PnP ADnD character creation

[Jon Miller]

myself and some of my friends are going to play a little RPG for a bit (not sure if it will be long, last one we played we played for 4 months before we got tired of it)

I am looking at different characters, but want to choose one that would fit well with the party as well as be one that I want to play

part of my problem sometimes is that I want to paly a character one day, and not another day, but I don't know how to fix that

my characters generally know where they are and where they are going, so I sort of come up with an idea for the future as well as today

other characters are
5th level Half Drow Monk (made by a powerplayer, is probably very maximised)

6th level Human Cleric (with maybe a couple levels of fighter)

6th level Human (or Elf) Ranger (focusing on Bows, is a little unsure if he wants to play)

and myself (5th level), who needs to come up with a character (but the DM will also have a 4th level NPC in the game)

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

now the party definitely needs a mage of sometype

I have to admit that I am a little bit of a powerplayer myself

I have played in the past (I have not played that many games (3 PnP))
Pallidan (Palladium)
Mage (GURPS)
Bard (ADnD 3rd)

one of my favorite ideas I was going to play in a game ehre, but it never really got off the ground

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

my first one

Tarna is a sorta cute but not very social girl who is more interested in machines and gadgets than people (stole the name from my brothers girlfreind, I like it). She is Human.

first 5 levels are 3 Rogue and 2 Illusionist
stats are (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha)
10
14
12
18
10
8

skill points go mostly into crafts

progression goes
9 artificer
6 dualist

artificers have BABs like rogues and can make items that can do magical abilites (so at artificer level 5 they can make an item that allows its user to cast lightning bolt (a level 3 spell), these items are cheaper and easier to make than similiar ones made by mages)

dualist is a prestige class that is about being lightly armored and agile, it has a fighter BAB and gives you AC for your intelligence

I am not entirely sure about the dualist, and had also been thinking about doing 3 wizard and 2 rogue for the first five levels (what I would really like is more crafting prestige classes)

the problem with this character is that her magic is not that strong

but I really like her (I have put the most thought into her)

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

another thing I was thinking about is make a sort of mage knight or the like

this character would be elf or human, and probably male

and I am thinking of two different bulids

(1)
5 levels of wizard
1 level of fighter
10 eldritch knight
1 dualist or bladesinger
3 archmage

he would also be a lightly armored fighter and fairly decent mage

(2)
3 fighter
2 wizard
8 spellsword
7 eldritch knight

he would be a stronger fighter, but a weaker mage, would be able to wear armor

but he would be weak at first

stats (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha)
12
14
14
16
10
10

neither of these characters would be all that skillful, they would mostly be focused on their magic arts and battle skills

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

3rd type of character I am thinking of is an rogue/wizard

probably would be female again, and probably human

would be loking at something like
3 rogue
5 wizard
10 arcane trickster
2 archmage

and would emphasize Int and Dex in the abilities

would think a bit about making her a Teifling, actually

JOn Miller

[Jamski]

3rd Edition I always play a fighter/rogue or a fighter/barbarian.

Fighter/rogue - max out DEX, decent INT, moderate STR(13+) and CON, forget CHA and WIS, unless a "talking rogue" that will do all the buying and selling and so on, in which case scrap a bit of CON for CHA.

Then I take the essential feats :
Weapon Finesse
Power Attack (STR13+)
Cleave
and then weapons feats of 2-weapon fighting feats (although then I'd make a Ranger/Rogue and get them for free)

Actually Ranger/Rogue equal levels is pretty nice, but you need massive stats to be really effective. STR13, DEX16, CON10, INT14, WIS14, CHA10 as a minimum, and I'd like to see a DEX of 18+ really.

I like to sneak, I like lots of skill points, I like having all the options, and I MUST be able to survive in melee too.

