"Boys are stupid, throw rocks at them"

[Jac de Molay]

http://www.ljworld.com/section/archive/story/159681

Protesters fail to see humor in 'Boys Are Stupid' shirts


New York — The T-shirts and pajamas are meant to be funny, with cartoon captions like "Boys Are Stupid -- Throw Rocks At Them." But some protesters, encouraged by a fathers'-rights talk show host, are unamused and have pressured three retail chains into dropping the merchandise.

The products in question -- an array of girls' clothes and accessories -- are manufactured or licensed by David & Goliath, a T-shirt company based in Clearwater, Fla.

Its chief designer, Todd Goldman, has created a series of cartoonish graphics used on the merchandise with what he intended to be humorously anti-boy themes. "Boys Are Smelly -- Throw Garbage Cans At Them," says one. "The Stupid Factory -- Where Boys Are Made," says another.

"I have a very quirky, sarcastic sense of humor," Goldman said. "Most people just love the cartoons. If a few people don't like them, they don't have to buy them."

The graphics have been in use more than two years but only recently came to the attention of Glenn Sacks, a commentator who is host of "His Side," a weekly radio show aired in Los Angeles and Seattle that is sympathetic to the fathers' rights movement and often at odds with feminists.

"I'm sorry if I sound like a humorless zealot, but I just don't see the humor in it," Sacks said.

At Sacks' urging, listeners and supporters have contacted targeted retailers by e-mail and other means, urging them to stop selling the David & Goliath products. At least three retail chains -- Seattle-based Bon-Macy's, California-based Tilly's and Claire's Stores Inc., an international chain -- say they will no longer carry the contested items.

Goldman thinks the idea that he's promoting violence is ridiculous. "If you look at the violence in rap songs, in video games -- that's what they should be concentrating on, not a cartoon T-shirt," he said.

Like many targets of consumer protests, Goldman said the controversy about his products had boosted sales, especially over the Internet.

"It's the best advertisement I can ask for," he said. "We're one of the hottest junior lines out there."

Contrary to what a few people around here want to believe about political correctness as some bogieman invented by the Right, here's a classic example of how it's sterilizing American society.

Of course, the mass media can peddle all the violence it wants through movies, video games, and cartoons. But (oh no!) perish the thought that somebody comes up a quirky, silly campaign that "boys are icky".

It always takes one uptight, thin-skinned, PC fussyfart to ruin the fun. And shame on the stores for giving in and discontinuing the products.

""The Stupid Factory -- Where Boys Are Made,"

[Az]

[Bosh]

*waits for blackice to show up*

[Az]

wait, boshko, do you agree with that?

[Drogue]

I believe in the right of the person to make the t-shirts, stores to sell them and people to buy them. I also believe in the right to protest peacefully if something aggrieves someone. If all they did was ask them repeatedly to stop selling the t-shirts, then the stores can either ignore them or listen to them. And as the guy said, it's great advertising

I don't particularly like the t shirts, because they are aimed at younger girls. I could well imagine 4 and 5 year old girls seeing them and deciding to throw rocks at boys in the playground, because they're not mature enough yet to understand about not harming people. If these were for adults, I'd have no problem with the product, but aiming slogans like that at children too young to understand them isn't the best move, IMHO.

[Bosh]

How did my reply imply that I agree in any way with Sacks?

[Az]

Drogue: I think we should approach this from the side of utilitarianism.

The rule is very simple: what if we change it to something else, would that be ok? "Girls are dumb: beat them". Is that ok? No. The same goes to girls. It's that simple.

[General Ludd]

[Az]

Why do you support that, Osweld?

[Shi Huangdi]

The thing, is a similar "humourous" T-Shirt could not be made in this society about some form of violence against women.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Azazel
Why do you support that, Osweld?

Mainly because it ticks you off.



But really, when i first read about it I didn't like the sound of it. However, after I looked up the image to see what context the words where used in, I think it's 'quirky' or silly enough to be funny, and certainly not able to be taken seriously.

Besides, it's just a T-shirt.

[Az]

precisely, Shi. It seems like some weird stupid gender war indoctrination from young age, esp. since it's a line for girls.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Jac de Molay
Contrary to what a few people around here want to believe about political correctness as some bogieman invented by the Right, here's a classic example of how it's sterilizing American society.

What does this have to do with so-called political correctness?

[MrFun]

I guess in this case, there's a group of people who believe that they have the right to be free from being offended. That's the jist of political correctness, isn't it?

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Osweld
But really, when i first read about it I didn't like the sound of it. However, after I looked up the image to see what context the words where used in, I think it's 'quirky' or silly enough to be funny, and certainly not able to be taken seriously.

By a 5 year old? Or a 10 year old? Remember these t-shirts are aimed at children:

My bold
"We're one of the hottest junior lines out there."

I think the "The Stupid Factory - Where Boy's Are Made", though tasteless, would be acceptable. However it should also be acceptable the other way, regarding girls. The ones that purport violence against boys are not ok. Whether or not it was intended that way, it could well influence a young girl, who doesn't know any better, to throw stones at boys.

Azazel

[Jac de Molay]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


What does this have to do with so-called political correctness?

Because the thin-skinned sensibilities of a select few ,who think it's some junior domestic violence campaign, are allowed to prevail over a lot of people who think it's funny in it's own quirky way. They're reading way too much into it, and stifling expression because it offends their paper-thin sensibilities.

