In PTW, it had a bombard strength of 12 and no lethal bombard. Now, it has a strength of 8 (same as the cannon) and has lethal bombardment. I'm 100% sure of this.

In PTW, Korea was the only civ whose unit could NOT trigger a golden age. I remember this because I had to mod the game to give the Hwach'a lethal land bombard so it could trigger GA's.

Kuciwalker · January 6, 2004, 00:50

Quote:

Originally posted by LordVipper
I am 90% sure that Hwach'a had lethal bombardment in ptw...

and 100% wrong

just to be sure, I even checked the PtW rules file.

joncha · January 6, 2004, 00:57

Yeah, that one really ticked me off when I found out mid-game...

Serves me right for believing the "meet the civs" write-up on the Civ3 website.

jon.

Switch · January 6, 2004, 01:25

Speaking of UUs, have they balanced (or has it always been balanced) the hoplites and Numidian mercs? I never really played those civs together to compare, but can anyone else give an opinion? Personally, it APPEARS that Carthage's UU is overpowered compared to the Greek's.

vmxa1 · January 6, 2004, 01:30

Quote:

Originally posted by SirOsis

This is true in PTW also.

I think it was always true , even in CivIII. As long as the distance was one tile.

bongo · January 6, 2004, 17:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Switch
Speaking of UUs, have they balanced (or has it always been balanced) the hoplites and Numidian mercs? I never really played those civs together to compare, but can anyone else give an opinion? Personally, it APPEARS that Carthage's UU is overpowered compared to the Greek's.

Not if you're talking PTW, Num.mercs are 50% more expensive and gives you an extra attack point you'll never use, except for that first attack to trigger your GA.

Num.Merc, price 30s, stat=2.3.1
Hoplite, price 20s,stat 1.3.1

Have to admit that I still like the num.mercs, just that I think it is a bit overpriced.

Kuciwalker · January 6, 2004, 19:09

The attack point is worth a lot less than the extra ten shields.

Xorbon · January 6, 2004, 20:46

With people arguing on either side of the fence, maybe they're more balanced than one might think. There's give and take with both. For instance, the Numidian merc. is more expensive, but it can more easily trigger a GA offensively than a hoplite.

Fried-Psychotron (sp?

) gave an interesting review of PTW UU's quite a few months ago.

MrWhereItsAt · January 7, 2004, 04:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Artifex
1. The Gallic Swordsman now cost 40 shields instead of 50. Wow, just wow. Uber UU. Maybe best in game. This cost reduction is a MAJOR boost for an early UU with the power of the GS.

2. The Russian Cossack can now blitz and attack multiple times a turn. I can't remember it being able to do this before? Maybe I missed it since I never play the Russians.

3. French Musketeer is now 2-5-1 instead of 3-4-1.

4. The Mongol Keshik now treats hills and mountains as grassland for movement, used to be just mountians.

Those are the main 4 I can remember of the top of my head.

Fantastic changes - especially the lethal bnombard for the H'wacha and the much-needed Cossack improvement. Wih PtW Sipahi jus took the wind right out of the Russians' sails. And a defense 5 unit? Actually useful for a change!

CerberusIV · January 7, 2004, 05:36

Quote:

Originally posted by bongo

Not if you're talking PTW, Num.mercs are 50% more expensive and gives you an extra attack point you'll never use, except for that first attack to trigger your GA.

Num.Merc, price 30s, stat=2.3.1
Hoplite, price 20s,stat 1.3.1

Have to admit that I still like the num.mercs, just that I think it is a bit overpriced.

The other advantage of Num Mercs is that they make your forces look strong to the F3 advisor and the AI's so it acts as a deterrent to AI attacks if you want some peace and quiet.

That's the reason Carthage doesn't usually need to build musketmen.

The downside in C3C is that industrious workers aren't as good as PTW. In PTW it was quicker to get the first few tiles mined and your cities shields outputs up.

Brundlefly · January 7, 2004, 10:05

Musketeer defense value of 5 is too strong for the age that it appears. They should have left Musketeer/Musketman stats alone in c3c.

bongo · January 7, 2004, 10:28

I haven't tried it yet, but I think it is a good change. That extra attack point it used to have were close to useless. Much better with extra defence, after all, UUs are supposed to be stronger than their 'normal' brethrens