Top Ten World Powers

[ravagon]

Originally posted by notyoueither

Even the Indians, who for reasons of their own go their own way, maintian links with the Imperial power and wouldn't trade English or cricket for anything. They are misguided in that cricket bit, but nobody's perfect.

Don't knock Indian cricket right now. They just came yay close to knocking over the last few Australian wickets and taking the series.

[Oncle Boris]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Flambe from the French is a matter of course.

Seriously, you would probably be insulting many people in the world if you told them "see, the British brought you railroads, textile mills, postal services, and organized public works". They'd rather have done it themselves.

And back on topic: I think France's influence is greater than Britain, because they are bossing the EU, and because they are not overshadowed by the US.

[notyoueither]

I said nothing about what the British brought them. I simply mentioned that Britain had many, willing, members of her Empire. Why do you suppose that was?

Which is the world's largest liberal democracy? And why do you think they are the way they are?

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by notyoueither
As your empire of fear crumbled around you,

Speaking of which....Hasn't anyone noticed the trend for the tourch of the "Empire of Fear"?

London ----> Berlin ----> Moscow ----> Washington DC

So where will it land next?

London---->Berlin
577 (580)

Berlin----->Moscow
1006 (1000)

Moscow------>Washington
4872 (4870)

I see something.....x80, x00, x70...the next one will be x00 then.
Now lets look at this....5xx, 10xx, and then 48xx. 5xx*2=10xx, and 10*4.8=48xx....
So we just multiply 48xx by 7.6 and we get 365xx (rounded).

[Impaler[WrG]]

Has no one mentioned Brazil yet?

Its economy is the size of Canada (Purchasing Power Adjusted, which I think is the fair way to compare GDP) their population is large and peacefull, their goverment stable their military adiquite. They exert a great deal of influence over their Continent. (Also their weomen are HOT!!)

Its a Regional Power, on the same line of thought. Nigeria in East Africa, South Africa in Southern Africa, Saudi Arabia/Egypt in the Arab world (and globaly if you consider Oil). The level of influence a county has is determined a great deal by who their neibors are. Canada would be a much more influential Country if it was not right next to the US. Regional Powers can exert influence over their region which is equal to if not greater then even the top global superpower can exert. And because a Global Power needs regional powers to be friendly with them, the Global power can often not use the full measure of their power in oposition to a regional power in that lesser powers sphere of influence lest they risk offending it.

My list goes as follows - Note that I put a high premium on countries that routinly TELL others what to do and then back it up, many nations tend to stick to themselves and dont influence others to the extent they could if they were as bossy as other countries. Conversly how much the rest of the world CARES what another Country thinks has a great deal to do with who is influential, this effect is very pronouced when if comes to France, some how the french have tricked much of the non english speaking world into thinking they are influential, and low and behond this self fuffiling proficy dose infact make France influential because France acts influential and everyone else just eat it up. Ironicaly the more we complain about France the more influential we make it.


1. USA (enough said)
2. UK (long historic influce and recent willingness to use its power in partnership with US, Perm Security Council)
3. France (long historic influence and willingness to use its power in oposition to the US, Perm Security Council)
4. Russia (lingering influence from USSR days, significant military power, Perm Security Council)
5. Japan (second largest Economy on Earth, major cultural influence on Asia, lingering effects of WW2 and resent Economic stagnation reduce their influence)
6. China (Rapidly growing Economy, Huge Potential means they are being treated as more powerfull then they ACTUALY are because we know they soon WILL be)
7. Germany (strong Economy, significant EU influence moderated by the fact that the EU dosent have much influence or military strength, also no Security Council)

8-10 NONE, their are only 7 Global super Powers in my opinon so you cant have a top 10. A list of 10 would simply be an atempt to deside what the top 3 Regional Powers are and stick them at the bottom of the list.

Regional Powers - In no particular order as each is the top dog only in its local area.

Brazil, Nigeria, South Africa, Mexico, Iran, India, Australia, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey

[notyoueither]

I agree re Brazil. They will surprise people, I think.

[Nubclear]

Aren't they supposedly controlled by the Illuminati?

