In which all but the most conservative polypeople have a stroke... - Page 3

PLATO · February 22, 2004, 02:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Spiffor

Yup, but it is not their role to teach discipline IMHO. And enforcement of discipline at school definitely doesn't requires corporeal punishment: put the unruly kid one hour in an empty room (except for the warden), where he'll get bored like hell, have him lectured by the director, or simply give him bad marks and warn the parents for them to teach their kid accordingly.

Spiffor, This simply does not work. Great idea...no practical value. Most of the kids that misbehave are also poor students. What jackass came up with the idea of taking poor students, who don't want to be in class anyway, out of the classroom as punishment? I can tell you for a fact that this is no problem to the kids. Now threaten to bust them and suddenly, magically, they become reasonable and want to try to improve.

Ned · February 22, 2004, 05:59

I read this entire thread without encountering one explanation as to why corporal punishment is morally wrong when it is acknowledged to be effective with respect to kids of a relatively young age. Lack of discipline plagues many school systems in United States and is a proximate cause of the very poor education of American youth. Corporal punishment may be just the ticket for correcting the decline in American education.

Dis · February 22, 2004, 06:00

yes. I was never punished physically as a kid. And look how bad I turned out...

Asher · February 22, 2004, 06:10

I live in a civilized country, and I was never paddled, nor smacked, nor physically touched in any manner that could be construed as violent. Nor has anyone that I know of in my years of public schooling, and we had no problems really.

I think there are better ways, even though I won't deny corporal punishment is effective and sometimes most effective, it's not the only effective way for most children.

Ned · February 22, 2004, 06:15

Asher, I went to Catholic schools growing up. We were not corporally punished, but we had discipline.

My Daughter went to public schools both in Minnesota and California. The kids were well disciplined in Minnesota and utterly undisciplined in California. The schools were like that in 1975 as well when I visited my nephew's school in San Diego. Complete chaos.

Thus, I know that schools can be well disciplined without corporal punishment. However, when one sees what is going on in California, one begins to wonder if there is any realistic alternative.

Asher · February 22, 2004, 06:17

I went to school in California for four years, grades 5 through 8, and I don't see what you're talking about. It was a fine learning environment.

Ned · February 22, 2004, 06:21

Asher, good for you.

Where did you go to school?

Asher · February 22, 2004, 06:24

San Ramon. It's a suburb in the Bay Area.

Ted Striker · February 22, 2004, 06:25

Let's be honest:

Today's schools are churning out mentally weak pussies by the droves.

Sometimes the best thing you can give somebody is a swift kick in the azz. You then follow this up later by talking to them to build them back up. You can't just kick their azz and then just leave them there, that makes them get worse. But if you kick their azz and then follow it up with encouragement, that is a solid method of shaping a young kid's mind. Certainly he will remember it for a very long time.

Being sensitive and being tough are not mutually exclusive

John Kerry is an example of the kind of person who is both tough (has 3 Purple Hearts) but also sensitive to others (took up the plight of US atrocities in Vietnam)

Ted Striker · February 22, 2004, 06:25

We need to look to men like Kerry to shape our youth

Not Oprah

Ned · February 22, 2004, 06:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
San Ramon. It's a suburb in the Bay Area.

I am willing to bet that you got a relatively good education there as well.

I wonder why some schools are completely out of control and others well disciplined?

Ned · February 22, 2004, 06:30

Plight of US attrocities in Vietnam!!!

Kerry has earned the undying opprobrium of Vietnam veterans for that!!!!!

Dis · February 22, 2004, 06:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Let's be honest:

Today's schools are churning out mentally weak pussies by the droves.

Sometimes the best thing you can give somebody is a swift kick in the azz. You then follow this up later by talking to them to build them back up. You can't just kick their azz and then just leave them there, that makes them get worse. But if you kick their azz and then follow it up with encouragement, that is a solid method of shaping a young kid's mind. Certainly he will remember it for a very long time.

Being sensitive and being tough are not mutually exclusive

John Kerry is an example of the kind of person who is both tough (has 3 Purple Hearts) but also sensitive to others (took up the plight of US atrocities in Vietnam)

Kerry is a weasal politician. He flip-flops on issues so often it makes me sick. I'm getting tired of him bringup up his Vietnam experience.

But I don't like what Bush is doing to the country (and to science especially). I may just abstain this election.

Ted Striker · February 22, 2004, 06:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
Plight of US attrocities in Vietnam!!!

Kerry has earned the undying opprobrium of Vietnam veterans for that!!!!!

