How far did the Gibson apple fall from the tree?

[Sava]

Holocaust exaggerated: Gibson dad
From correspondents in New York
19feb04

A WEEK before the United States release of Mel Gibson's controversial movie, The Passion of the Christ, the filmmaker's father has repeated claims the Holocaust was exaggerated.

Hutton Gibson's comments, made in a telephone interview with New York radio talk show host Steve Feuerstein, come at an awkward time for the actor-director who has been trying to deflect criticism from Jewish groups that his film might inflame anti-Semitic sentiment.
In his interview on WSNR radio's Speak Your Piece, to be broadcast on Monday, Hutton Gibson, argued that many European Jews counted as death camp victims of the Nazi regime had in fact fled to countries like Australia and the United States.

"It's all - maybe not all fiction - but most of it is," he said, adding that the gas chambers and crematoria at camps like Auschwitz would not have been capable of exterminating so many people.

"Do you know what it takes to get rid of a dead body? To cremate it?" he said. "It takes a litre of petrol and 20 minutes. Now, six million of them? They (the Germans) did not have the gas to do it. That's why they lost the war."

Gibson's father caused a furore last year when he made similar remarks in a New York Times article.

In a television interview with Diane Sawyer this week, Mel Gibson accused the Times of taking advantage of his father, and he warned Sawyer against broaching the subject again.

"He's my father. Gotta leave it alone Diane. Gotta leave it alone," Gibson said, while offering his own perspective on the Holocaust.

"Do I believe that there were concentration camps where defenceless and innocent Jews died cruelly under the Nazi regime? Of course I do; absolutely," he said. "It was an atrocity of monumental proportion."

During his lengthy radio interview, Hutton Gibson, 85, said Jews were out to create "one world religion and one world government" and outlined a conspiracy theory involving Jewish bankers, the US Federal Reserve and the Vatican, among others.

The Passion, which gets its US release on February 25, purports to be a faithful and graphic account of Christ's last 12 hours on earth.

Jewish leaders who have attended advance screenings have voiced concerns that its portrayal of the Jews' role in Christ's execution could stir up anti-Semitic feeling.

from http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E1702,00.html

I think the media has been blowing the whole Passion thing out of proportion... it's a ****ing movie people...

But I am not sure Jewish groups are all that wrong when talking about Gibson's motives for making this movie or Gibson's feelings about Jews. Mel's dad is one of those Holocaust denial morons... I wonder how far the apple fell from the tree.

[Caligastia]

It's quite possible Gibson has been influenced in this way by his father, but I'll reserve judgement on the movie till I see it.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Caligastia
It's quite possible Gibson has been influenced in this way by his father, but I'll reserve judgement on the movie till I see it.

agreed... but this isn't about the movie

[Caligastia]

I guess it depends on how close Mel is with his dad.

[DanS]

Mel Gibson's father is his own man. Sometimes people are mentally ill or demented (the Vatican is involved in the conspiracy? ), so Mel Gibson shouldn't be painted with that brush. I have an uncle who's totally off his rocker, and I try not to hold it against his family.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Caligastia
I guess it depends on how close Mel is with his dad.

which is the question I pose

[JohnT]

Why do you think WE would know?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Sava
which is the question I pose

I don't really have anything to add then...carry on.

[Shi Huangdi]

Well Gibson certainly hasn't said anything vitroilic as his father, nor is their any indication he does. It really wouldn't be fair to judge someone based on their parents.

[DinoDoc]

Personally, I'd like to know why people keep assuming the movie is anti-Jewish.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

"Gibson's father caused a furore last year when he made similar remarks in a New York Times article."

Yeah, I bet he'd like the cause of the Fuhrer

ZING!

[Caligastia]

I think we should argue about this for the sake of arguing.

Gibson is a filthy anti-semite.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Personally, I'd like to know why people keep assuming the movie is anti-Jewish.

Well, the Jewish people who have seen it coming out and saying it reeks of anti-Jewishness might be helping that case.

Yeah, Gibson's father is a scumbag. But that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Mel's being his own asshat.

[Shi Huangdi]

"Well, the Jewish people who have seen it coming out and saying it reeks of anti-Jewishness might be helping that case."

Some Jewish groups, but not all, said it may inspire Anti-Semitism. The major one (ADL) certainly did not say it reeked of anti-Jewishness. Moreover, the most offensive scene in the move that Jewish groups complained about was removed.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Some Jewish groups, but not all, said it may inspire Anti-Semitism. The major one (ADL) certainly did not say it reeked of anti-Jewishness.

http://www.adl.org/adl.asp

Suggest you look at their concerns.

Regardless, DD's question was asking why people were assuming such a thing, and I was providing a pretty reasonable answer.

Moreover, the most offensive scene in the move that Jewish groups complained about was removed.

The fact that such a scene was there in the first place and that Gibson had to remove it under such pressure doesn't bode well in his defense that he isn't on some level promoting an anti-Jewish message.