[Ben Kenobi]

c) You bring up a point I've brought up before. Why should we give them cash if they're going to treat us like ****? No reason I can see. **** 'em.

Agreed. I'm glad we did not send troops to Iraq. I just disagree with how Chretien handled the whole situation.

As for NYE, I should link to that in my sig. After all I used to have a british calvary avatar.

One King, One Flag, One Empire.

[notyoueither]

Don't forget the Fleet, that bit had an important part in Canadian history. It's actually the reason why we paid for RN dreadnaughts, and did not construct our own navy. That slogan was not just a jingo.

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
GROSS PRODUCT IN YEAR 2001
(billions of dollars)
1 United States $10,171
2 Japan 4,245
3 Germany 1,874
4 United Kingdom 1,406
CALIFORNIA 1,392
5 France 1,303
6 China 1,159
7 Italy 1,091
8 Canada 677
9 Mexico 618
10 Spain 577

We are number ten!!!

[OliverFA]

About China, it is overestimated or not depending what are you exactly measuring. The best definition for China is "a giant with mud's feet". Their regime and the tight control it had over the country allows their rulers to destinate enormous parts of their GDP to "great projects" like the spatial programme or the nuclear programme while their people are starving. So, when you scratch China's surface it is not as much as it seems.

[OliverFA]

By the way, Why is everyone forgetting Switzerland? A very strong economy, top R+D and an army of 500,000 people.

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
And back on topic: I think France's influence is greater than Britain, because they are bossing the EU, and because they are not overshadowed by the US.

Wrong! They are destroying the EU. Lot of former pro EU people (and European governments) changed their mind after seeing how France pretend to convert the EU in their own empire.

[C0ckney]

oliver, don't take boris seriously, you know he's wrong, i know he's wrong, everybody else knows he's wrong, so there's no need to respond to the rubbish he writes

[Ecthy]

1914:

Germany
USA
UK
France
Japan
Austria
Russia
Turkey
Argentina

[MrFun]

Originally posted by notyoueither
See, the problem part with the British for all the rest of you tossers, is the Brits managed to create an empire who actually wanted and want to belong to it, even if they think it outmoded and too much of a burden today.

Even the Indians, who for reasons of their own go their own way, maintian links with the Imperial power and wouldn't trade English or cricket for anything. They are misguided in that cricket bit, but nobody's perfect.

So, go ahead comrade, have fun. As your empire of fear crumbled around you, you can think forlorn thoughts about how someone else actually got it right long before you tried, and their achivements will be remembered long after the dead husk of your tyranny is forgotten in the ash heaps of history.

Oh yes, and I fully expect some Aussie to flame this post.

Yeah, because we all know how South Africa was a lovely example of freedom and liberty in that part of the British Empire.

[C0ckney]

maybe you should read about south africa after 1910 before you put all the blame on us mrfun...

[Arrian]

1. USA
2. UK
3. China
4. France
5. Germany
6. Russia
7. Japan
8. Canada
9. India
10. Notimportantenoughistan

Just couldn't come up with a worthy #10.

-Arrian

[DAVOUT]

A dynamic view

2014

1. EU
2. USA
3. CHINA
4. JAPAN
5. RUSSIA

2019

1. EU
2. CHINA
3. USA
4. JAPAN
5. RUSSIA

2024

1. EU
2. CHINA
3. JAPAN
4. USA
5. RUSSIA

2029

1. EU
2. CHINA
3. JAPAN
4. RUSSIA
5. USA
6. CANADA

2034

1. EU
2. CHINA
3. JAPAN
4. RUSSIA
5. CANADA
6. USA
7. BRAZIL

2039

1. EU
2. CHINA
3. JAPAN
4. RUSSIA
5. CANADA
6. BRAZIL
7. USA
8. INDIA

2044

1. EU
2. CHINA
3. JAPAN
4. RUSSIA
5. CANADA
6. BRAZIL
7. INDIA
8. USA
9. NIGERIA

2049

1. EU
2. CHINA
3. JAPAN
4. RUSSIA
5. CANADA
6. BRAZIL
7. INDIA
8. NIGERIA
9. USA
10. TONGA

[Ollie Oliver]

Mordor.

