Thread Tools
Old January 11, 2004, 05:04   #1
d=me
Prince
 
Local Time: 15:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 318
A new alpha centauri
Why don't firaxis or big huge games make a new alpha centauri that is a turn based stragety in the strategic level (country building) and real time on the battle field?
(like medieval tatoal war and or single player mode of battle for dune?)
d=me is offline  
Old January 11, 2004, 16:21   #2
Enigma_Nova
C4DG The Mercenary Team
Emperor
 
Enigma_Nova's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:58
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,988
Most historic battles took days. Very few took less than an hour.
The combat system would probably be turn-based too.

While I have seen something like this (UFO:Enemy Unknown) I'm not sure whether BH Games have the resources or whether Firaxis have the desire.
Enigma_Nova is offline  
Old January 11, 2004, 20:52   #3
d=me
Prince
 
Local Time: 15:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 318
That's unpleasant to hear, alpha centauri is such a good game.
d=me is offline  
Old January 11, 2004, 20:56   #4
SynthetGod8
Warlord
 
SynthetGod8's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 121
it would be cool, but what would be the point? these futuristic weapons have ranges of miles with little or no hand-to-hand combat. It's not even tactical combat (like in UFO). Think about modern combat these days. An unmanned spy-jet flies over an enemy position and takes a few pictures which it sends back to the leader. The leader determines the exact position of the enemy position (which, I might add, has no idea of what's coming), and orders the tanks, artillery, or aircraft to open fire on that position (which was pinpointed by GPS). So then that position is blasted into smitherines from miles away. Infantry only seem useful in urban areas.
So sure, while having something close up and brutal like Total War would not be practical (you try rendering miles and miles of terrain and then managing units that can actually shoot that far). I think it would be better to have a larger overhead view, where you can see all those miles at once and not have to be burdened by being so close to the ground.

I dunno... I'm rambling. If you can think of a better idea, I'd be happy to hear it (and maybe think of something new too)
__________________
It's really Synthetic God... I guess I didn't notice my own typo.
SynthetGod8 is offline  
Old January 12, 2004, 11:30   #5
Cookie Monster
King
 
Cookie Monster's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 1,310
They should make a new AC with the Civ3 engine. But workshops must remain, I love designing my own units too much to give that feature up.
__________________
signature not visible until patch comes out.
Cookie Monster is offline  
Old January 13, 2004, 14:23   #6
Illuminatus
staff
Apolyton Storywriters' GuildCivilization IV CreatorsACDG3 CMNsACDG3 Data AngelsACDG3 SpartansC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansC4WDG Team ApolytonAge of Nations TeamACDG3 Gaians
Provost
 
Local Time: 17:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,942
Quote:
Originally posted by Cookie Monster
They should make a new AC with the Civ3 engine
Nooooooooooo!
I want deformable game map - one of my favorite things in SMAC/X
__________________
SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
Illuminatus is offline  
Old January 13, 2004, 14:24   #7
Illuminatus
staff
Apolyton Storywriters' GuildCivilization IV CreatorsACDG3 CMNsACDG3 Data AngelsACDG3 SpartansC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansC4WDG Team ApolytonAge of Nations TeamACDG3 Gaians
Provost
 
Local Time: 17:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,942
Sorry. Double post.
__________________
SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
Illuminatus is offline  
Old January 13, 2004, 14:32   #8
Cookie Monster
King
 
Cookie Monster's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 1,310
Quote:
Originally posted by obstructor

Nooooooooooo!
I want deformable game map - one of my favorite things in SMAC/X
Oh yes I agree!

Some of the features of Civ3 would be nice though in SMAC/X. I still would like to be able to raise and lower the map though.
__________________
signature not visible until patch comes out.
Cookie Monster is offline  
Old January 13, 2004, 16:42   #9
Illuminatus
staff
Apolyton Storywriters' GuildCivilization IV CreatorsACDG3 CMNsACDG3 Data AngelsACDG3 SpartansC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansC4WDG Team ApolytonAge of Nations TeamACDG3 Gaians
Provost
 
Local Time: 17:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,942
As much as failure it is too me as a game Civ 3 has brought some good little tweaks. Support cost in gold - meaning that there is no home base - my favorite. Wonders that cannot be started in multiple instances or hurried in any way (other than great Leader) is my number two favorite. Culture as it is or strategic resources as they are however I wouldn`t like to see in SMAC/X since they are bad. Perhaps if they make it clearer in CIV3... And there is a SMAC 2...
__________________
SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
Illuminatus is offline  
Old January 13, 2004, 18:17   #10
Jamski
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG The Cybernetic Consciousness
Deity
 
Jamski's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
Posts: 13,229
Quote:
Support cost in gold - meaning that there is no home base - my favorite. Wonders that cannot be started in multiple instances or hurried in any way (other than great Leader) is my number two favorite.
The two worst things about Civ3 - are you mad?

