Thread Tools
Old February 4, 2004, 15:31   #61
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Quote:
I'm not sure that every one of these ran in the primaries that year, but: Lieberman 2000, Kemp 1996, Gore 1992, Bush 1980, Mondale 1976, Dole 1976, Muskie 1968......
Only Bush ran in the primaries of all of them, IIRC. I'm not sure about Gore, but I think he didn't run in 1992 (though he did in 1988). Lieberman and Kemp I am 100% sure didn't run in the primaries.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 15:35   #62
randomturn
Prince
 
Local Time: 17:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: NYC US
Posts: 893
Miller: no chance at all. He is a vain and unpredicatable opportunist and Kerry would never trust him.

Edwards: would certainly take it and may be offered the role. Edwards was looking at an extremely tough Senate fight in NC, where his presidential ambitions were lowering his poppularity. He cannot afford to sit around for 4-8 years as a lawyer and then jump back in. His ONLY chance is to be the veep. However, he may not even be able to carry the Carolinas, so his selection is not slam dunk. Also, he did some things in his trial lawyer days that won't look too good under a microscope.

Graham: a possibility, if it seems like he can bring Fla. He is very popular there. Florida is emerging as the Rep.s version of California: they can't win without it. But if he can't guarantee Florida he won't get it, since he is weird and boring and won't be much help anywhere else.

Breaux: a possibility. Louisiana has strong democrat leanings, and he would certainly carry it, but wouldn't help much elsewhere.

Richardson: a very real possibility, for his ability to carry New Mexico and maybe Arizona as well. If those two states go Dem, the Reps have no chance at all. His hispanic heritage also helps a lot in California and Illinois.

Hilary: 0% chance

regarding the south: you've got to figure Kerry to win WV. It has always been very solidly dem: only Gore's incompetance lost him the state. FL, LA, and Arkansas are also in play. Given the 400,000 jobs lost in the Carolinas, they may be in play if Edwards is the veep.

Other swing states: NH will go Dem this time, as it is increasingly dem anyway from Bostonians and New Yorkers moving up there. It was the only Northeastern state to go for Bush. Ohio and Missouri are big states that went for Bush that have been hit hard on jobs. They will be fiercely contested. Bush's chances without either of those look pretty dim.

Jimmytrick, in general:
With regard to Bush getting 400 electoral college votes, I'll bet you $1,000 right now that doens't happen. Barring the capture of OBL, I'll be amazed if Bush wins at all, given his record on jobs, health care, the defecit, the size and spending of his government, education, the environment, immigration, and his open patronage of corporations and the ultra-wealthy. If there's a blow-out, it's more likely to be against the Reps rather than for them.
randomturn is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 15:36   #63
debeest
Prince
 
Local Time: 09:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 717
Quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Veep is usually a dead end job.

GHW Bush, Nixon, Johnson, Truman, Coolidge....... Not exactly a dead end job.
debeest is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 15:40   #64
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Quote:
Why would anyone vote for the dems. if Zell MIller was there?
Because Zell is the Veep and thus does not matter. Do you think people voted for George Bush I based on Dan Quayle? A vast majority of people vote on the guy at the top. The Veep is just bonus to get some states to lean your way (in a favored son type of way). The Veep doesn't do anything except take orders from the President and will never really hurt the top of a ticket.

Though Graham and Breaux wouldn't be bad either.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 15:47   #65
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
Quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
The Veep doesn't do anything except take orders from the President and will never really hurt the top of a ticket.
People exagerate the problems Quayle presented in 1988, and by 1992, it was a referendum on the BUsh years, so it was irrelevant-just why keeping Dick Cheney as the runnin mate won't hurt Bush.

The thing is, you need a VP who can work with the president- I don't think Miller and Kerry have much of a relationship or would be able to. Miller is too different from Kerry to make sense. Its like saying Bush should take on HIllary Clinton as VP to shore up his ticket and win New York.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 17:25   #66
Guynemer
C4WDG The GooniesCiv4 SP Democracy GameBtS Tri-League
Emperor
 
Guynemer's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: here
Posts: 8,349
I think either Richardson or Graham would swing enough votes to make Kerry the odds-on favorite in November.

Miller? Not gonna happen. Too conservative. Maybe Breaux, but he's not as well known as the other two.
__________________
"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"Strange is it that our bloods, of colour, weight, and heat, pour'd all together, would quite confound distinction, yet stand off in differences so mighty." --William Shakespeare
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
Guynemer is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 17:35   #67
lord of the mark
Deity
 
lord of the mark's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,160
Quote:
Originally posted by Guynemer
I think either Richardson or Graham would swing enough votes to make Kerry the odds-on favorite in November.