Case in point:

precisely, Shi. It seems like some weird stupid gender war indoctrination from young age, esp. since it's a line for girls

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Drogue

By a 5 year old? Or a 10 year old? Remember these t-shirts are aimed at children:

Deffinately. Kids aren't nearly as uptight and serious as adults can be. I'd be more worried if it was targeted to a 'mature' crowd.


EDIT: But I think the more likely age group is 10-14, anyways.

5 year olds? Probably can't even read, anyways.

[chequita guevara]

And that's political correctness how? In the typical ideology ascribed to "PC," volence and derrogatory comments about boys would be okay, since boys are males, and males are the oppressors. PC is almost universally described as a left-wing ideology, and yet it seems that people across the board, politically, find this distasteful.

[MrFun]

I don't think political correctness is exclusive to one political group of people anymore, Chegitz -- even if it originated with left wingers.

For instance, conservatives are offended with flag burning -- I see that as being PC.

[The diplomat]

when I saw the thread title, I thought you were going to talk about the stampede at Mecca over the weekend.

[Jac de Molay]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
And that's political correctness how? In the typical ideology ascribed to "PC," volence and derrogatory comments about boys would be okay, since boys are males, and males are the oppressors. PC is almost universally described as a left-wing ideology, and yet it seems that people across the board, politically, find this distasteful.

PC, regardless of ideology, seeks to neutralize statements or expressions that are deemed stereotypical or offensive to the select few, and it cuts both ways. Another good example of this are, say, university Writing manuals for students that attempt to influence all essay writing to exclude gender or racial descriptions that might possibly be deemed offensive. I also consider this case an apt example.

guess in this case, there's a group of people who believe that they have the right to be free from being offended. That's the jist of political correctness, isn't it?

And what gives them the right to take away others' enjoyment of the humor they find in the shirts? Let the free market make these decisions- If they don't sell, pull 'em. I don't need some sanctimonius pokenose dictating what products I should/n't be exposed in the open marketplace.

[lord of the mark]

POLITical corrEctness


POLITE.


When I was growing up, we didnt have political correctness. It was however, considered desirable by SOME to be polite, and not rude. In fact rudeness was JUSTIFIED on political grounds - 'we've gotta curse, cause whats happening in Viet Nam is a much bigger obscenity' Well the war ended, and the cursing and rudeness remained. Now when theres rudeness, the right complains about "political correctness"

why cant people just treat each other with decency.

You dont suggest throwing rocks at people cause of their gender. Not even in jest. And you dont sell shirts like that to kids. And whoever does, deserves public shaming.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Jac de Molay

I don't need some sanctimonius pokenose dictating what products I should/n't be exposed in the open marketplace.

I dont need some santimonious Libertarian telling me what i should or shouldnt protest against, who i should or shouldnt boycott, who i should or shouldnt shame.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

You dont suggest throwing rocks at people cause of their gender. Not even in jest. And you dont sell shirts like that to kids. And whoever does, deserves public shaming.

Can I have the 12 O'clock spot at the stocks and pillories?

[chequita guevara]

LotM

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Osweld
Deffinately. Kids aren't nearly as uptight and serious as adults can be. I'd be more worried if it was targeted to a 'mature' crowd.

You've never seen little children, on being told by another child to throw sand in someones eye, go and do it? They don't understand the consequences of such actions. If that was read by a 5-10 year old, espeically if warn by a peer, I could quite easily imagine them going and doing it.

Originally posted by Osweld
EDIT: But I think the more likely age group is 10-14, anyways.

5 year olds? Probably can't even read, anyways.

Most 5 years olds over here can read basic things. Junior over hear is roughly 5-12 (between infant and teenager), I presumed it's the same there.

[Az]

indeed.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Drogue

You've never seen little children, on being told by another child to throw sand in someones eye, go and do it? They don't understand the consequences of such actions. If that was read by a 5-10 year old, espeically if warn by a peer, I could quite easily imagine them going and doing it.

But it isn't telling them to throw stones at them, it's a joke. And it's presented that way.


I guess we better ban saturday morning cartoons, too. We can't have them telling kids to shoot each other and drop anvils on people, ect...

[Drogue]

Osweld: It is telling them to throw stones. Even if it's meant as a joke, I don't give 5-10 year olds the credit of being able to see that. Not the vast majority at least.

A cartoon character dropping an anvil on someone's head is:
a) Not an instruction. It's just showing it as something funny, not telling kids to go and do it.
b) Not violent acts on humans. It's easier to decern it as a joke when it's a cat and a mouse, or a roadrunner, as opposed to a human.
c) On TV, as opposed to on a t-shirt, worn in public.

That is why I think the "Boys are Stupid" or the "Stupid Factory" one's are fine. However saying "Throw Stones At Them" is not. In the UK, if a child actually did throw a stone after seeing that, the makers could be charged with Incitement of Violence. They told a kid to throw stones at someone. Add to that the sexual discrimination, whereby they are told to throw stones at boys, and I can understand why people have a problem with it.

Would you think it's ok to sell t-shirts in Israel saying "Jews are stupid - throw stones at them", and then be annoyed that people protest about it. Sure, the situation isn't as volatile, but it's selling them to young children, who are impressionable and haven't got the maturity to know the difference between joke and statement. We have banned advertisments designed to attract children, because they can be easily manipulated. I think these t-shirts go even further.

[Drogue]

I just want to clarify, I'm not saying I agree with banning them, although I wouldn't be too aggreived if it happened. However I can understand why people are protesting against them, and I agree with the stores position of removing them. The stores will always bow to public pressure, as their sales depend on it, and so when the public protests, they can choose to stop stocking them.