-Jam
__________________
1) The crappy metaspam is an affront to the true manner of the artform. - Dauphin
That's like trying to overninja a ninja when you aren't a mammal. CAN'T BE DONE. - Kassi on doublecrossing Ljube-ljcvetko
Check out the ALL NEW Galactic Overlord Website for v2.0 and the Napoleonic Overlord Website or even the Galactic Captians Website Thanks Geocities!
Taht 'ventisular link be woo to clyck.
Jamski is offline  
Old January 13, 2004, 18:31   #11
The Mad Monk
Emperor
 
The Mad Monk's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Flyover Country
Posts: 4,659
I like the support in gold, can't stand the crippling of wonder-building.
__________________
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
The Mad Monk is offline  
Old January 14, 2004, 12:51   #12
Cookie Monster
King
 
Cookie Monster's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: New England
Posts: 1,310
Support cost in gold

Can't rush wonders Just need to get used to it.
__________________
signature not visible until patch comes out.
Cookie Monster is offline  
Old January 14, 2004, 13:27   #13
Bella Hella
Prince
 
Bella Hella's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: philly suburbs
Posts: 302
just wanted to chime in on liking the gold support cost and no home base in civ 3, too.

i rush wonders by starting to build a palace and then switching to the wonder once i discover the correct tech... everybody probably already knows this, though. still, i think it makes sense to not be able to rush a wonder in civ (except by using a leader of course). i think it's more "realistic."

i really thought culture was an awesome idea, too (at least for border expansion - it sucks when you conquer a base only to have it immediately defect). but i'm not sure how it would work with SMAC. since the factions are ideology-based, they would each have their own unique culture. i can't see a university base defecting to the believers, for example - what university citizen would find a religious culture better than a scientific one? one possibility for culture in SMAC is to occasionally lose a citizen to a different faction. he would then appear in the other faction's base and become a citizen there. like, you're playing the spartans. one of your bases is lacking in "conquer" facilities (no command center, no perimeter defense, etc.). one of your citizens gets fed up and defects to the nearest faction that has a base containing these facilities. *shrug* just a thought.

my favorite things in SMAC not found in civ are the design workshop(!!!), raising/lowering terrain, and sea colonies.
__________________
drones to the left of me, spartans to the right - here i am, stuck in the middle with yang
Bella Hella is offline  
Old January 14, 2004, 16:13   #14
Sarxis
Rise of Nations MultiplayerAlpha Centauri PBEMCivilization III MultiplayerCivilization III PBEMCTP2 Source Code ProjectCall to Power II MultiplayerCall to Power MultiplayerCivilization IV: MultiplayerCivilization IV CreatorsGalCiv Apolyton Empire
Emperor
 
Sarxis's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 3,361
I agree- culture doesn't seem appropriate to AC.
Sarxis is offline  
Old January 14, 2004, 19:26   #15
Barinthus
Alpha Centauri PBEMAlpha Centauri Democracy Game
King
 
Barinthus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: A Magical Moment...
Posts: 2,273
Quote:
it sucks when you conquer a base only to have it immediately defect). but i'm not sure how it would work with SMAC. since the factions are ideology-based, they would each have their own unique culture. i can't see a university base defecting to the believers, for example - what university citizen would find a religious culture better than a scientific one?
Isn't Total Thought Control is all about this? What do I know anyway, I don't even have a manual and datalinks isn't that great of a resource.
__________________
Who is Barinthus?
Barinthus is offline  
Old January 14, 2004, 23:14   #16
timotheus4
Apolyton Storywriters' Guild
Chieftain
 
timotheus4's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Greatest City In America
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally posted by DataAeolus


Isn't Total Thought Control is all about this? What do I know anyway, I don't even have a manual and datalinks isn't that great of a resource.
Got my game used off of Amazon, didn't get a manual, but there was one on the CD.
__________________
I am timotheus4 of SimCity 4 fame, recently discovered the wonder of Alpha Centauri and EU2!
timotheus4 is offline  
Old January 16, 2004, 17:18   #17
Illuminatus
staff
Apolyton Storywriters' GuildCivilization IV CreatorsACDG3 CMNsACDG3 Data AngelsACDG3 SpartansC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansC4WDG Team ApolytonAge of Nations TeamACDG3 Gaians
Provost
 
Local Time: 17:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,942
Not being able to rush wonders is a great thing - you no have to carefully consider when and where to build wonders - unless you saved a leader. Simultanous wonder building is stupid (five great wonders at once ), so this is positive progress. Also anyone who played Civ2 or SMAC/X knows that gold support is an improvement. I mean when were soldiers paid with ore - "here take some iron, ore, dirt and stone and survive". Atleast in SMAC there woulf be no need to micromanage support of units but many concepts are based upon this -SE for example, pacifism etc.
__________________
SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
Illuminatus is offline  
Old January 16, 2004, 17:21   #18
Illuminatus
staff
Apolyton Storywriters' GuildCivilization IV CreatorsACDG3 CMNsACDG3 Data AngelsACDG3 SpartansC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansC4WDG Team ApolytonAge of Nations TeamACDG3 Gaians
Provost
 