Miller? Not gonna happen. Too conservative. Maybe Breaux, but he's not as well known as the other two.
I presume both Breaux and and Richardson are Catholics. Havent had one on a national ticket in quite some time - (Geraldine Ferraro?) Does that still matter?

General thoughts
Wild card - the economy - signs of growth - employment often lags - strong employment growth by 3rd quarter could impact things.


For Policy - a large portion of the swing vote will be very concerned with this. wild cards:if things break well in Iraq - Ayatollah Sistani could influence the US election.
Revolution in Iran. and of course capturing an AQ big wig, OBL or Zawahiri.

Kerry - can he make the case to the center that he has a plan for building democracy in Iraq and the region in general. (I think he should promise to make Lieberman his Sec of State - didnt Bush make that promise wrt to Powell before the 2000 election?)
__________________
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
lord of the mark is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 17:37   #68
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Quote:
GHW Bush, Nixon, Johnson, Truman, Coolidge....... Not exactly a dead end job.
If we take out those who have taken over when the President dies (Johnson, Teddy Roosevelt, Truman, Andrew Johnson) and after the passage of the amendment which makes the Prez and VP a ticket, three out of how many Presidents is considered usually?

Unless you think they are counting on Kerry to get killed?
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

Last edited by Imran Siddiqui; February 4, 2004 at 17:43.
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 17:41   #69
chequita guevara
ACDG The Human HiveDiplomacyApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
chequita guevara's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Fort LOLderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Posts: 9,091
Graham would probably carry Florida. He is very popular here.
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
chequita guevara is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 17:44   #70
Guynemer
C4WDG The GooniesCiv4 SP Democracy GameBtS Tri-League
Emperor
 
Guynemer's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: here
Posts: 8,349
Lieberman as Sec. of State?

Meh. He doesn't exactly fire people up.

But there is one guy people get really excited about--Colin Powell.


Hear me out on this. Powell is what is derisively referring to in many circles as a RINO--Republican in name only. It is one of the worst kept secrets in government that he has been at odds with the rest of the Administration over a number of issues. There has been much speculation of whether he would return for a second term with Bush. However, he might--a very small chance, but a chance all the same--be amenable to serving as Sec. of State under a Democratic admin that would be more likely to share his foreign policy views. Or Sec. of Defense.

I also wouldn't be the least bit shocked to see John McCain offered a high-level cabinet post in a Kerry administration.
__________________
"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"Strange is it that our bloods, of colour, weight, and heat, pour'd all together, would quite confound distinction, yet stand off in differences so mighty." --William Shakespeare
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
Guynemer is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 17:52   #71
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
Quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
General thoughts
Wild card - the economy - signs of growth - employment often lags - strong employment growth by 3rd quarter could impact things.
Well, while growht in the third quarter was strong, growth in the fourth quarter, while there, as not nearly as strong. The economy has to grow at unprecedented rates to make up for the job loses.

Quote:
Kerry - can he make the case to the center that he has a plan for building democracy in Iraq and the region in general. (I think he should promise to make Lieberman his Sec of State - didnt Bush make that promise wrt to Powell before the 2000 election?)
Lieberman has no base of support to bring to the table. Powell was beating Bush in the polls back 1999. Liberman ran, and failed.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 17:57   #72
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Quote:
However, he might--a very small chance, but a chance all the same--be amenable to serving as Sec. of State under a Democratic admin that would be more likely to share his foreign policy views.
Not a chance, Guy. Not a chance. If Powell was amenable to serving in a Dem administration, Clinton would have swooped him up (he was trying as well).
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 18:04   #73
Ogie Oglethorpe
ACDG3 Spartans
Emperor
 
Ogie Oglethorpe's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 3,521
Quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Quote:
The other southern candidates are not as strong in terms of secondary support, that Edwards has.
That's because he's the only one running. Here is a partial list of the Southern Democrat Senators retiring this year:

Bob Graham - FLA
John Breaux - LA
Zell Miller - GA
Fritz Hollings - SC

I think Breaux or Miller would be a great pick for Kerry. They are both conservative southern Dems who have experience (especially Miller) and are wildly popular in their home states and in the South. MUCH more so than Edwards.

IF a Big Big IF, Kerry could persuade Miller as VP, Kerry would be a lock. All of a sudden the Bush South lock is broken wide open.

I do however doubt Zell would agree to be VP.

