Rio starts ID checks on US flyers

[Sava]

berz... as I pointed out... the "small difference" has to do with foreign policy and projection of power...

US imperialism has outdone anything the Nazis could have hoped for...

13 colonies... to the entire annihilation of the Native American culture as it existed... expanding to the present day "continental" US. Hawaii, Phillipines, Panama, other South Pacific islands... Cuba was in the cross-hairs, but the Spanish kept us in check, then the Soviets... Puerto Rico...

WWI, yeah, we came to the aid of allies and other free societies...

WW2... came to the aid of free societies again... although we provoked Japan into attacking us...

Korea , trying to exert influence in the region... trying to stop communism (btw if communism is so flawed, why did we need to fight to stop it? capitalists never explain this)

Vietnam US kills over 4 million in another vain attempt at projecting power...

then there's South and Latin America... propping up dictators, supporting violent revolutions against democratically elected leaders that didn't want to play ball...

then there's the mideast and the muslim world... we supported Momar (our buddy in Libya), messed around in Iran until it blew up in our faces... same with Iraq...

This imperialism in the muslim world reminds me so much of 19th Century Africa... the Christians and capitalists were going to spread "civilized" culture to Africa... the different powers used that mantra to justify raping, exploiting, and colonizing the continent... and look where Africa is now. The Muslim world is much different. They are going to resist Democracy and westernization to the death... this is another crusade, but we don't call it that.

IMO, that's not too different from Nazi Germany... Hitler wanted to spread his master race across the globe... America wants to spread it's culture and impose it's economic superiority over the world, damn the innocent casualties.

Clear enough for you? I don't give a **** what Rome, or the Soviets, or anybody else did... it doesn't make America's policies just... it doesn't make us morally superior just because the US isn't killing people in factory death houses.

[Berzerker]

UR, you've changed the issue from mass murder and mass starvation to "war criminal". Can you quote me accusing Stalin or Mao of being war criminals? I said their behavior ranks among the top 10 crimes of the 20th century.

Mao had never intended to be evil, but sometimes very nasty effects occurred as a consequences of his actions, such as the Cultural Revolution.

Holy Sh!t... How many did he starve? How many did he send to "re-education" centers? How many did he slaughter? Yeah, "nasty effects" of the "cultural revolution". And Stalin was as bad or worse, between these two SOBs, 10's of millions lost their lives. Strange, there's a huge outcry directed at holocaust deniers but when it comes to these thugs...well...strange indeed. Btw, wasn't Mao the leader of the Chinese communists in the war against the Chinese nationalists (now Taiwanese)?

Sava, we'll let the audience decide.

There is a "very small difference" between the Nazis and America.

America is worse than the Roman Empire.

And these gems were about America over the last ~60 years.

[Sava]

And these gems were about America over the last ~60 years.

since 1776 doofus

unless America was 13 colonies 60 years ago...

IIRC, Benjamin Franklin said "[I] believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years and can only end in despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupt as to need despotic government, being incapable of any other. . .”

Despite the presence of some good leaders and a population of people who are generally good and moral, America continues to grow and become the most powerful Empire on teh face of the planet... ever...

now, by disagreeing with me, you are saying Nazi Germany or Rome was a bigger Empire that the US... and you are wrong.... as usual...

[notyoueither]

You can't keep a storey straight from start to finish, can you, Sava?

we supported Momar (our buddy in Libya)

That's a very good bit. I think it should be preserved.

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Stalin has kept war prisoners in terrible conditions and for an outrageous time after peace had been signed. German civilians suffered from brutalities as they were being conquered. And needless to say, Stalin's absurd decisions as megalomaniac paranoid murderer lead to the useless death of millions sviet soldiers.

As for Mao being a war criminal, I indeed fail to see in which war he was directly involved, except WW2 against the Japanese. I don't think Mao standed out as being particularly evil at that time.

Mao isnot than war criminal like Stalin, Bush, Blair, and Hilter.
Unless you count China entering the war on North Korea side. First we have troop on the boarder with China an then we have one of our top general make threat about invadeing China an useing nuclear weapons on China. America use biowarfare on China and China have the proof of this to pove it in an Internation Court, other nations saw the evidence like Canada, France and USSR.

[notyoueither]

Oh Lord, the loons are out in full force.

Blame it on Rio.

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Oh, Good Lord. The door of the looney bin must be open.

Not really. Germany was than anti-semtic nation since the middle age. The Nazie where not the only party which where anti-jewish, all the parties in Germany where basic anti-jewish to get the vote they needed to win electon.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Holy Sh!t... How many did he starve? How many did he send to "re-education" centers? How many did he slaughter? Yeah, "nasty effects" of the "cultural revolution". And Stalin was as bad or worse, between these two SOBs, 10's of millions lost their lives.

