Kerry Took Cash From Chinese Military Intelligence

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by MrFun
It's not an attitude -- it's reality.

There are no Democrats today, nor Republicans today, that are not corrupt in one way or another -- from something minor, to something significant.

Let me help you out here. The system is corrupt. All Americans have a vote but we do not all have a voice. When folks go into Washington as elected representatvies of the people they run into a stone wall built by over hundreds of years by lobbyists.

These lobbyists serve monied interests, the wealthy individuals and corporations. They do not care about the needs of the average american.

The middle class and working poor have the vote but they have no voice. They can't afford to flood congress with lobbyists. They depend on their elected officials to speak for them.

But the elected officials can't. Whenever an issue comes up the very information they get to review is prepared by or heavily influenced by lobbyists. Oh, out of deference to partisianship you will have your progressive version of the facts and the conservative version but their is no objective positions even tabled for consideration. If a Congressman takes a position outside of these norms then they irelevant to the process.

National lobbies welcome new Congressmen into the fold with the equivalent of guaranteed reelections for years, if they play the game, and little chance for a second term if they do not. It's called campaign money.

So, the Congress forgets that they are supposed to be the voice of the people and become pawns in the game of competing special interests.

This is why so many people do not vote.

And this is why many people who do gravitate to outsider candidates. Only with them is any real change possible.

And this is why electability is such a big issue. We all know that we can vote for Ross or Ralph for the next two hundred years and we all know that they can never win.

Insiders are having a harder and harder time wining the White House because people want real change. Carter, Reagan, Clinton, and Bush ran from the outside. Dean got early interest as an outsider this year but fizzled. That leaves only Edwards with a real chance to catch the public's imagination. Otherwise Bush wins by default. No insider longterm Senator from the northeast is going to win.

Even if he did, or if Edwards wins, it is hard to see how much change we can get. The best chance for change would be Edwards in '08, riding the crest of a grass roots populist effort.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

I'm sorry, I thought this was old news.

[Capt Dizle]

And I will say something else. When Kerry says that the lobbyists are going to be out when he gets to Washington, that statement is false on its face. He says, "Don't let the door hit you on the way out".

The government can't function without lobbyists. It would not know where the freaking bathroom is without a lobbyist to point it out.

It is no more than campaign rhetoric.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Good Post JT

[Japher]

Whose this Kerry guy anyway?

Oh, and MrFun I'm a republican whose not corrupt... at least not much

[Patroklos]

If your premise is that all politicians are corrupt, or that every time Bush is "proved" to be republicans gloss over it, then how can you come here and say it doesn't matter that Kerry is?

Its pathetically partisain, your line changes from thread to thread.

[DinoDoc]

If you reanimated Al Capone, made him a Democrat, and told people he could beat Dubya I'm willing to bet a lot of people in this thread would vote for him.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by jimmytrick


Let me help you out here. The system is corrupt. All Americans have a vote but we do not all have a voice. When folks go into Washington as elected representatvies of the people they run into a stone wall built by over hundreds of years by lobbyists.

These lobbyists serve monied interests, the wealthy individuals and corporations. They do not care about the needs of the average american.

The middle class and working poor have the vote but they have no voice. They can't afford to flood congress with lobbyists. They depend on their elected officials to speak for them.

But the elected officials can't. Whenever an issue comes up the very information they get to review is prepared by or heavily influenced by lobbyists. Oh, out of deference to partisianship you will have your progressive version of the facts and the conservative version but their is no objective positions even tabled for consideration. If a Congressman takes a position outside of these norms then they irelevant to the process.

National lobbies welcome new Congressmen into the fold with the equivalent of guaranteed reelections for years, if they play the game, and little chance for a second term if they do not. It's called campaign money.

So, the Congress forgets that they are supposed to be the voice of the people and become pawns in the game of competing special interests.

This is why so many people do not vote.

And this is why many people who do gravitate to outsider candidates. Only with them is any real change possible.

And this is why electability is such a big issue. We all know that we can vote for Ross or Ralph for the next two hundred years and we all know that they can never win.

Insiders are having a harder and harder time wining the White House because people want real change. Carter, Reagan, Clinton, and Bush ran from the outside. Dean got early interest as an outsider this year but fizzled. That leaves only Edwards with a real chance to catch the public's imagination. Otherwise Bush wins by default. No insider longterm Senator from the northeast is going to win.

Even if he did, or if Edwards wins, it is hard to see how much change we can get. The best chance for change would be Edwards in '08, riding the crest of a grass roots populist effort.

