tolerant discussion - Page 2

vmxa1 · February 13, 2004, 03:20

"I win most of my games with B1150-F battleships, which have nine HV ENV Fusion Beams and Class III Shields, among other things. They're all I need to win the game. There's also the "Spin the Guardian" Titan, but those are just for victory points..."

That is not very useful to me. I do not know what the designation B1150-F means.

Never built a gyro in my life and pretty much never used fusion beams.

The question was what kind of a game are you tlaking about?
I know some players that only use lasers. I have won in less than 70 turns without ever using a beam of any kind and researched nothing. So of course you can get by with the tech you mentioned.

It just does not give me any useful information as I have no idea of the game settings.

Personally I prefer to drag games out until I have researched all of the tech in the game. It is just a preference, not a requirement.

Brutalisk · February 13, 2004, 06:30

Quote:

"Never built a gyro in my life and pretty much never used fusion beams."

Even thoguh there r other areas that I disagree with Sparky, atleast he touched upon the gyros... and I am amazed that there are so many people both here and in the kali chat that don't know about the gyros...

And sparky's explanation of the tolerant pick in terms of the size population is "more" correct. But whether lithovore is better than tolerant or not.. well... tolerant works well with certain other picks and while lithovore might be a little more versatile, I do think tolerant's specialty is difficult to overcome when paired up with unification.

vmxa1 · February 13, 2004, 13:27

What do you mean "not know about gyros"? We know they were over powered as were plasma cannons, but they tweaked both in a patch.

What I know about gyros is I will not research them over interial stabilizers.

Admiral Sparky · February 13, 2004, 15:27

Meanwhile, I've never put Inertial Stabilizers on a ship, for the simple reason that I win the game before enemy beam weapons do any noticeable damage, making Heavy Armor and such a much better use of space. Although the Psilon battlestations with Ion Pulse Cannons are tough nuts to crack...

Brutalisk · February 13, 2004, 15:49

Well, I believe that even with the changes, plasma cannons are still the msot powerful beam weapon out there by far....

The real change they should have made to it, in addition to the changes already made, would have been to lower its maximum damage considerably (below the phasor's max dmg).

The changes they brought to gyros were quite effective, however, what I was talking about is that msot players in this forum and the kali chat seem oblivious as to why gyros are so dangerous in the first place....

Admiral Sparky · February 13, 2004, 16:54

A Plasma Cannon and an AF disruptor of equal mount will do equal amounts of damage at point-blank range to an unshielded target (30x4 versus 40x3). Before the patch, and with full miniaturization, an AF Disruptor took up 3x the space of a Plasma Cannon of equal mount; the patch made Plasmas take up by 250% of the space they did previously, making them still slightly more effective than AF Disruptors. However, when you take shields and distance dissipation into account, the AF Disruptor quickly triumphs.

P-K · February 14, 2004, 06:38

Sparky :

I cant see ur last word about which is better : tol vx lith.

PK

Whoha · February 14, 2004, 12:34

lith is better then tol, but tol is nothing to sneeze at.

Admiral Sparky · February 14, 2004, 16:24

Yeah, that's pretty much it.

P-K · February 14, 2004, 16:54

Lith can be better but definitly not when uni is enabled. The numbers are against lith. U got some proves or just only words ?

PK

Whoha · February 14, 2004, 20:27

demo lith then

Admiral Sparky · February 19, 2004, 16:30

Quote:

Originally posted by P-K
Lith can be better but definitly not when uni is enabled. The numbers are against lith.

Only if you're going the Industrialist Blitz route. You normally shouldn't be building warships until you can get MIRV for your nukes, by which time you should have Pollution Processors, making Tolerant little more than an overpriced Subterranean.

Sovereign · February 19, 2004, 17:03

I went Subterrean, Large HomeWorld, and I forgot what else. probably Warlord...

I got about 40 population points per Huge Gaia planets. That has gotta own.

Admiral Sparky · February 20, 2004, 04:28

45 with City Planning

Iasius · February 20, 2004, 04:46

42 is the maximum population for a huge gaia with city planning and biospheres and subterranean ...

P-K · February 20, 2004, 06:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Admiral Sparky
Only if you're going the Industrialist Blitz route. You normally shouldn't be building warships until you can get MIRV for your nukes, by which time you should have Pollution Processors, making Tolerant little more than an overpriced Subterranean.