-Jam

[Jon Miller]

4th type of character

these ideas are actually fairly different, but I will put them all in the one post

these ideas all emphasize magic

(1)
5 wizard
10 incantrix
5 archmage

This character would probably be female, and would be someone who was just insanely interested in the magic arts

this character would probably be neutral or chaotic good (if I don't mention alignment than they would be neutral good) or chaotic

an elf

stats would emphasize Int, and probably Cha (With a little Con and Dex thrown in)

(2)
3 wizard
3 cleric
10 mystic theurge
4 archmage

I am not sure about the sex of this character

also an elf

stats would emphasize Wis and Int (and probably be pretty close to 10 for everything else)

(3)
5 wizard
10 alienist
5 thaumaturgist

this is a summoning character (and I am not entirely sure I want to play one right now)

this character is definitely male, and probably nongood (but not evil), also is not lawful (so I guess that leaves neutral or chaotic)

a human

stats would emphasize Int, probably Con would be the next highest

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Jamski
3rd Edition I always play a fighter/rogue or a fighter/barbarian.

Fighter/rogue - max out DEX, decent INT, moderate STR(13+) and CON, forget CHA and WIS, unless a "talking rogue" that will do all the buying and selling and so on, in which case scrap a bit of CON for CHA.

Then I take the essential feats :
Weapon Finesse
Power Attack (STR13+)
Cleave
and then weapons feats of 2-weapon fighting feats (although then I'd make a Ranger/Rogue and get them for free)

Actually Ranger/Rogue equal levels is pretty nice, but you need massive stats to be really effective. STR13, DEX16, CON10, INT14, WIS14, CHA10 as a minimum, and I'd like to see a DEX of 18+ really.

I like to sneak, I like lots of skill points, I like having all the options, and I MUST be able to survive in melee too.

-Jam

that is cool and all

and I like Rogues

but I am looking to make a character that is at least slightly mage like

and preferibly more than slightly mage like (although I am thinking about saying **** it and doing the artificer)

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

BTW

for standard 3.5, and the Prestige classes Arcane Trickster, Dualist, Eldritch Knight, Thaumaturgist, and Mystic Theurge

check out

http://www.wizards.com/D20/article.asp?x=srd35

JOn Miller

[Jon Miller]

from

http://www.dandello.net/realms/index.htm

Archmage

The highest art is magic — often referred to as the Art. Its most advanced practitioners are frequently archmages, bending spells in ways unavailable to other spellcasters. The archmage gains strange powers and the ability to alter spells in remarkable ways, but must sacrifice some of her spell capability in order to master these arcane secrets.

Hit Die: d4

To qualify to become an Archmage, a character must fulfill all the following criteria:
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 15 ranks, Spellcraft 15 ranks.
Feats: Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spell Focus in two schools of magic.
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 7th-level arcanc spells, knowledge of 5th-level or higher spells from at least five schools.

Bladesinger

Bladesingers are elves who have blended art, swordplay, and arcane magic into a harmonious whole. In battle, a bladesinger’s lithe movements and subtle tactics are beautiful, belying their deadly martial efficiency.

Multiclassed fighter/wizards are the most obvious candidates for the prestige class, although any elf who can wield a martial weapon and cast arcane spells can become a bladesinger. Bladesinger ranger/wizards, rogue/wizards, and even bards are nor unknown.

Bladesingers command great respect in most elf communities, and NPC bladesingers usually serve as itinerant guardians and champions of the elf community at large.

Hit Die: d8

To qualify to become a Bladesinger, a character must fulfill all the following criteria:
Race: Elf, half-elf
Skills: Concentration 4 ranks, Perform (Dance) 3 ranks, Perform (Sing) 3 ranks, Tumble 3 ranks.
Feats: Combat Casting, Dodge, Expertise, Still Spell, Weapon Focus (longsword).
Base Attack: +5.
Spells: Ability to cast arcane spells of 1st level or higher.
Special: Proficiency with longsword.

or

Hit Die: d10

To qualify to become a Bladesinger, a character must fulfill all the following criteria:
Race: Elf, half-elf
Skills: Concentration 4 ranks, Perform 3 ranks (dance, sing any other), Tumble 3 ranks.
Feats: Combat Casting, Dodge, Expertise, Still Spell, Weapon Focus (longsword) or Weapon Focus (rapier).
Base Attack Bonus: 4
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells.