OTOH, if Bush talked Cheney out of a second go 'round and drafted Rudy J. as his VP, he would have a much more solid chance in the North east.
__________________
"Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter
Ogie Oglethorpe is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 18:30   #74
GePap
Emperor
 
GePap's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: of the Big Apple
Posts: 4,109
Quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
OTOH, if Bush talked Cheney out of a second go 'round and drafted Rudy J. as his VP, he would have a much more solid chance in the North east.
Nah, people in NYC still remember rudy before 9/11. His image as a saint is large in upstate NY perhaps, and outside on NYC. Sure, he is still popular int eh tri-satte area due to 9/11, but he could not bring Bush any states. Certainly not NY or NJ.
__________________
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake :(
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
GePap is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 19:31   #75
Ramo
Apolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
Ramo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
Edwards is definitely Kerry's best choice. He's obviously an incredible campaigner (as was emphatically not the case with Lieberman in 2000), connects really well with ordinary people and the backbone of the Democratic Party with his working class background and his focus on poverty. And the NC appeal also carries to vital places like WV and Ohio.

Graham would be an interesting pick as well, insuring the win of Florida.

Breaux is a possibility, but probably wouldn't be enough to carry Louisiana, so might not be worth it (being not a particularly interesting candidate). Miller is similar WRT Georgia, and is an insult to the left by picking the leader of the Democrats for Bush movement, a recipe to depress votes.

Quote:
I think he should promise to make Lieberman his Sec of State
Why do you say that? He's obviously seen as out of step with mainstream Democratic foreign policy; and as the incredible turnout at the primaries have demonstrated, getting your base excited enough to vote is what will win the election.
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
Ramo is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 19:57   #76
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Quote:
Nah, people in NYC still remember rudy before 9/11. His image as a saint is large in upstate NY perhaps, and outside on NYC. Sure, he is still popular int eh tri-satte area due to 9/11, but he could not bring Bush any states. Certainly not NY or NJ.
His appeal would go beyond that. Higher up in New England and in the Great Lakes people still love Rudy as the 'guy who cleaned up New York' and, of course, 'Mayor Hero' (TM).
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 21:19   #77
Capt Dizle
ACDG3 Gaians
King
 
Local Time: 12:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,657
Quote:
Originally posted by randomturn

Jimmytrick, in general:
With regard to Bush getting 400 electoral college votes, I'll bet you $1,000 right now that doens't happen. Barring the capture of OBL, I'll be amazed if Bush wins at all, given his record on jobs, health care, the defecit, the size and spending of his government, education, the environment, immigration, and his open patronage of corporations and the ultra-wealthy. If there's a blow-out, it's more likely to be against the Reps rather than for them.
If Kerry is the nominee I put $2,000 on Bush to get 370 or more electoral votes. If Ming agrees to hold the money.

The whole $2k to Ming within 10 days of the nomination.

Game?
Capt Dizle is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 21:42   #78
Edan
Warlord
 
Edan's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 234
Quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Quote:
Miller has endorsed Bush for president. Makes it kinda unlikely, I think.
That was before the primary. Think of the coup! Miller endorsed Bush, but now realizes Kerry is better. After all, you once had a veep who refered to his President's economic plan as 'voodoo economics'.
Two problems:

1. (the biggie) Miller has to actually "realize" that Kerry is better than Bush.
2. You'll have people who'll say "I'm torn between Miller and Bush, but even Miller said that the the Bush would make a good president, too".
__________________
"I read a book twice as fast as anybody else. First, I read the beginning, and then I read the ending, and then I start in the middle and read toward whatever end I like best." - Gracie Allen
Edan is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 21:52   #79
joncha
MacNationStates
Emperor
 
joncha's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:27
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Communist Party of Apolyton
Posts: 7,173
The bottom line with Miller (and its been Lieberman's problem the whole time) is why vote for Bush Lite when you can have the real thing? If the democrats try to act like republicans in order to gain a southern state they will lose and lose big. This is the lesson of the 2000 election. The only reason more people didn't vote for Nader was the scare tactics and arm twisting of the dems in the final days of the campaign. Rule number one in politics is don't alienate your base.

jon.
__________________
If Tehben spits eggs at you, jump on them and throw them back. ~ WTF is Eventis? ~ Belgium Doesn't Exist!

And just in case a disputant, calls you to dispute about their claims,
Do not, then, dispute on them, except by way of an external dispute.
joncha is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 21:53   #80
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Quote:
If the democrats try to act like republicans in order to gain a southern state they will lose and lose big. This is the lesson of the 2000 election.
The Dems DID NOT LOSE BIG! They almost won. A better campaigner at the top of the ticket, and they would have won it.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 21:56   #81
DinoDoc
Civilization II Democracy GameApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
DinoDoc's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
Quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
The Dems DID NOT LOSE BIG! They almost won. A better campaigner at the top of the ticket, and they would have won it.
You could probably say that about any election.
DinoDoc is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 22:00   #82
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
I meant marginally better... not like Mondale to Clinton better.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 22:05   #83
Guynemer
C4WDG The GooniesCiv4 SP Democracy GameBtS Tri-League
Emperor
 
Guynemer's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: here
Posts: 8,349
Why is jimmytrick handing out free money?
__________________
"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"Strange is it that our bloods, of colour, weight, and heat, pour'd all together, would quite confound distinction, yet stand off in differences so mighty." --William Shakespeare
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
Guynemer is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 22:17   #84
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
It's jimmytrick... nuff said.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 22:40   #85
Capt Dizle
ACDG3 Gaians
King
 
Local Time: 12:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,657
Quote:
Originally posted by Guynemer
Why is jimmytrick handing out free money?
We are compassionate conservatives.

