Trash Talking Thread

[Enigma_Nova]

I'm not a follower, plebian, I make this stuff up for myself.

So who have you sold your soul to?

[jtsisyoda]

The SMAX gods, of course. Haven't you?!

If you're thinking this up for yourself, there's a round simple machine I'd like you to reinvent, too.

[Drogue]

If he comes up with Ayn Rand 'philosophy' himself, then he really shouldn't be proud of it

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by jtsisyoda
If you're thinking this up for yourself, there's a round simple machine I'd like you to reinvent, too.

The Axle and the Wheel.
Already done... :/
BTW not having read about Rand, I can't comment on whether I agree or disagree with her writings, nor can I comment on the validity of her pieces.
But I think stuff up for myself so that's good.

[Maniac]

Enigma_Nova, your philosophy seems to be merely the logical consequence of the environment you grew up in, so despite what you may think you aren't being very creative, original or independent by "thinking this stuff up by yourself".

[Enigma_Nova]

And you couldn't demotivate the French army in the hundred years war. Now, shall we get back to talking trash?

[Enigma_Nova]

Screw it.
-bite-

Originally posted by Maniac
Enigma_Nova, your philosophy seems to be merely the logical consequence of the environment you grew up in,

Or the way I interperet the environment (and hence relay it to you)
Hence, a logical consequence of the basis from which I interperet the environment,
Hence, my philosophy is the logical consequence of the philosophy I follow.

Like I know what my past is like... Everything I see is blinded by my own beliefs and perceptions. Shows through well, as we have shown.

so despite what you may think

And what you think is -so- important?

you aren't being very creative, original or independent by "thinking this stuff up by yourself".

One could argue that the man who makes a table isn't being 'creative' since so many people have already made tables.
But, there is still an aspect of creation in taking a lump of wood, carving it how you want it then nailing it together.
Couple that with an ignorance (or in my case, rejection) of the instruction manual, and even greater creative talent is required.

If I am not following instructions, and I am doing something, I must be making my own instructions. So, in the least, I have to be creating something.
Just because it has been thought before, does not devalue the mind of he who reinvents it.
Because, in some hypothetical other-world, everything you have said and done has been done before, so what new good are you?

A whole lot, IMO, as I judge value personally not globally, but each to their own.
...

DAMMIT I just got trolled. >_<

[Maniac]

DAMMIT I just got trolled. >_<

You got that right!

Or the way I interperet the environment (and hence relay it to you)
Hence, a logical consequence of the basis from which I interperet the environment,
Hence, my philosophy is the logical consequence of the philosophy I follow.

A good point. It seems to be the question of the chicken or the egg. Does the creative individual influences and interprets its environment (with a consequential philosophy), or does the environment influence the individual (and its philosophy)? The answer seems to me that both are true. So you could see it as a scale with two extremes and lots of gray in between, with each person having interacting elements of both in him: a creative environment-interpreting/influencing individual and at the same time a mere follower of what the environment tells him to do.
Therefore I think you are wrong in creating such distinct categories of shepherds, sheep, masses, plebians and on the other side such supposedly special wolves who think independent etcetera...
You may lean more than average to the creative side of the creative<->following scale, but you are still a mere human, just like everyone of us, and not some extraordinary gifted individual beyond comparison with everyone else. Sometimes you are right, other times you are wrong, so you should not just per definition consider anyone who disagrees with you an ignorant follower.

Thanks for listening.

[DeathByTheSword]

wow a lot of text and i believe that maniac it right....every person is in the grey area...and some my have 'weaker' minds so will follow certain ideas that much quicker...but everone is percepteble to propaganda and 'brainwashing' just the right button needs to be pushed....and for some people with a 'stronger' mind more often...but seeing your self as special and creative is a dangerous thing....because your creative ideas are being influenced by outside references....if you would be asked to design an aircraft i bet you will come up with a classic design sorta-like that of a boeing 747. you use your past experiences in a field as references to build an own idea of the reality...well atleast that is what i think of this all

[Drogue]

I agree with Maniac, but still being human does not mean that you are "not some extraordinary gifted individual beyond comparison with everyone else". Indeed, you could be human but still be extraordinarily gifted. It all depends on what you classify as extraordinarily gifted. IMHO, a 17 year old Uni student may well become it, but they are still a Uni student.

[Maniac]

I agree about the "extraordinary gifted" part, but I would disagree one can be "beyond comparison", as that implies one belongs to some seperate category other than humans like we all are.

[Drogue]

Point taken. Although nothing can ever be beyond comparison, as even if it is massively lesser/greater it is still a comparison.

[jtsisyoda]

Where's my bouncer?! Throw these whining sophists out of my trash talking thread.

[GeoModder]

And how much you pay the bouncer?

It's expensive to dismiss those ivory tower guys, you know...

[Maniac]

GeoModder, go read your Private Messages!

[GeoModder]

Done, your's...

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Maniac
You got that right!

NOO! My inability to avoid talking about myself has landed me in more hot water.