[FS*]

It's pure sensationalism. The media has no business dragging family and related personal issues into the spotlight.

Whether the man is misguided, senile or whatever, this is a private issue between father and son.

[DanS]

Well, to be fair, his father dragged the family into the spotlight, not the press. Giving interviews, etc. But of course, Mel Gibson is not his father.

[Arrian]

I'm rather glad I'm not famous. The stuff my father says!

He's 78 yrs old and loves to push buttons. Especially mine, but a reporter would do.

-Arrian

[Edan]

Well, for me, the jury's still out on Mel Gibson. There is this disturbingly vague statement by Mel:

'You're going to have to go on record. The Holocaust happened, right?"
Peggy Noonan asks of Mel Gibson in the Reader's Digest for March.

Gibson: "I have friends and parents of friends who have numbers on their
arms. The guy who taught me Spanish was a Holocaust survivor. He worked
in a concentration camp in France. Yes, of course. Atrocities happened. War
is horrible. The Second World War killed tens of millions of people. Some of
them were Jews in concentration camps. Many people lost their lives. In the
Ukraine, several million starved to death between 1932 and 1933. During the
last century, 20 million people died in the Soviet Union."

which not only tries to cast the holocaust as just any other "war is hell" evil of war, and doesn't specifically state that there was a planned operation to commit genocide and no mention of death camps, there have also been comparisons made to some holocaust deniers who admit that Jews died in concentration camps but who claim that the number of dead Jews is like 20X too large.

Given that he's trying to be "on the record", you would think he would try to avoid being vague.

and of course, in light of the first post in the thread:

Of
his dad, Gibson says, "My dad taught me my faith, and I believe what he
taught me. The man never lied to me in his life."

But like I said, for me, the jury's still out... Maybe Mel will try harder not to be vague the next time he's on the record...

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Suggest you look at their concerns.

Providing it is faithful to the Biblical account I fail to see how it could be portrayed as anti-jew especially in light of the fact that Jesus is a Jew, unless of course one would go about argueing that the Synoptic Gospels are Anti-Jewish.

Besides only an unreachable idiot would assume that one act 2000 years ago, would justify hatred of a group of people today.

[DanS]

Maybe Mel will try harder not to be vague the next time he's on the record...

Why would he want to be more specific? He's no historian. He's a filmmaker, Jim!

[MLeonard]

I'm giving Mel the benefit of the doubt until I see the movie. My grandfather was Jewish and I was raised Episcopalian so I feel like I'll have a fairly balanced view of things when I see the film, especially since I've just started studying the Bible in my classes. It's all fresh in my mind!

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Providing it is faithful to the Biblical account I fail to see how it could be portrayed as anti-jew especially in light of the fact that Jesus is a Jew, unless of course one would go about argueing that the Synoptic Gospels are Anti-Jewish.

Many do feel the account in the Gospels is a heavily Romanized account designed to shift blame from the Romans for executing Jesus to the Jews. John, especially, is a very Hellenized version of the story and does the most to further this perception.

Besides only an unreachable idiot would assume that one act 2000 years ago, would justify hatred of a group of people today.

We are talking about anti-Semites here, not exactly a group known for its brainpower. Just look Gibson's father's stupidity.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Many do feel the account in the Gospels is a heavily Romanized account designed to shift blame from the Romans for executing Jesus to the Jews.

True or not, that is his source material and I'd be suprised if he was willing to stray too far from it.

[Edan]

Originally posted by DanS


Why would he want to be more specific? He's no historian. He's a filmmaker, Jim!

except when it comes to this movie - he's aparently both.

[Ben Kenobi]

Jewish people who have seen it coming out and saying it reeks of anti-Jewishness might be helping that case.

So because one group believes that the portrayal is anti-semetic makes it so?

[Edan]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Providing it is faithful to the Biblical account I fail to see how it could be portrayed as anti-jew especially in light of the fact that Jesus is a Jew, unless of course one would go about argueing that the Synoptic Gospels are Anti-Jewish.[/qb]

Well, politics and religion frequently mixed back then - it's certainly feasable that the works were biased to try to distance Christianity from Judaism.

And stuff like "His blood by on us and our children" certainly ain't helpful for interfaith relations.

As to the movie's biblical source, from what I've read, some scenes from the movie are based on the writings of a 19th century nun.

Besides only an unreachable idiot would assume that one act 2000 years ago, would justify hatred of a group of people today.

Well, bigots aren't generally known for their rationality....

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So because one group believes that the portrayal is anti-semetic makes it so?

Who said that was the case?

[MrFun]

I saw a brief interview on CNN a few days ago, where a Jewish rabbi explained that the Jews who are protesting against this movie are doing a disservice to their own people by blowing this out of proportion.

[Arrian]

Anything at all like the Christian idjits who protested Dogma without actually seeing the film?

Of course, PotC appears to be a serious attempt, whereas Dogma was irreverent in the extreme (with a little bit of serious message thrown in).

-Arrian