Sorry, I don't argue with sound-bites.

Originally posted by Berzerker
Strange, there's a huge outcry directed at holocaust deniers but when it comes to these thugs...well...strange indeed.

Strange indeed, to draw even a parallel between these.

Originally posted by Berzerker
Btw, wasn't Mao the leader of the Chinese communists in the war against the Chinese nationalists (now Taiwanese)?

The point of this being?

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I don't think my image is stored anywhere near my name in places I don't want, such as buses and supermarkets.
Besides, I'm 99% sure nobody stored my fingerpirnts, unless the French police goes against the law and secretly stores them.

If the French are ever to be IDed in such a way in American airports, I'll seriously reconsider any possible trip there. For me, such a breach in privacy is very serious.

When I have to vist my father in pirson they took my fingerprint but only the pirson system have them.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Sorry, I don't argue with sound-bites.

But that's how you primarily argue.

Strange indeed, to draw even a parallel between these.

This is his main point. Didn't you get it?

The point of this being?

Why didn't you respond to the other post or the rest of the one you quoted here? Why nitpick? If you think that he is wrong, it should be much easier to confront him directly. It is strange, because you always complain that other people don't debate correctly, but the above response is a common tactic for you.

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by DanS


Stop pulling things out of your ass. Fact is, nobody knows who did it.

They do have than name of than america who worked in our biowarfare department who is than fundie Christian and that why he isnot behind bar right now.

[Berzerker]

Btw Spiffor, I believe when geography and population is considered, the Emirs of Kuwait have let more Palestinian refugees settle in their country than any other in the region.
Those evil bastards!

Sava -

berz... as I pointed out... the "small difference" has to do with foreign policy and projection of power...

US imperialism has outdone anything the Nazis could have hoped for...

Oh, now the "clarifications" are coming from the backtracker.
We weren't debating the past 240 years. This is what you said to trigger the debate:

he's right

the difference between Nazi Germany and America is very small... both are corporatist states... it's only that Hitler wanted to kill everyone else... the elite in America would rather have economic slavery.

Obviously "corporatist America" refers only to that period when corporations existed and exhibited alleged control of the nation. Being generous, that would mean you're talking about the 1890's on...

Here was your first "clarification":

I specified that is the difference...

Which does nothing more than refer back to your first assertion which makes no mention of imperialism, the 18th century, foreign policy, etc...

And here is your second "clarification" at the bottom of page 2:

yes, as a world superpower... the US is more destructive than even the Roman Empire was... stop living in denial

That's funny, it really is. But the US did not become a superpower until WWII , so why are you now bringing up the 18th and 19th centuries?

I'm on page 4 now looking for more "clarifications"...
Ah, was this it?

and by no means did I say "Nazi Germay = USA". In fact, the two are quite different. I was simply pointing out that they are similar in some aspects, and that we should strive to not be like them.

Sounds more like an ambiguous retraction than a clarification.

I'm CLARIFYING because you obviously misunderstood what I said

Oh, it wasn't a retraction? Then what exactly did you clarify other than your ability to contradict yourself?

berz... as I pointed out... the "small difference" has to do with foreign policy and projection of power...

US imperialism has outdone anything the Nazis could have hoped for...

Ah, page 5 and we have the clarification now. So the Nazis slaughtered millions of foreigners when projecting their power and would have slaughtered millions more before getting stomped by all their enemies. How many did "corporatist America" kill? And no, I don't mean in defense of people the Nazis and commies were trying to conquer. Well, there was the Spanish-American War but not many people were killed in that one and it isn't like the Spanish weren't butchers. Then there would be...hmm... Gee... I don't know... Tell us, Sava, what were all these crimes committed by corporatist America that constitute a "very small difference" with the Nazis?

13 colonies... to the entire annihilation of the Native American culture as it existed... expanding to the present day "continental" US. Hawaii, Phillipines, Panama, other South Pacific islands... Cuba was in the cross-hairs, but the Spanish kept us in check, then the Soviets... Puerto Rico...

Now now, Sava, you're backtracking again. You're including history that doesn't fall under "corporatist America". And that "Spanish kept us in check" bit is *******

since 1776 doofus

At no point in this thread did I refer to all of US history, just the past ~60 years, you know the time frame when we can compare the Nazis, commies and the USA as I stated way back on the first page, here:

Hell, the US has liberated dozens of countries in the last 60 years... Do you want to blame the corporations for that too?