Incantrix

The incantatrixes are the practitioners of metamagic in Faerûn, studying spells that affect other spells and having a particular fondness for magic that thwarts extraplanar beings.

Most incantatrixes are skilled wizards or sorcerers, although a small number of bards study this type of magic. Few are multiclassed as clerics or druids because those classes often rely on extraplanar entities, which conflicts with the incantatrix’s focus.

Incantatrix NPCs usually act independently, but sometimes join together to solve a common problem. Since they dislike extraplanar intrusions on the Material Plane, most incantatrixes see the destiuction of active gates to other planes as their responsibility, and an incantatrix is usually a knowledgeable source of information on functional gates in the area. Because they have little offensive combat magic against normal creatures, they prefer to avoid combat or travel with companions who balance their shortcomings.

Hit Die: d4

To qualify to become an Incantatrix, a character must fulfill all the following criteria:
Skills: Concentration 4 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks.
Feats: Iron Will, any metamagic feat.
Spellcasting: Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells.

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

and

Alienist

Alienists deal with powers and entities from terrifyingly remote reaches of space and time. For them, magical power is the triumph of the mind over the rude boundaries of dimension, distance, and often, sanity. With knowledge and determination, they pierce the barrier at the edge of time itself. In the Far Realm, outside of time, Herculean minds drift, absorbed in contemplations of madness. Unspeakable beings whisper terrifying secrets to those who dare communication. These secrets were not meant for mortals, but the alienist plunges into abysses of chaos and entropy that would blast a weaker mind. An alienist’s mad certainty is sometimes strong enough to sway others to believe in her own future transcendence.

Alienists may, on rare occasions, gather in secluded groups to enact some obscure ritual, but more often they are encountered singly NPC alienists sometimes haunt libraries or specialty bookshops in large cities, skulking and mumbling among stacks of rare (and dangerous) volumes.

Hit Die: d4

To qualify to become an Alienist, a character must fulfill all the following criteria:
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana): 8 ranks, Knowledge (The Planes): 8 ranks.
Feats: Alertness.
Spells: Ability to cast at least one Divination spell and at least one summoning spell of 3rd level or higher.
Special: Prior contact with an alienist or a pseudonatural creature.

Artificer

Gnome artificers dabble in technology to create fantastic devices, delving into shadow magic when their mundane equipment is insufficient for the task. Their weapons, armor, and tools require frequent maintenance and repair but produce nonmagical effects that rival some arcane spells.

Most gnome artificers are skilled artisans and craftsmen, usually rogues, bards, or wizards (illusionists in particular) make good artificers because of their access to shadow magic). A few rangers and clerics explore this field, but it is very rare for other classes to become artificers because of the breadth and depth of skills needed.

Gnome artificer NPCs enjoy trading information and share a healthy competition for invention and attention. Sometimes they work together in teams, while others prefer isolation and private study. Some artificers who retire from active invention study magic or become advisors on large engineering projects such as bridges and castles.

While this prestige class is called the gnome artificer, a few humans are known for their artificer skills, all of them from the island nation of Lantan. They refer to themselves as “Lantanese artificers” but otherwise have the powers of this prestige class.

Hit Die: d6

To qualify to become a Gnome Artificer, a character must fulfill all the following criteria:
Race: Gnome (or human from the Lantan region)
Alignment: any non-evil
Skills: Alchemy 3 ranks, Craft (armorsmithing, blacksmithing, gemcutting, locksmithing, metalworking, trapmaking, or weaponmaking) 8 ranks; Craft (any other two from the previous list) 4 ranks,. Disable Device 2 ranks, Knowledge (architecture) 4 ranks, Knowledge (engineering) 4 ranks, Profession (apothecary, engineer, or siege engineer) 3 ranks.
Feats: Lightning Reflexes, Skill Focus (any of the above Craft skills).
Spellcasting: Able to cast 1st-level arcane spells of the Illusion school.