A good point. It seems to be the question of the chicken or the egg.

The Self is a circular argument that has a beginning and an end.

Does the creative individual influences and interprets its environment (with a consequential philosophy), or does the environment influence the individual (and its philosophy)?

The way I see it is, that a being raised in a vaccuum would be unaware of an outside world, so there's at least a little influence there.
But during my prenatal 'voidishness' I came up with some 'thought', in what would effectively be a close-to-nothing environment.

The problem is, that while information exists for us to interperet, we also interperet that information. This interaction is what will inspire us to adapt. In my case, the existence of opposition to who I was made me swear to take it down; In other people, they may submit to it.
The information was still there - but people act upon it differently.
But then again, with different information, people can act the same.

It is most probably an interaction between Self and Environment. within Self, and within Environment that makes the great bastion of goodieness that we call 'life'.

Therefore I think you are wrong in creating such distinct categories of shepherds, sheep, masses, plebians and on the other side such supposedly special wolves who think independent etcetera...

I am well aware that there is a duality in people.
Decide / Conform, Lead / Follow, Independent / Social, and a whole lot of other stuff.
Though in the most part the ends of these dualities conflict, humans still embody both sides.
So here we are - the synthesis of contradiction.

Of course, that doesn't stop us from having skews.
I am skewed quite heavily towards Independant and Decide.
Others have their own skews, but you are right in suggesting that some people are central.
Ergo this is the reason why simply killing off all people that disagree with you won't work - there's a part of you in them, and a part of them in you!

While most of us work to nudge the skews in our favour, I'd rather have a system where the skews were working together as opposed to at each-other's throats.
But I reckon I'll need to push some skews to do that - Old ways / New ways and Apathy / Activity.
It's a big complex problem and yes I have thought about it before.

but you are still a mere human, just like everyone of us, and not some extraordinary gifted individual beyond comparison with everyone else.

I agree with you.
Save for the 'extraordinarily gifted' part - I reckon I'm pretty damn good. Chances are you're pretty damn good in your own way.

Of course if an Enemy said your quote, I'd probably deny it, as:
1. People mean different things when they say the same words,
2. To annoy The Enemy

Sometimes you are right, other times you are wrong, so you should not just per definition consider anyone who disagrees with you an ignorant follower.

Though I act like I do, it's a ruse. I follow 'Know Thine Enemy' - but I have a habit of not letting The Enemy know me.
(NOTE TO SELF: Fix pathological liar habits)

The problem is, while I admit many things to myself (and indeed I'll vouch to know a great deal more than I let on) I have the habit of lying my ass off whenever I'm faced with prosecution.
THAT'S Why I portray myself as Arrogant, Self-Righteous, and a man who knows -less- than he lets on.
It's easier for people to understand this than to process the reams of information I'd otherwise spew,
and if these folk are not interested in what I think (which is the primary basis for me distrusting anyone) then why should I be bothered to explain myself?

...

Point taken, I'll try to fix my roleplaying. Must be my conformist spirit there - acting different socially than alone.
Be honest to myself, and honest to my enemies.
Understand the innuendoes behind their phrases and insult them properly...
Yeah, sounds like something to do.

EDIT: Removed my mental debugging report

"I will be the truth!"
"If they accept the truth, they will accept me, and be my allies."
"If they cannot accept the truth, it is because:"
"1. They don't want to or 2. They can't."
"If they can't handle the truth, then they can't handle me. I can crush them."
"If they don't want to, their ignorance will be their downfall."
"Ignorance is a tough nut to beat, but I am Enigma_Nova!"
"Ignorance cannot stop The Truth."

I am proud of myself for learning how to adjust my thoughts like that, but believe that apathy is the general response among the Apolyton community.
I also believe that I am indifferent to the apathy of others, on the basis that I do this for me and not for them.
I believe that my tendency to write stream-of-consciousness will annoy people because I have a lot on my mind, and now will say it.
I think that people will get used to it.
How are you Gentlemen !!

Thanks for listening.

Ha ha ha.
There will be more listening than many of us can take, from now on.

[Nubclear]

"Let's not let the enemy know me, but let's also type up a one paged plus report on my thought processes"

[jtsisyoda]

After this short commercial break, we'll hear part 2 in this 2,319 part story of "Enigma's Life and Mind: I Am An Original! A Very Special Documentary by Ken Burns (with Enigma_Nova)"

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
wow a lot of text

*giggles*
Yes, we do that sometimes.
I'm a self-obcessed questioner that enjoys expressing himself.
What's your excuse?

and i believe that maniac it right....every person is in the grey area...

Great! We're all wise thinkers for stumbling onto the fact that you can't define humans by putting them into certain archetypes or 'boxes'.
Now let's laugh at all the fundies that can't.

(I'm feeling happier already. )

and some my have 'weaker' minds so will follow certain ideas that much quicker...

