I think Boeing has lost it

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor

"entirely". Probably
I guess they make no money whatsoever because they simply give away the planes, but Boeing ones are so superior some still pay big bucks to buy them

In your opinion, how much of the 19.4 bil. € of this year's turnover are subsidies from the State? I'm very curious...

I'm not sure what ur conclusion is. are u saying airbus was not or is not heavily subsidized? are u saying the jumbo jet's development and price are not heavily subsidized?

and ur first paragraph is just odd.

[Bereta_Eder]

it could well have been in jeopardy if it didnt sell any planes

[yavoon]

Originally posted by paiktis22
it could well have been in jeopardy if it didnt sell any planes

selling planes was a near guarentee, the price of the plane is subsidized. and all national carriers are "strongly encouraged" to buy airbus.

so I suppose if they all fell down and coudln't afford new planes AND the price was STILL too high(a near impossibliity).

then u r correct.

[Bereta_Eder]

hardly. boeing planes are just too expensive and inferior to airbus. the reasons do not concern me. what concerns me is that airbus has far higher sales than boeing and is doing great.

[Bereta_Eder]

boeing also had for far too long the US gov. lobbying for it in many countries.... about time it got some competition (and from the looks of it it is going very well)

[yavoon]

Originally posted by paiktis22
hardly. boeing planes are just too expensive and inferior to airbus. the reasons do not concern me. what concerns me is that airbus has far higher sales than boeing and is doing great.

haha. u know ur dealing w/ a superior intellect when "reasons" do not concern a person.

u r undoubtedly most adept at navigating the difficult landscape. because afterall, what help would reasons be?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by yavoon
I agree it is very polarized. I assure u americans dont like losing jobs to uber subsidized french industry(I've talked to them).

100 people work for Airbus in Wichita, Kansas. Yeah, it doesn't replace all those who'll lose their jobs in the Boeing factory, but some Wichitans do profit from Airbus' rise.

this is pretty common tho. france protects its car industry viciously.

All our car companies are private, and there is no barrier with any other EU country. If our cars did suck, Renault and Peugeot would have surrendered to Volswagen and Fiat already. For some reason, Renault and Peugeot are making progress on European markets.
No, it can't be because they finally produce good cars

it bails out its crappy engineers

What does it mean? That we pay for people to have an education? Since when is a country supposed not to promote positive externalities?

and it throws money at airbus

I don't know for BAE (the other owner of Airbus, which is British), but EADS is a privately owned company. It makes me cringe, btw, since we basically entrust a private company our armament ability

viacomm goes around buying everyone(which was a dumb idea). then we all learn its a dumb idea. but thats ok, cuz they're french. so here comes the french gov't.

Care to tell me what you are talking about?

french companies are awful. they're a drag on competition and a bore to efficiency.

Yes. All of them. There is absolutely no other reason for them gaining markets than the fact the French taxpayer bails them out so much

[BeBro]

One could say the ridiculous prices some US companies (incl. Boeing) get for defense tech stuff are like subsidaries as well....AFAIk there was trouble ´bout it more than once in the congress.....

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by yavoon


haha. u know ur dealing w/ a superior intellect when "reasons" do not concern a person.

u r undoubtedly most adept at navigating the difficult landscape. because afterall, what help would reasons be?

:shrugs:

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor

100 people work for Airbus in Wichita, Kansas. Yeah, it doesn't replace all those who'll lose their jobs in the Boeing factory, but some Wichitans do profit from Airbus' rise.

Quote:

this is pretty common tho. france protects its car industry viciously.

All our car companies are private, and there is no barrier with any other EU country. If our cars did suck, Renault and Peugeot would have surrendered to Volswagen and Fiat already. For some reason, Renault and Peugeot are making progress on European markets.
No, it can't be because they finally produce good cars

ur cars are awful. and there has historically been strict protectionism on french cars.

u also don't let walmart in. and walmart would obviously destroy ur large chain stores.

the french have substandard companies that have and continue to be heavily supported by the french government.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by BeBro
One could say the ridiculous prices some US companies (incl. Boeing) get for defense tech stuff are like subsidaries as well....AFAIk there was trouble ´bout it more than once in the congress.....

I agree that boeing is getting US gov't money. but its a question of scale. boeing milks the US gov't on things like change orders for its defense contracts.

airbus simply gets a 40 billion dollar check.

[BeBro]

Originally posted by yavoon


ur cars are awful. and there has historically been strict protectionism on french cars.

French cars improved a lot ove the last years. They´re quite a challenge now for VW etc....

And no offense, but US cars aren´t exactly known as big competitors in Europe

[yavoon]

Originally posted by BeBro


French cars improved a lot ove the last years. They´re quite a challenge now for VW etc....

And no offense, but US cars aren´t exactly known as big competitors in Europe

must be after the french bought Nissan.

[Ben Kenobi]

Spiffor:

It's the greatest compliment an American can pay to an industry, is to whinge about government subsidies. They say the same thing about Canadian Lumber.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Spiffor:

It's the greatest compliment an Amercian can pay to an industry, is to whinge about government subsidies. They say the same thing about Canadian Lumber.

I'm not sure I get it. if ur implying americans subsidize a lot of industries. than I would say that france is far superior at subsidizing.