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

there is the Techsmith which is craft like

but there would need to be a little editing to have it be allowed (no gunpower on our world)

Faerûn resounds with the measured cadence of blacksmiths hammering out their newest creation, the clitter-clack of tinkers cobbling together the contents of a bin of junk to create something truly useful, and the fizxing pops of chemicals as alchemists labor to create some heretofore unseen form of artificial life. At the head of this orchestra of technological progress can be found the techsmiths of Gond, men and women devoted to the development of new inventions and the progression of achievement in the name of the Wonderbringer.

Though based in the Lantanese city of Illul, techsmiths can be found throughout the continent as advisors to rulers, as merchants selling fantastic wares, and as builders and operators of small golems tasked with taking care of unsightly municipal duties such as caring for large sewer systems or interring the dead. Theirs is a primarily cosmopolitan pursuit, making techsmiths far more common in cities than in pastoral regions. Most travel widely, however, both to share their own creations and to monitor the creations of folk from all corners of the known world. Because of their skill in building constructs, techsmiths are experts at demolishing them as well, and are sometimes called into service to destroy dangerous things of that type before they cause too much harm. Techsmiths tend toward extreme eccentricity, often concerning themselves with the solution of some mathematical formula far more than personal interaction with their companions. Slow to make friends with those who do not share their obsession with mechanics and explosives (in that order), it often has been said that a techsmith’s only true confidante is the golemlike construct known as a gondsman, who serves as the techsmith’s servant, assistant, and friend.

The techsmiths draw their ranks almost exclusively from the clergy of Gond, since the High Holy Crafthouse of Inspiration, where the secrets of the techsmiths are imparted to would-be members of the order, does not accept applications from followers of other deities. Clerics of other gods who bestow the Craft domain upon their followers (such as certain members of the gnomish and dwarven pantheon) occasionally convert to Gond worship in order to gain the secrets of the techsmiths. It is said that this troubles the Wonderbringer but little, as the end result promises interesting creations from headstrong inventors.

Those techsmiths who do not adventure often attempt to profit from their proprietary knowledge by creating smoke powder weapons and bombs and selling them to the highest bidder. Unscrupulous techsmiths seek out conflict that they might profit from both sides. Such individuals are a good source of explosives, firearms and new inventions, and do lucrative business selling their goods to members of the adventuring class. In larger cities with a strong Gondian presence, they may form a guild, but most work alone.

Hit Die: d6

To qualify to become a Techsmith, a character must fulfill all the following criteria:
Skills: Craft (armorsmithing, blacksmithing, metalworking, or weaponsmithing) 9 ranks.
Feats: Craft Wondrous Item, Skill Focus (Craft [armorsmithing, blacksmithing, metalworking, or weapon-smithing]).
Spells: Ability to cast minor creation.
Patron: Gond.
Special: Must visit the High Holy Crafthouse of Inspiration in the city of Illul on the island of Lantan.

Jon Miller

[Jamski]

I always thought pClasses were a bit... cheezy somehow... I dunno.
And I've really gone off magic users at the moment... in fact my next adventure will be in a magic free world. Anyone that sees a wizard, sorceror or even a bard will scream "WITCH" and run away... unless they are an inquisitor = game over for that PC

Anyway Jon, IF I was playing a Mage I would play either a straight Sorc or a straight Wizzie - probably the Wizzie (skill points, feats yummy - Wizzies PWN in 3.5 like Sorcs did in 3.0) Why get the high level spells later? If I ever play a Wizard they are interested in only one thing - POWER - just like most Wizards.