Local Time: 17:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,942
Just a spam message - I am warlord from now on -
__________________
SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
Illuminatus is offline  
Old January 16, 2004, 18:39   #19
CEO Aaron
ACDG3 Morgan
King
 
CEO Aaron's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: A right bastard.
Posts: 1,058
Just weighing in on the quality of alterations between SMAX and Civ3.

Getting rid of rush-building wonders is definitely good, it makes decisions on which wonders to build when far more important.

I'm split on the support of military. It could be argued that paying your troops in cash is more realistic, but the truth is more complicated. An army in the field, especially a modern one, consumes more than just money. Fuel, Ammunition, Spare parts, the list goes on. However, paying your troops out of your capital budget does reduce micromanagement. And on the other hand, limiting your troop deployment on minerals makes for a more balanced early game, at least among human players.
CEO Aaron is offline  
Old January 16, 2004, 19:18   #20
Illuminatus
staff
Apolyton Storywriters' GuildCivilization IV CreatorsACDG3 CMNsACDG3 Data AngelsACDG3 SpartansC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansC4WDG Team ApolytonAge of Nations TeamACDG3 Gaians
Provost
 
Local Time: 17:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,942
No need for gold to pay up, just the home base support concept removed. DOesn`t matter with which resource were they supported. Perhaps a pool of minerals?
__________________
SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
Illuminatus is offline  
Old January 16, 2004, 23:49   #21
Hercules
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG3 SpartansACDG3 GaiansC4DG VoxC4WDG éirich tuireannC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansBtS Tri-LeagueC4BtSDG TemplarsACDG PeaceACDG3 Data Angels
Deity
 
Hercules's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: On a Board Walk
Posts: 11,565
Quote:
Getting rid of rush-building wonders is definitely good, it makes decisions on which wonders to build when
far more important.
Would this be a general consensus? I wonder (pun intended)
__________________
"Four things come not back: the spoken word, the sped arrow, the past life and the neglected opportunity."
Hercules is offline  
Old January 17, 2004, 13:26   #22
Googlie
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMApolyton Storywriters' GuildApolytoners Hall of FameACDG3 GaiansACDG3 Data AngelsACDG3 MorganACDG3 CMNsACDG3 SpartansC4DG Team Alpha Centaurians
Emperor
 
Googlie's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Palm Springs, California
Posts: 9,541
Quote:
Originally posted by obstructor
Simultanous wonder building is stupid (five great wonders at once
You can always tweak your alphax.txt so that all minerals on unbuilt wonders are lost when changing

The default is "2" Reset it to "3"

2, ; Retool strictness (0 = Always Free, 1 = Free in Category, 2 = Free if Project, 3 = Never Free)

G.
Googlie is offline  
Old January 17, 2004, 13:39   #23
Enigma_Nova
C4DG The Mercenary Team
Emperor
 
Enigma_Nova's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:58
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,988
Is there a way to stop that damn crawler cash in?
Enigma_Nova is offline  
Old January 17, 2004, 20:12   #24
gwillybj
Prince
 
gwillybj's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Eurytion Mining Camp: 100°C dayside, 100°F nightside.
Posts: 875
I have yet to encounter a "wonder" in SMAC. I have, however, completed several Secret Projects.
__________________
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving isn't your thing.
gwillybj is offline  
Old January 17, 2004, 23:03   #25
jtsisyoda
ACDG The Free DronesAlpha Centauri PBEMAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG3 Morgan
King
 
jtsisyoda's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Posts: 1,636
Googlie, may a scrawny peon deign to correct? As Rubin states in his recently updated alpha(x).txt guide, the Retool Strictness has a bug so that three is reset to two. It can never be "never free".
__________________
"Give to Caesar what is Caesar's? Pay no attention to Caesar. He doesn't have a clue what's really going on." -Cat's Cradle
jtsisyoda is offline  
Old January 18, 2004, 01:12   #26
ErikM
Warlord
 
ErikM's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally posted by CEO Aaron
I'm split on the support of military. It could be argued that paying your troops in cash is more realistic, but the truth is more complicated. An army in the field, especially a modern one, consumes more than just money. Fuel, Ammunition, Spare parts, the list goes on. However, paying your troops out of your capital budget does reduce micromanagement. And on the other hand, limiting your troop deployment on minerals makes for a more balanced early game, at least among human players.
I like support the way it is done in Civ II/SMAC but the main problem with this model is that AI cannot handle it. They build too many units and deplete production potential of their bases. In Civ III they still build too many units but they pay cash which is easier for AI to handle (especially given that early governments give some free support per each city + AI gets a bonus).