I think american farm subsidizes are utterly ridiculous. but somehow france is able to top us.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
It's the greatest compliment an Amercian can pay to an industry, is to whinge about government subsidies. They say the same thing about Canadian Lumber.

I thought so too

[yavoon]

Originally posted by paiktis22



I thought so too

u r such an unintelligent fanboy.

go hold a sign up at a rally or something.

[Bereta_Eder]

more compliments

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by yavoon
ur cars are awful. and there has historically been strict protectionism on french cars.

Speak at past tense, and you have a point. French cars are currently among the best in the medium-quality product range. Besides, there is no more possible protectionism with our European partners, since tarriff and non-tarriff barriers get decided by... the EU, not the French gov.

So, if our cars sucked that much, German or Italian cars would have flooded our markets (and the rest of the European one) for a long time. It has not. Care to explain?

u also don't let walmart in. and walmart would obviously destroy ur large chain stores.

Our large chain stores are strong, and the issue of the battle would be unpredictable. If I may recall you, our chain stores have huge assets abroad, competing with Walmart. Care to explain how they can possibly survive, with Walmart being that much better?

the french have substandard companies that have and continue to be heavily supported by the french government.

Thank you for your hinsight and your deep knowledge of the French economy. You manage to reach the science of Lancer or TCO

[alva]

u also don't let walmart in.

I for one hope they make a law for the whole of europe to never let Walmart in.

[Bereta_Eder]

somebody screwed up and let radioschak or whats its name in. thankfully it cant compete with germanos multimedia or any other number of large greek electronic sales and will withdraw quickly. plus they are astounishly stupid. i went to buy some rechargable bateries and the socket on the charger was american

hello?!

[Bereta_Eder]

germanos is not german BTW its a guy called germanos which means german.

[DanS]

So as case of study in corporate management: what's ailing Boeing?

They have a lot of things wrong with them, only some of which is the vision thing. As for the superjumbo, I think they were smart to stay out of it and try to develop a more efficient mid-range jet.

Overall, I think it's a good thing to see some competition in commerical aviation, but I doubt Boeing will lose out in the long run.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by paiktis22
somebody screwed up and let radioschak or whats its name in. thankfully it cant compete with germanos multimedia or any other number of large greek electronic sales and will withdraw quickly. plus they are astounishly stupid. i went to buy some rechargable bateries and the socket on the charger was american

Yet another proof that the evil Greeks subsidize their economy, who would otherwise be flooded by superior American businesses.

[Bereta_Eder]

so i read in the radioschac prospectus: full set of rechargable bateries 38 euros. very nice i though let's go get them.

went there bought them. thank you very much. thank you.

go home open the box and some weird two metal thingies stick out. what the hell is this?

ggggrrr and the store was near the centre. i cant drive cause its too congested with traffic i can only take the metro or the bus. half an hour journey for a damn socket.

i decide to check my loacl store for american to european sockets. they did have some but wouldnt fit because the divice had also a protective thingie on it (fortunately though it could take the higher voltage)


which stroke me as odd. it said the travelers best : use it anywhere in the world. how can i if the socket doesnt fit and not only that it doesnt accept any normal adaptor????



so i went back half an hour journay back to radioshack, of course pissed. went inside (its a very small store) hello? hello? anyone here?


the guy was back smooching with his girlfriend. ok no problem.

hello the socket is american? so what am i goinna do? dont you check them?

emm well ok i can give you an adaptor which can be plugged to the wall and also converts electicity voltages to european ones.


free of charge of course, i say


of course he says

then he starts searching the whole damn store to find one. when he eventually finds one he checks it, ok everything alright.

now i have to stand for like 10 minutes so he could finally pass it to his PC


im totally fed up and tired i tell him, look just give it to me and let me go alright? you can pass it to your PC without my presence i gather.

of course


ok bye

bye




then i see in germanos an rechargable batteris set for only 4 euros more. if i had went there at least i would have known that they would
1) absolutely know what they're talking about
2) have efficacity and know how
3) be totally compatible and tailor made for greece
4) be just 5 walks away from my house!!!


anyway just a funny story nothing to draw HEEAAAVY conclusions from

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DanS
Overall, I think it's a good thing to see some competition in commerical aviation, but I doubt Boeing will lose out in the long run.

I doubt it as well. As long as the competition remains amon a few actors (Boeing, Airbus, and maybe an emerging 'third company' in the future), none is likely to bite the dust. Since strategical concerns are a reality in the aviation business, it is likely these companies will have their survival "helped" when in danger, and they'll have a technological / comlmercial lead on their roughly equal competitors for some period.

[Bereta_Eder]

Boeing has already lost in civilian aviation. Just look at its sheets and the number of lay offs I think its in the tens of thousands.

as final proof it has turned to military equipment primarily now. cant compete

airbus has taken over in sales since more than two years and its getting more and more

[Bereta_Eder]

the only orders it can hope to get is from countries which can bebullied by the US gov. luckily those are fewer and fewer. and now TARAM there's the alternative! Airbus: cheaper, better and US free

[Bereta_Eder]

i wonder where china is

[Bereta_Eder]

but beoing needs to be here even if that means giving it EU money in order to do so. one company will turn lethargic if by itself