-Jam

[Jon Miller]

I would actually like to play a low magic world (take the Lord of the Rings RPG system, modify it to make it harder to cast spells, and put it in a new world)

Pclasses are a bit cheesy, but they make it so the ADnD is not so return of the same thing

of course some of them are just powergaming

so you are thinking I should go with type 4 (1)?

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

also the one DnD game I played was in a basically magic free world

wizards weren't allowed

and if you played sorceror, you had to be multiclassed (we started at level 5 there too) to cleric

Jon Miller

[Jamski]

I really would go for a pure spellcaster then Jon.

If you're starting at level 5, your wizard has 3 level 1, 2 level 2 and 1 level 3 spell memorised per day - without the bonuses for intelligence.

Adding just one level from another class and you say goodbye to the level 3 spell, and one of the level one spells. Your magic missiles will only be 2 instead of 3...

Come on, it IS roleplaying for a Wizard to stick with one class - years of study and dedication - magic is nothing to mess around with etc.

-Jam

[Jon Miller]

all of them but the artificer and spellsword can cast level 9 wizard spells

the other nonpure spellcasters (ones that have levels of rogue/fighter/cleric only have 3 nonarcane spell caster levels)

Jon Miller

[Urban Ranger]

Your party definitely needs a mage.

[Jon Miller]

yah

but a full mage

or can I play the artificer?

jon Miller

[Urban Ranger]

I don't know much about artificers... but your party can the punch of offensive magic only that a full mage can provide.

[Jamski]

all of them but the artificer and spellsword can cast level 9 wizard spells

If they live to epic levels, yes

Who's going to provide the Fireball, Knock, Levitate, Invisibility etc that a 5th level party needs though? A Wizard is like a Swiss Army Knife - he should have a spell for every job, and as many spells as possible, if he wants to help the party properly. As a "regular rogue" I get mad if the party Wizard wants to fight in melee, or open MY locks. I want him to turn me invisible and then fireball the room full of trolls I just discovered while scouting unseen...

Just my idea of a Wizard - tool set

BTW, for crafting stuff its better to stay single classed in 3.5 to get the decent effects faster. Get to level 10 to make keen weapons and the party will LOVE you.

-Jam

[Jon Miller]

no

they all get to 9th level spells at level 20 or before (except the spellsword and artificer)

and how does single class have anything to do with crafting? that is a skill (unless it is special things like what an artificer can do)

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

at level 20

4-3 will have a caster level of 20

4-2 will have an arcane caster level of 17, and a divine caster level of 13

4-1 will have an arcane caster level of 20

3 wlil have an arcane caster level of 17

2-1 will have an arcane caster level of 17 (And a BAB of 16)

2-2 will have an arcane caster level of 12 (And BAB of 17 and be able to cast arcane spells in armor)

1 will be able to make 4th level spell-items, but couldn't have much magic (at most caster level of 13)

Jon Miller

[Jamski]

I think you have misunderstood casting level, Jon.
For example 4-3 will have a casting level of 5 as a mage, 10 as an alienist and 5 as a thaumaterge. Each class has different spell lists. A Cleric10/Druid10 doesn't have a casting level of 20, but of 10. The enemies a 20th level character faces will save all the time.

Yes, with some prestige classes you gain spell levels as if a mage or whatever - but IIRC, your caster level (for DC) stays the same.

Crafting items is a FEAT, well a number of different feats. You need x levels of wizard or x levels of cleric to use them. If you multi then you may never be able to make +5 flaming swords for example. (15 levels of wizard required)

-Jam

[Jon Miller]

no

you dont know the prestige classes

your caster level goes up at +1

Spells per Day: When a new arcane trickster level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming an arcane trickster, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.

and none of the prestige classes I looked at has a different spell list or anything like that