'weaker'? You mean... Willpower / Sumbissive.
A 'willpower skew' is what you're thinking of. I do not believe that people with a submissive skew are 'weaker'.
I mean, just look at Islam! They're all about submission and look how powerful the lot of them are!
Though an individual benefits more from willpower than submission, we're not all aiming to be what we are.
Some of us aim to be part of what's around us.

but everone is percepteble to propaganda and 'brainwashing' just the right button needs to be pushed...

You'd be hard-pressed finding a way to brainwash me.
(Though I would probably pretend to be brainwashed just to stab you in the back at a later date - so much fun. )

and for some people with a 'stronger' mind more often...but seeing your self as special and creative is a dangerous thing...

Enough (or not enough) of anything is dangerous.
And of course, there's the grey area where there's no set 'danger' level.
In short, anything is dangerous, and due to grey areas we can't tell what's more dangerous for whom!
We need creative self-focused folk, if only because their attitude lets them design new and exciting things.
I would think that it is dangerous -not- to accept the skews of people.
Then again, in every choice you leave something behind, so doing anything is dangerous.
Oh well, we're all screwed.

because your creative ideas are being influenced by outside references....if you would be asked to design an aircraft i bet you will come up with a classic design sorta-like that of a boeing 747.

No, I'd build it out of paper and throw it at you.

you use your past experiences in a field as references to build an own idea of the reality...well atleast that is what i think of this all

Experience taints, I've said it before.
Know that not all learning is straight-experential.
You can experience the thoughts of others by reading...
You can experience your own thoughts by introspection...
You can watch other people make the airplane...
Or you could pitch in and make the airplane yourself.
There are many types of learning. Experience is only one part of it.

[jtsisyoda]

Poly Broadcasting paid for part 2 of 2,319. Why'd you go back to the Prologue? We want part 2!

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Drogue
I agree with Maniac, but still being human does not mean that you are "not some extraordinary gifted individual beyond comparison with everyone else".

We're all beyond comparison with everyone else.
It's apples and oranges (Well in Drogue's case, a Banana ).
Then again how are you defining 'we'?
I'm 5'9'' and have turquoise eyes. You can compare either of those qualities.
But humans are made up of a virtual infinity (it's finite but huge) of qualities - both definable AND undefinable. You'd be hard-pressed to define any human fully.
And without a definition, or at least some visceral understanding, how can you compare people?
The best you do is approximate.
I don't think we can really compare people - doing so you would need to approximate people, and then they're just ideas you construct in your mind, not the people, aren't they?

Indeed, you could be human but still be extraordinarily gifted. It all depends on what you classify as extraordinarily gifted.

Having the stones to mock everyone I come across then having the guile to befriend some of them.
Wait, doesn't that make us all gifted?
DANCE IF YOU'RE REALLY DAMN GOOD.
Join in everyone!

IMHO, a 17 year old Uni student may well become it, but they are still a Uni student.

*ahem*
You're putting a SCIENTIST in the same class as Accountants, Lawyers and Arts students?

We're -so- much better than you all.
Name some famous scientists from history
Great! Now name some famous Lawyers, Economists, IT professionals, Engineers...

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
"Let's not let the enemy know me, but let's also type up a one paged plus report on my thought processes"

Well then - do you know me yet?

[jtsisyoda]

Next week, we explore Enigma's (in)ability to take a hint, in part 3 of 2,319 of "Enigma's Life and Mind: I Am An Original! A Very Special Documentary by Ken Burns (with Enigma_Nova)"

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by jtsisyoda
Poly Broadcasting paid for part 2 of 2,319. Why'd you go back to the Prologue? We want part 2!

What? 2319?
WHO THE HECK CUT MY SHOW BY 90%?
I want ANSWERS people... ANSWERS.
(Oh wait, I'm the questioner, that's my job )
It must be to do with this supply and demand.
I can supply more Enigma than you Demand.

...

NO THAT DOES NOT MEAN I'M CHEAP!

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by jtsisyoda
Next week, we explore Enigma's (in)ability to take a hint, in part 3 of 2,319 of "Enigma's Life and Mind: I Am An Original! A Very Special Documentary by Ken Burns (with Enigma_Nova)"

And shortly after, we have an -Extra special- Enigma documentary.
It's called: "Enigma's life and Mind: The Postcount."

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by jtsisyoda
Where's my bouncer?! Throw these whining sophists out of my trash talking thread.

Sorry, but this thread has been

[jtsisyoda]

*ahem*
You're putting a SCIENTIST in the same class as Accountants, Lawyers and Arts students?

We're -so- much better than you all.
Name some famous scientists from history
Great! Now name some famous Lawyers, Economists, IT professionals, Engineers...

The Wright Brothers were a couple mechanics.
Einstein did his best work when he was a clerk.
Cincinnatus led the Roman army, declined the Empororship, and went back to being a farmer.

[Enigma_Nova]

How many of said people had a university education?

[jtsisyoda]

Bruce Lee was a dishwasher (at least in the movie ).

And I don't know, look it up yourself!