[DanS]

@ davout

[lord of the mark]

I think y'all are underestimating China.

1. Military - the only state that the US military really worries about
2. Force projection - no they cant send a couple of battalions of paras to some african hellhole like France or UK can, but whats that really worth to France and UK? China CAN project force on the Korean peninsula, in Southeast Asia, and potentially against Russia.
3. Diplomatic - important influence all across east asia, which collectively is THE most important and growing part of the planet. Influence in south asia, and central asia. Yes they dont assert themselves on the UNSC like France does, thats cause theyre too busy building up their real power, not overplaying a weak and declining hand.
4. The power of their market - their large and growing market makes them particularly important to global industry.


Y'all are overestimating Israel - economy well below 10, diplomatically relatively isolated, military strong WHEN fully mobilized, which they cant be for very long. Doesnt belong on the top 10. Australia would be a better pick, for its economy, resources, strategic position, etc.

Brazil definitely a better pick than Saudi, and even South Africa is worth a mention as a regional power.

Sheer size of economy would out Italy in or near the 10, i suspect a bias against Italy because of internal political weakness and no recent military successes.

[Arrian]

Italy was going to be my #10, but yeah their political instability/military weakness led to me putting "notimportantenoughistan" in their place.

-Arrian

[BeBro]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

2. Force projection - no they cant send a couple of battalions of paras to some african hellhole like France or UK can, but whats that really worth to France and UK? China CAN project force on the Korean peninsula, in Southeast Asia, and potentially against Russia.

But that´s not really the meaning of force projection. Every country with a mentionable army is able to move forces into regions at its borders or a bit further. What you say for China goes for Russia, India, and Pakistan as well. But not everyone can project force around the world in an acceptable timeframe, and with forces that can actually DO something there (heavy armor, air mobile forces, air power etc.). And the UK has just shown that it can send more than some battalions into the ME. I´d assume similar abilities for France.

When China attacked Vietnam in 1979 they had lots of difficulties, mildly expressed - some count this as complete failure. I´m not convinced that they´d do a lot better now.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by BeBro


But that´s not really the meaning of force projection. Every country with a mentionable army is able to move forces into regions at its borders or a bit further. What you say for China goes for Russia, India, and Pakistan as well. But not everyone can project force around the world in an acceptable timeframe, and with forces that can actually DO something there (heavy armor, air mobile forces, air power etc.). And the UK has just shown that it can send more than some battalions into the ME. I´d assume similar abilities for France.

When China attacked Vietnam in 1979 they had lots of difficulties, mildly expressed - some count this as complete failure. I´m not convinced that they´d do a lot better now.

with all due respect to our gallant British allies, they have sent about one division to the ME, with logistical support from the US, via friendly Kuwait. I assume China could do the same, if they chose. Indeed, by that standard Romania, Bulgaria, Spain, Dominican Republic, etc can all move at least some units around. I assume that was is meant by force projection is the ability to move ones own troops around without logistical support from allies, and where necessary via air drop or amphibious landing without assistance from any local state. UK and France may have that ability, but its not large scale, and not all that politically important.

Yup, China lost to NVA, who, at the time, were considered among the best infantry in the world. And who relied on the economic and logistic support of the SU, a superpower. The threat presented by China is a principle motive for VN's reconciliation with the US, yet one more example of Chinas importance in the Pacific sphere.

[DanS]

with all due respect to our gallant British allies, they have sent about one division to the ME, with logistical support from the US, via friendly Kuwait. I assume China could do the same, if they chose.

On the timeline that we had before the war? Nope. Don't think so. You are forgetting that logistics are fairly complicated.

With the UK, we knew they had good quality as well.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by C0ckney
maybe you should read about south africa after 1910 before you put all the blame on us mrfun...

My point is that superficial glorification of the British empire ignores the crimes that have been committed against various groups of people.

Oh -- I forgot to mention how British settlers in Australia hunted down aboriginals like they were game animals.

[notyoueither]

A bit full of yourself today, are you not, MrFun?

I did not say that nothing bad ever happened in the Empire. I was trading barbs with the comrade.

[MrFun]

fine -- carry on

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I was trading barbs with the comrade.

The Soviet Union was more evil than the British Empire