Good post -- thanks for agreeing with me on why all politicians are corrupt - because the corrupt system has poisoned them.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Patroklos
If your premise is that all politicians are corrupt, or that every time Bush is "proved" to be republicans gloss over it, then how can you come here and say it doesn't matter that Kerry is?

Its pathetically partisain, your line changes from thread to thread.

Note that included Democrats and Republicans in my statement of corrupt politicians.


Also, I do find myself angry with the Bush administration's shady dealings. But I also know that because there is no uncorrupt politician for me to vote for, I have no choice but to try to pick the cleanest mudball.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Japher
Whose this Kerry guy anyway?

Oh, and MrFun I'm a republican whose not corrupt... at least not much

I'm not talking about Republican and Democratic voters. I'm talking about Republican and Democratic politicians.

[debeest]

This does sound like a pretty desperate stretch. As Drogue implied, if there was any problem here, wouldn't it be a Clinton problem and not a Kerry problem?

[GePap]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
If you reanimated Al Capone, made him a Democrat, and told people he could beat Dubya I'm willing to bet a lot of people in this thread would vote for him.

And yet no one here has yet answered why Kerry did not even come up back when this was "hot news" and republicans were out there calling Clinton a traitor...

I bet if we ressurected Atilla the Hun, said he was pro-life and that he could keep the WH in republican hands, plenty of people here would vote for him as well-which proves sh1t.

[Japher]

I'm talking about Republican and Democratic politicians

Well, yeah, all politicians are corrupt. Yet, only because who ever they run against pulls out their dirty laundry and airs it to the world... Then, if there is no dirty laundry you just make it up, like Gov. Arhnold molesting women.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Well, not to quibble but the Democratic party did traffic with Stalin and allow Mao to come to power in China, a mess the Republican party is still dealing with.

#1, would you rather be speaking German? Let's see, dealing with Stalin or letting the Nazis conquer the world, hmmm, tough choice there.

#2, if Imperial Japan, the Nationalist Chinese, and the backstabbing of Stalin couldn't stop Mao, what chance do you think the Americans had? In any event, it isn't as if Truman didn't try and stop the Reds. They did, they just failed. The U.S. isn't all-powerful you know.

[MrFun]

Actually Japher, a couple of weeks ago -- IIRC -- CNN reported that Arnold was accused of illegally borrowing money. Or something along that line.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by GePap
...well-which proves sh1t.

I was just having a good natured go at the statement, "I would vote for Al Sharpton before Bush."

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by rah
Once the nominating conventions are over, I'm sure that will start again.

It's the lead story on Salon today.

Bush's Missing Year.

[Japher]

Campaign stuff, or something... still, compared to Davis, Arnie is awesome

I just like having a repub back in office... I miss Pete Wilson

[MrFun]

You're a sick man, Japher -- but I still love ya.

[boann]

Originally posted by Berzerker
OUCH!!! And I just posted a positive thread about Kerry... There's no point in trying to extol the virtues of any of these people, it'll just come back to bite you on the a$$.

berz buddy i saw it ....don't feel bad...... i don't know who or what im going to vote .... so much mud flying around and its going to get more dirty... get out the tarps don't you think politics is a bit like being at a Gallagher show

[chequita guevara]

Anyone who believes a Newsmax story needs to be hospitalized for stupidity so severe they are a danger to themselves and others.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

at Boann's Gallagher

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Patroklos
If your premise is that all politicians are corrupt, or that every time Bush is "proved" to be republicans gloss over it, then how can you come here and say it doesn't matter that Kerry is?

Its pathetically partisain, your line changes from thread to thread.

Oh, and one more thing -- for the record -- I lost all respect for Billie Clinton during his second term in office for several dumb things he did.

[chequita guevara]

Took ya that long?

[MrFun]

whatever, Che

[GePap]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I was just having a good natured go at the statement, "I would vote for Al Sharpton before Bush."

I ould vote for Bush over a re-animated Cappone solely becuase I am a bigot vs. the undead.

[boann]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
at Boann's Gallagher

im so glad someone got that

[Patroklos]

MrFun,

You are a rare exception as you do seem to apply the same standards to all sides. I will admit that I am biased in that I would rather see Kerrey slandered than Bush, but if Bush had accepted money from China I would be all over that too.

And there is a big difference between bieng wrong and corrupt.

[MrFun]

That's the whole problem with spins that we get from politicians who pull explanations out from the seventh dimension Pat -- makes it difficult to determine if Bush has been an idiot, or is lying.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Patroklos
MrFun,

You are a rare exception . . .

Now you've done. His head is gonna be swelled for days. Thanks.