See? We were debating the behavior of the US over the last ~60 years, not 240 years. My comment about what the US has done over the last ~60 years is what started you on your crusade about evil America so don't pretend we've been debating the 18th and 19th centuries now. It took you to page 5 to start in on all of US history, quite a "clarification" there.

now, by disagreeing with me, you are saying Nazi Germany or Rome was a bigger Empire that the US... and you are wrong.... as usual...

Hmm... I don't know about that. Where are our vast holdings? Puerto Rico? Guam? Rome was limited by logistics, not by desire. And the Nazis...well... their 3rd Reich lasted ~13 years, hardly enough time to build an empire but what they did conquer was quite impressive nonetheless. The US had ~%99 of its territory by the time it became "corporatist" and I hope you aren't suggesting vast open spaces with extremely small population densities are in the same category as the heavily occupied lands the Nazis and Romans were intent on taking.

UR -

Sorry, I don't argue with sound-bites.

Or facts

Strange indeed, to draw even a parallel between these.

You don't think the slaughter of 10's of millions by Stalin and Mao are not "parallel" to Hitler's holocaust? Maybe the Chinese and Russian victims of these criminals just don't get enough attention in the media...

The point of this being?

I believe you doubted his involvement in any war.

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I don't touch many things the police can identify as being touched be me.

Finding fingerprint mean nothing at as evindence all it found in a public place like than mall of supermarket. It found on the safe door then it evidence.

[CharlesBHoff]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Spiffor is going to say that any liberal democracy is preferable to any potentate, and many people would agree.

Hilter was voted into power by the Germany people. The Germany mitilary never liked Hilter much than they have to cancled 3 or 4 coup against Hilter in the 1930's as Hilter approval rateing with the Germany people was 98% plus. The Germany troop support Hilter than if inmpossible to do than coup without troop support.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Pekka
it's clearly just retaliation.

Duh.

But so what? Retaliation is fine. It's not like they're locking up US citizens, just harassing them to the same extent that Brazilian citizens are harassed when they enter the US.

It's a way of sending a message of displeasure with US government policy both to Washington and to US citizens.

[Zylka]

They do have than name of than america who worked in our biowarfare department who is than fundie Christian and that why he isnot behind bar right now.

Ohhh, great. I can tell this guy is gonna last long

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Some countries on the exemption list are integrating intelligence (and perhaps security) efforts with the US, I would think. That would be the case with Canada.

It is not necessarily because of shared intelligence and security efforts, but because of risk assessment. I would assume, as DanS mentioned earlier, that all countries on the Visa Waiver list are also on the "we don't fingerprint you" list.

As I recall, the Visa Waiver list was based on both security concerns (i.e. Norway is okay, SA isn't) and on immigration concerns (Canada is okay, Mexico isn't). IIRC one of the key requirements was that the previous calendar year saw a lower than 3% rejection rate at the border for citizens of the country in question travelling to the US.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Spiffor

They did however intentially blow up a public building in Kansas city killing more than a hundred people (all intentionally

Oklahoma city?

And it's about 215 IIRC

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by DanS


Stop pulling things out of your ass. Fact is, nobody knows who did it.

Most likely a US citizen, though...

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Sikander
Is Oncle Boris a French version of Ned?

Unfortunately he's one of mine.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by DanS
Btw, as I understand it, those who are not required to have visas will be required to give their fingerprint and get a picture later this year. So it's non-discriminatory.

I doubt that.

If you start fingerprinting all Canadians at the border there'll be hell to pay. We'll definitely retaliate in kind, and things will move a lot slower.

Bush will have to say goodbye to his chances of winning any of the Northern states in 2004 if that happens.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Not complying with the Geneva Convention is bad, but that doesn't automatically make him a war criminal.

Russia was not a signatory to the GC during WWII

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by CharlesBHoff


Mao isnot than war criminal like Stalin, Bush, Blair, and Hilter.
Unless you count China entering the war on North Korea side. First we have troop on the boarder with China an then we have one of our top general make threat about invadeing China an useing nuclear weapons on China. America use biowarfare on China and China have the proof of this to pove it in an Internation Court, other nations saw the evidence like Canada, France and USSR.

Please please explain how Tony Blair can be put in the same league as Stalin and Hitler, where is teh intentional mass muredr and genocide, go on where is it.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Zylka


Ohhh, great. I can tell this guy is gonna last long

He's wackier than you.

[Berzerker]

UR, it was Charles b Hoff who doubted Mao was involved in wars (aside from Korea).

[Zylka]

Oncle B is Canadian?

[KrazyHorse]

Yah. He's a provincemate of mine, apparently.

[Zylka]

HAHAHAHA who would have ****ing guessed. Man is Ontario ever needing another Zylka to whip things into competitive shape!!

[KrazyHorse]

Why Ontario?

Quebecer...

[Zylka]

Oh that's right. Montreal?