So cash maintenance is probably a good idea overall. Although I would raise maintenance cost per unit. As it stands now, there is very little downside in Civ III for having a bloated military.
ErikM is offline  
Old January 18, 2004, 06:29   #27
Archaic
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMNationStatesACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessACDG3 MorganACDG Planet University of Technology
Emperor
 
Archaic's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:58
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Washed up SMAC/X University Specialist
Posts: 3,022
Quote:
Originally posted by Googlie


You can always tweak your alphax.txt so that all minerals on unbuilt wonders are lost when changing

The default is "2" Reset it to "3"

2, ; Retool strictness (0 = Always Free, 1 = Free in Category, 2 = Free if Project, 3 = Never Free)

G.
That won't work. There's a documented problem there. Apparently the game will treat the 3 as a 2, no matter what.
__________________
Veni Vidi Castravi Illegitimos
Archaic is offline  
Old January 18, 2004, 18:32   #28
Ironwood
Prince
 
Local Time: 08:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 386
I just wanted to add in my own take on the combination of Civ3 and SMAC features.

Personally, I love all the new features SMAC has, and Civ3 doesn't, and all the new features Civ3 has, but SMAC doesn't.

I like the gold support option, and think it's especially appropriate for a sci-fi setup. In our own military, all military units are "completed" in specific places: training facilities. However, our entire economy goes into supporting these units, not just the town that hosts the facility.


On the one hand, I think rush-building WoWs/SPs might be appropriate, since obviously one doesn't have to rely purely on the local economy for projects of national scope. However, since they are secret projects in SMAC, it just might be that one wouldn't want to make the project so public as a sudden realocation of national resources might do. Perhaps one could allocate a small amount of gold-per-turn to it, which just sort of "slips through the cracks" of the budget, so to speak, thus speeding it up a bit.


I *love* the culture aspect, and think it even more appropriate in SMAC, if tweaked a bit. You could have them assigned per faction, and rather than having the likelyhood of defection be based upon "cultural buildup" as in Civ3, you could have it based upon whether or not the occupying faction has certain SE options. Another aspect would be the occupying faction's "preferred" options.

So, for example, imagine a captured University base, captured by either the Morganites or the Believers. The best situation would be if it were captured by Morganites, running Value: Knowledge, and *not* running Fundamentalism. It would be a bit worse if they were running something other than knowledge, somewhat worse if they were Fundy and Knowledge, and worst possible if they were running Fundy with Wealth or Power. (Survival would be neutral).

The Believers, however, would have an inherant penalty because they *prefer* Fundamentalism. In the role-play sense, even if the Believers are running Democracy or Police State for the time being, captured University citizens would forever suspect their true intentions. Thus, rebellion would be even more likely, though less likely than if they were running Fundamentalism currently. (The number of drones would continue to benefit the Free Drones more than any other faction, though.)

Perhaps the level of agression could affect the likelyhood of defection, as well. I can see Gaians being willing to work from within the system, the Morganites willing to give up political power to retain their wealth. I can't see the Human Hive being very easy to manage outside their comfortable, brain-dead warrans, though (constant food and jobs riots), or the Believers being willing to give up their destiny.

One think I consider vital, though, is making the stastics regarding defection more transparent. Perhaps, to avoid defection, you must have, first off, as many troups as necessary to deal with drones, and then troops after those first few, up to your police limit once again, to deal with rebel units. Doing this guarantess no defections. This means, of course, that when occupying a non-political faction (ie anyone but the Believers or Peacekeepers), Police State is the best, which makes sense to me.


Great Leaders seem more appropriate to a historical game than a sci-fi game, if only because just making up names wouldn't be anywhere near as satisfying as seeing a name one can actually know something about.

I think that's it. Sorry for the long post. I just can't help myself.
__________________
To those who understand,
I extend my hand.
To the doubtful I demand,
Take me as I am.

Last edited by Ironwood; January 18, 2004 at 18:40.
Ironwood is offline  
Old January 19, 2004, 15:13   #29
Illuminatus
staff
Apolyton Storywriters' GuildCivilization IV CreatorsACDG3 CMNsACDG3 Data AngelsACDG3 SpartansC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansC4WDG Team ApolytonAge of Nations TeamACDG3 Gaians
Provost
 
Local Time: 17:58
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,942
MORE SE CHOICES!!!!!!
__________________
SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
Illuminatus is offline  
Old January 19, 2004, 20:13   #30
Enigma_Nova
C4DG The Mercenary Team
Emperor
 
Enigma_Nova's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:58
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,988
YES! More than 4 SE choices along every row dammit!
Enigma_Nova is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:58.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team