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

feats like

CRAFT WAND [ITEM CREATION]
Prerequisite: Caster level 5th.
Benefit: You can create a wand of any 4th-level or lower spell that you know. Crafting a wand takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. The base price of a wand is its caster level x ?the spell level x 750 gp. To craft a wand, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one-half of this base price. A newly created wand has 50 charges.
Any wand that stores a spell with a costly material component or an XP cost also carries a commensurate cost. In addition to the cost derived from the base price, you must expend fifty copies of the material component or pay fifty times the XP cost.


depend on casterlevel

not class level

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

check it

ARCANE TRICKSTER
Hit Die: d4.
Requirements
To qualify to become an arcane trickster, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria.
Alignment: Any nonlawful.
Skills: Decipher Script 7 ranks, Disable Device 7 ranks, Escape Artist 7 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks.
Spells: Ability to cast mage hand and at least one arcane spell of 3rd level or higher.
Special: Sneak attack +2d6.
Class Skills
The arcane trickster’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Search (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Table: The Arcane Trickster
Level Base
Attack
Bonus Fort
Save Ref
Save Will
Save Special Spells per Day
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Ranged legerdemain 1/day +1 level of existing class
2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Sneak attack +1d6 +1 level of existing class
3rd +1 +1 +3 +3 Impromptu sneak attack 1/day +1 level of existing class
4th +2 +1 +4 +4 Sneak attack +2d6 +1 level of existing class
5th +2 +1 +4 +4 Ranged legerdemain 2/day +1 level of existing class
6th +3 +2 +5 +5 Sneak attack +3d6 +1 level of existing class
7th +3 +2 +5 +5 Impromptu sneak attack 2/day +1 level of existing class
8th +4 +2 +6 +6 Sneak attack +4d6 +1 level of existing class
9th +4 +3 +6 +6 Ranged legerdemain 3/day +1 level of existing class
10th +5 +3 +7 +7 Sneak attack +5d6 +1 level of existing class

Class Features
All of the following are Class Features of the arcane trickster prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Arcane tricksters gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Spells per Day: When a new arcane trickster level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming an arcane trickster, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.
Ranged Legerdemain: An arcane trickster can perform one of the following class skills at a range of 30 feet: Disable Device, Open Lock, or Sleight of Hand. Working at a distance increases the normal skill check DC by 5, and an arcane trickster cannot take 10 on this check. Any object to be manipulated must weigh 5 pounds or less.
An arcane trickster can use ranged legerdemain once per day initially, twice per day upon attaining 5th level, and three times per day at 9th level or higher. He can make only one ranged legerdemain skill check each day, and only if he has at least 1 rank in the skill being used.
Sneak Attack: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 every other level (2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th). If an arcane trickster gets a sneak attack bonus from another source the bonuses on damage stack.
Impromptu Sneak Attack: Beginning at 3rd level, once per day an arcane trickster can declare one melee or ranged attack he makes to be a sneak attack (the target can be no more than 30 feet distant if the impromptu sneak attack is a ranged attack). The target of an impromptu sneak attack loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, but only against that attack. The power can be used against any target, but creatures that are not subject to critical hits take no extra damage (though they still lose any Dexterity bonus to AC against the attack).
At 7th level, an arcane trickster can use this ability twice per day.

ARCHMAGE
Hit Die: d4.
Requirements
To qualify to become an archmage, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 15 ranks, Spellcraft 15 ranks.
Feats: Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Spell Focus in two schools of magic.
Spells: Ability to cast 7th-level arcane spells, knowledge of 5th-level or higher spells from at least five schools.

