I don't really understand about Dean.

[The Mad Monk]

Neither Gore nor Clinton want a Democrat victory this time around -- hence their candidates of choice.

[JohnT]

In my opinion, Dean should go Left and stay there.

In talking to my wife yesterday I said that the Democrats are in danger of becoming akin to 1970s-era Republicans - politicians who say "Me too, but not as much." It isn't until the Repubs moved right (Reagan-Gingrich) that a truly discernable difference between the two parties became apparent for the first time since the '50s. Now the Democrats have to go through the same painful process... and I'd prefer it to be sooner rather than later.

Why? Because difference of opinion is good, because change is good, and a world where everybody kinda, sorta, holds the same opinion is a world of stagnation and paralyzation, a place where boldness recedes and solutions are not based upon ideas but upon friendships.

The worst thing that can happen to the Democratic primary is for Lieberman (or another Bush-lite) candidate to win. And it won't begin to be rejuvinated until they decide to re-energize their base and stop being Conservative-Lite, as the Repubs did in the 80s/early 90s when they decided to be (or claim to be) truly "conservative" rather than Liberal-Lite.

However, I don't think that Dean will win the election if he follows the above strategy, but it can be something the Dems can build on, rather than sitting around saying "What went wrong? Why, we're just not as popular as those other guys - let's act even more like them!"

[KrazyHorse]

Good read. What the Left (including me) has been saying for years.

[Kuciwalker]

I have one criticism of this thread: STOP USING QUOTE MARKS TO QUOTE THINGS

There's a reason we have a [q] tag

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ned
Why would the other candidates move their support to Clark?

He is a Republican, after all.

So was Clinton, essentially. The best moderate Republican president we've had in decades.

[JohnT]

So was Clinton, essentially. The best moderate Republican president we've had in decades.

And the man did wonders for the Repubs and squat for the Dems. I think, in terms of the Democratic Party at least, that Bill Clinton is the perfect example of what's wrong with them: His "me too, but not as much" conservatism has led the Dems to believe that is the way to go.... unfortunately, they don't have the charm or the political skill to pull it off. And while Bill Clinton might've been good for Bill Clinton, he hasn't really been good for the Democratic Party precisely for the reason I articulated above.

[Guynemer]

JohnT, those were two of the more insightful posts I've read in a while, especially on this subject. And certainly coming from a non-liberal.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by JohnT
And the man did wonders for the Repubs and squat for the Dems. I think this, in terms of the Democratic Party at least, that Bill Clinton is the perfect example of what's wrong with them: His "me too, but not as much" conservatism has led the Dems to believe that is the way to go.... unfortunately, they don't have the charm or the political skill to pull it off. And while Bill Clinton might've been good for Bill Clinton, he hasn't really been good for the Democratic Party precisely for the reason I articulated above.

I certainly wouldn't argue. Frankly, I think Clinton's worst legacy wrt the Democrats is his crony Terry McAuliffe running the DNC. He's a complete knee-biter, and should have been run out on a rail after the 2002 midterm elections.

That, and the Clintons' certain behind-the-scenes operating to thwart Dean, are two of the biggest problems with the Dems right now.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


I certainly wouldn't argue. Frankly, I think Clinton's worst legacy wrt the Democrats is his crony Terry McAuliffe running the DNC. He's a complete knee-biter, and should have been run out on a rail after the 2002 midterm elections.

That, and the Clintons' certain behind-the-scenes operating to thwart Dean, are two of the biggest problems with the Dems right now.

IOW, he's not all bad.

[TCO]

NAFTA was good too...

[Capt Dizle]

I think the only problem for Bush now is unemployment levels. He has to get that turned around but if he does, he is unbeatable. Landslide.

Looking ahead I'll peg Edwards as a possible VP nominee and Mrs. Clinton's main opponent for the White House next time round.

[JohnT]

Thanks for the props, Guynemer.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by TCO
NAFTA was good too...

[Berzerker]

Howard Dean - Affirmative Action for thee, but not for me.

[chequita guevara]

Lemme just toss this into the pot.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...dia/index.html

One staple of news and opinion stories that cast Dean as headed for a McGovern-style drubbing is a fair-seeming grounding in Democrats' worries that Dean can't win. But it's worth noting that such stories almost never name these Democrats -- except the other candidates for the nomination -- who are allegedly wringing their hands over Dean. For its 2,800-word cover story last week, Newsweek found just one for an on-the-record quote: former Clinton aide James Carville. Syndicated columnist Novak filled an entire Dec. 22 dispatch about the "Dean dilemma" by referring vaguely to "thoughtful Democrats," "a sage Democratic practitioner," "a party loyalist" and "Democratic savants," all anonymous, who were all sick about Dean's surge. Novak never bothered to tell readers if any of those unnamed Democrats had ties to Dean's campaign competitors.

[Boris Godunov]

A recent poll among Democrats said they were equally comfortable with Dean or Clark being the nominee, both easily beating out the other Dems. This is where the Dems will kill themselves, by laying a foundation of "unelectibility" during the primaries that will come back to sting later on.

[chequita guevara]

Betcha Dean crushes Bush.

[Boris Godunov]

I'll put $50 on Bush. So either way, I can have something to celebrate.

[Guynemer]

"Crushes"?

Not likely. I think he has a good chance to win, roughly 50/50, but no way anybody gets crushed in November--barring a last-minute revealation of cannibalism and virgin sacrifice.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Betcha Dean crushes Bush.

I'll take that bet. 10$ on Bush. This whining from his campaign about people attacking him is starting to get on my nerves anyway.

[chequita guevara]

$60 profit easy!

[DinoDoc]

I'll hold you to that, che.

[Guynemer]

I might take that bet too; when you say "crush", what are we talking about here? What's your point spread? Is it electoral votes or popular votes?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I'll take that bet. 10$ on Bush. This whining from his campaign about people attacking him is starting to get on my nerves anyway.

What are you talking about? Today's the first time he's complained about the other candidates attacking him so much.

[chequita guevara]

On the other hand the Bushies have been complaining about angry Democrats for over a month now.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
What are you talking about? Today's the first time he's complained about the other candidates attacking him so much.

It's been going on since at least the 30th: http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...ean.democrats/

I don't make this stuff up people.

[Boris Godunov]

DD, that's not Dean "whining" or even complaining about attacks against him. It's him expressing a viewpoint that there's too much infighting going on among Democrats in general in the election so far. That's called taking the high road, not whining.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Guynemer
I might take that bet too; when you say "crush", what are we talking about here? What's your point spread? Is it electoral votes or popular votes?

54/46 Dean/Bush in the popular vote, but closer in the electoral because of all those unpopulated red states.

[Guynemer]

I'll take Bush + 5 percentage points for $20.

[Boris Godunov]

Did those numbers come to you in a dream, vision or drug-induced hallucination, che?