What u mean by Industrialist Blitz route? I am sorry, but i am not a native usa speaker. Plz be so kind and write more about it. Thx.

I can only guess ur talking about early warships production, yes ? This is of course cool, however early ship producion is not what makes this race so good i think. Btw uni aqa 2 prod lr can build ships after polprocs and it is still better then uni lith.

PK

Brutalisk · February 20, 2004, 08:08

PK, while you are very competitive, you got a set strategy. That strategy bud, DOES have weaknesses

The fact that you keep working on your strategies though atleast tells me that unlike msot other kali-players, you can actually "adapt"...

In my recent return there, I noticed everyone following the same formula (esp in duels). A good formula yes, but the kali-players seem to have turned into a "stale" community in that respect with some exceptions...

Capt Dizle · February 20, 2004, 10:36

You folks talk about wining before this and before that. What settings are the default for all this talk?

Sovereign · February 20, 2004, 12:14

Kali? Whats that? Is it an online board or forum like Poly?

vmxa1 · February 20, 2004, 13:15

http://www.pixelexiq.com/moo2/

Sovereign · February 20, 2004, 16:23

Thanks, VXMA. You've been quite helpful the past month.

vmxa1 · February 20, 2004, 17:03

We aim to please.

Brutalisk · February 20, 2004, 21:49

Sovereign, your icon/avatar is from Alpha Centauri, right? I hate ALpha Centauri, almost as much as I lvoe Civilization. (yes the original)

Alpha Centauri is a living proof of how much you can SPOIL the best possible game in the world...

KALI is just the most practical way of playing multiplayer MOO II

Admiral Sparky · February 21, 2004, 09:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Iasius
42 is the maximum population for a huge gaia with city planning and biospheres and subterranean ...

The formula I used was 30 base + 10 from Subterranean + 5 from City planning = 45. However, I forgot that the base max on a Huge Gaia is actually 25, not 30. *smacks forehead*

vmxa1 · February 21, 2004, 14:07

I am glad you cleared that up, I was begining to wonder why I had never seen any planets over 42.

P-K · February 21, 2004, 18:27

In one of my games i ve found interesting bug. I was sub lith and built droids. My arid had 27 man just b4 i started to put droids there. I finished at 42 and i still could go easly for more.

I cant see any answer to my earlier question.

PK

Admiral Sparky · February 22, 2004, 03:21

Of course you couldmake more droids, the problem is they'd kill off your regular population to make room

P-K · February 22, 2004, 08:45

No no, they didnt killed my regular pop. I just puted them there from nearest bases. I had there 27 normal man plus droids. Ugly bug.

PK

Whoha · February 22, 2004, 13:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Brutalisk
Sovereign, your icon/avatar is from Alpha Centauri, right? I hate ALpha Centauri, almost as much as I lvoe Civilization. (yes the original)

Alpha Centauri is a living proof of how much you can SPOIL the best possible game in the world...

KALI is just the most practical way of playing multiplayer MOO II

why do you hate SMAC?

Brutalisk · February 22, 2004, 22:57

Well, let's take the tech tree as one of the many big flaws.

In Alpha Centauri, despite copying civilization, the techs lost their shine. There's 1000000000000000000000000 techs that offer no real significance. I love complexity but only NECESSARY complexity that adds to the game. I like DETAIL but only detail that ADDS to the game.

Alpha Centauri went too far. Upgrading the units became like nuisance if anything.

The graphics? Well, they sacrificed clarity for the sake of "better than civilization" graphics. Sorry, it doesn't do it for me.

The various ways/techs by which your bonuses are affected? It felt like going round the bush all the time.

Granted, I didn't put much time into Alpha Centauri, but it felt more like just rolling through the turns than anything else, as nothing would make my day, even building the wonders...

Well, maybe one day I might go back to it... but colonization and civilization its two predeccors are the games that amde it for me (astonishingly, i never got to play civ II and III).

The multiplayer option of civ (with civnet) doesn't seem to work too well ... which was something i was looking forward to, at the time it was introduced.

Why i haven't played games like civ ii and iii? Well , lack of time to sit down and explore new games.