Class Skills
The archmage’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (alchemy) (Int), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Table: The Archmage
Level Base
Attack
Bonus Fort
Save Ref
Save Will
Save Special Spells per Day
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 High arcana +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 High arcana +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 High arcana +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 High arcana +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 High arcana +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class

Class Features
All the following are Class Features of the archmage prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Archmages gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Spells per Day/Spells Known: When a new archmage level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class in which he could cast 7th-level spells before he added the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class in which he could cast 7th-level spells before he became an archmage, he must decide to which class he adds each level of archmage for the purpose of determining spells per day.
High Arcana: An archmage gains the opportunity to select a special ability from among those described below by permanently eliminating one existing spell slot (she cannot eliminate a spell slot of higher level than the highest-level spell she can cast). Each special ability has a minimum required spell slot level, as specified in its description.
An archmage may choose to eliminate a spell slot of a higher level than that required to gain a type of high arcana.
Arcane Fire (Su): The archmage gains the ability to change arcane spell energy into arcane fire, manifesting it as a bolt of raw magical energy. The bolt is a ranged touch attack with long range (400 feet + 40 feet/level of archmage) that deals 1d6 points of damage per class level of the archmage plus 1d6 points of damage per level of the spell used to create the effect. This ability costs one 9th-level spell slot.
Arcane Reach (Su): The archmage can use spells with a range of touch on a target up to 30 feet away. The archmage must make a ranged touch attack. Arcane reach can be selected a second time as a special ability, in which case the range increases to 60 feet. This ability costs one 7th-level spell slot.
Mastery of Counterspelling: When the archmage counterspells a spell, it is turned back upon the caster as if it were fully affected by a spell turning spell. If the spell cannot be affected by spell turning, then it is merely counterspelled. This ability costs one 7th-level spell slot.
Mastery of Elements: The archmage can alter an arcane spell when cast so that it utilizes a different element from the one it normally uses. This ability can only alter a spell with the acid, cold, fire, electricity, or sonic descriptor. The spell’s casting time is unaffected. The caster decides whether to alter the spell’s energy type and chooses the new energy type when he begins casting. This ability costs one 8th-level spell slot.
Mastery of Shaping: The archmage can alter area and effect spells that use one of the following shapes: burst, cone, cylinder, emanation, or spread. The alteration consists of creating spaces within the spell’s area or effect that are not subject to the spell. The minimum dimension for these spaces is a 5-foot cube. Furthermore, any shapeable spells have a minimum dimension of 5 feet instead of 10 feet. This ability costs one 6th-level spell slot.
Spell Power: This ability increases the archmage’s effective caster level by +1 (for purposes of determining level-dependent spell variables such as damage dice or range, and caster level checks only). This ability costs one 5th-level spell slot.
Spell-Like Ability: An archmage who selects this type of high arcana can use one of her arcane spell slots (other than a slot expended to learn this or any other type of high arcana) to permanently prepare one of her arcane spells as a spell-like ability that can be used twice per day. The archmage does not use any components when casting the spell, although a spell that costs XP to cast still does so and a spell with a costly material component instead costs her 10 times that amount in XP. This ability costs one 5th-level spell slot.
The spell-like ability normally uses a spell slot of the spell’s level, although the archmage can choose to make a spell modified by a metamagic feat into a spell-like ability at the appropriate spell level.
The archmage may use an available higher-level spell slot in order to use the spell-like ability more often. Using a slot three levels higher than the chosen spell allows her to use the spell-like ability four times per day, and a slot six levels higher lets her use it six times per day.
If spell-like ability is selected more than one time as a high arcana choice, this ability can apply to the same spell chosen the first time (increasing the number of times per day it can be used) or to a different spell.


Jon Miller

[Jamski]

I was talking about crafting weapons and armour. Sure - wands depend on the spells you know etc... but the "plus" enchantment on an item comes from level. 3 levels per +1, IIRC.

The comparison at level 20 is a bit silly anyway. If you get enough levels you can get decent casting skills with any multiclass. (and a caster PrC isn't a real multiclass - its a kit)

How do your characters compare at level 11 to a straight mage? The mage is MUCH more powerful IMO, not to mention more believable than a dabbler.

-Jam

[Jon Miller]

but things like an incantrix and alienist are mages

they are just specialised

Jon Miller

[Jamski]

(and a caster PrC isn't a real multiclass - its a kit)

As I said.

Its the rogue/trickster/illusionist combinations that bother me.

-Jam