I offer one thousand points of light to brighten your day.
Capt Dizle is offline  
Old February 4, 2004, 22:43   #86
Guynemer
C4WDG The GooniesCiv4 SP Democracy GameBtS Tri-League
Emperor
 
Guynemer's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: here
Posts: 8,349
If only I had one thousand points of light to wager.
__________________
"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"Strange is it that our bloods, of colour, weight, and heat, pour'd all together, would quite confound distinction, yet stand off in differences so mighty." --William Shakespeare
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
Guynemer is offline  
Old February 5, 2004, 00:07   #87
MrFun
Emperor
 
MrFun's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,595
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmytrick


If Kerry is the nominee I put $2,000 on Bush to get 370 or more electoral votes. If Ming agrees to hold the money.

The whole $2k to Ming within 10 days of the nomination.

Game?
Your arrogance is so great, I can smell it from my apartment.
__________________
STFU and then GTFO!
MrFun is offline  
Old February 5, 2004, 00:10   #88
Kuciwalker
Deity
 
Kuciwalker's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
I'd take jimmytrick's bet, but I don't have $2000 (not that I'd ever have to pay up...)
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
Kuciwalker is offline  
Old February 5, 2004, 00:37   #89
OzzyKP
staff
ApolyCon 06 ParticipantsDiploGamesPolyCast TeamCivilization IV: MultiplayerC4DG The Mercenary TeamApolytoners Hall of Fame
ACS Staff Member
 
OzzyKP's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 10,595
I seriously doubt we'll see Miller. Too conservative to be asked, to conservative to accept.

Richardson is a fantastic suggestion. Bush is gonna be relying heavily on picking up more hispanic voters, if the Dems get a hispanic (though I never would have guessed it if people didn't keep saying it) as Veep, the Dems will totally undercut Bush. Plus strength in southwest swing states would be huge.

Edwards would be good, but I am not confident at all he'd accept the position. I'm amazed he is 50 though, he looks under 40.

Any other popular governors Kerry could tap? Penn's governor maybe? To hopefully get Ohio and WV?

But then again lets examine Bush's choice for Veep in 2000. No one could have predicted that. Dick Cheney was off everyone's radar, and he was from Wyoming. Wyoming as as much a Republican lock as anything. So geography isn't always the reason for a pick. Bush was worried about charges of inexperience, so picked a long standing veteran to strengthen the ticket.

The best way to find out who the Veep will be is to determine some of Kerry's weaknesses. Being from the northeast is just one, but not the only one.

Northeastern
Washington insider
liberal
Little executive experience
elite
hazy policy record over his Senate term

in fact let me repeat "elite" he is winning the primaries now cause he appears presidential, but up against good ol' boy, charismatic Bush, Kerry is gonna get hammered for being a plastic, east coast elite. He may not be robot Al Gore, but he is damn far from Clinton. Bush is gonna paint him as detached from the people, stuck in Washington too long, out of touch with America, etc. This is gonna be Kerry's big weakness, he is gonna need a Veep to address this.

In light of that... I suppose Edwards really is the best choice. Damn, he is screwed if he can't get Edwards, and in a damn nice spot if he does.

Who else compliments his weaknesses?
__________________
I was thinking to use a male-male jack and record it. - Albert Speer

When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah
OzzyKP is offline  
Old February 5, 2004, 00:48   #90
Imran Siddiqui
staff
Apolytoners Hall of FameAge of Nations TeamPolyCast Team
 
Imran Siddiqui's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
Quote:
I'm amazed he is 50 though, he looks under 40.
Doesn't he though? He looks like he is 39 or something.

Quote:
Penn's governor maybe?
I don't think Rendell will go for it in his first term. He may wish to fix up the state and I think Kerry doesn't want to go for a Northeasterner.

Quote:
Who else compliments his weaknesses?
The problem is Southern governors were swept out in the 2002 elections. Barnes of GA or the old Dem governor in SC would have been great, especially since they were for taking down the Confederate flag, which will be good for the base, even if they are fairly conservative in other aspects. That could have been nice... but not anymore.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Imran Siddiqui is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 13:27.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team