He IS a vet dude

Got wounded 3 times doing it too

He not only talked the talk but he actually walked it.

He was fighting FOR the common soldier, blasting guys like MacNamera and lower level commanders for doing sh1t like sending a bunch of kids to die for countless stupid hills that were abandoned the next day.

Ned · February 22, 2004, 06:53

Ted, you don't have a clue.

Kerry would be torn limb from limb if he were to attend a Vietnam Veterans reunion.

Bugs ****ing Bunny · February 22, 2004, 06:54

It all depends on my mood.

If any teacher beats my child and I'm in a good mood, I'll merely press charges of assault/indecent assault.

If I'm in a bad mood, I'll beat the living daylights out of them.

Ned · February 22, 2004, 07:40

Laz, I believe corporal punishment requires parental consent. Does that alter your views?

BTW, how do you or would you handle a kid that was out of control at school?

Bugs ****ing Bunny · February 22, 2004, 09:31

The article suggests that parental consent is not required in Texas. It doesn't change my stance in the slightest- I would give no such consent, and any teacher going ahead and assaulting my child would be taking a great risk. If I can get my offspring to behave without hitting them, I fail to see why my taxes should pay someone incapable of doing likewise.

If a child was out of control? Detention, followed by suspension, followed by expulsion- any subsequent educational needs to be addressed by home schooling or aspecial schools/secure schools experienced in handling behavioral problems.

Boris Godunov · February 22, 2004, 11:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
Ted, you don't have a clue.

Kerry would be torn limb from limb if he were to attend a Vietnam Veterans reunion.

No, Ned, he wouldn't. Most Vietnam Vets respect him and his stances. He's drawing a great deal of support from them.

You should stop getting your ideas from Ted Sampley, a proven liar. You can repeat the same lies if you want, it doesn't make them true.

Boris Godunov · February 22, 2004, 11:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
The article suggests that parental consent is not required in Texas. It doesn't change my stance in the slightest- I would give no such consent, and any teacher going ahead and assaulting my child would be taking a great risk. If I can get my offspring to behave without hitting them, I fail to see why my taxes should pay someone incapable of doing likewise.

If a child was out of control? Detention, followed by suspension, followed by expulsion- any subsequent educational needs to be addressed by home schooling or aspecial schools/secure schools experienced in handling behavioral problems.

No more need be said, IMO. There are plenty of ways to discipline kids without beating them.

Elok · February 22, 2004, 14:25

Oh, and Spiffor, I basically agree with what you said, I was just pointing out that some form of discipline IS required; the question at hand was whether physical beating is an acceptable form of discipline at all.

At least, I think it was. Will somebody please tell me what kind of answer I'm looking for?

The Mad Monk · February 22, 2004, 15:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Let's be honest:
John Kerry is an example of the kind of person who is both tough (has 3 Purple Hearts) but also sensitive to others (took up the plight of US atrocities in Vietnam)

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=109109

Ned · February 22, 2004, 17:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

No, Ned, he wouldn't. Most Vietnam Vets respect him and his stances. He's drawing a great deal of support from them.

You should stop getting your ideas from Ted Sampley, a proven liar. You can repeat the same lies if you want, it doesn't make them true.

We shall see just how many Vietnam veterans consider themselves war criminals and how many come out to support Kerry.

Boris Godunov · February 22, 2004, 18:13

Considering he had 10,000 vets mobilized for his campaign in Iowa alone, I would like to see that.

I knew the Republicans would go down this smear route to try and dilute the obvious difference in military service between Kerry and Bush. That, plus their slashing of veteran's benefits, just goes to show their support for veterans is a crock. They just support military hardware manufacturers.

Ned · February 22, 2004, 18:22

There are 3.5 million Vietnam Veterans.

Ten thousand for Kerry in Iowa? If true, this is impressive. But I guarantee that Kerry's anti-war conduct will be an issue.

molly bloom · February 22, 2004, 18:41

Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

Speak Roughly to Your Little Boy

And with that she began nursing her child again, singing a sort of lullaby to it as she did so, and giving it a violent shake at the end of every line: -- --

"Speak roughly to your little boy,
And beat him when he sneezes;
He only does it to annoy,
Because he knows it teases."

CHORUS
(in which the cook and the baby joined): -- --

"Wow! wow! wow!"

While the Duchess sang the second verse of the song, she kept tossing the baby violently up and down, and the poor little thing howled so, that Alice could hardly hear the words: -- --

"I speak severely to my boy,
I beat him when he sneezes;
For he can thoroughly enjoy
The pepper when he pleases!"

CHORUS

"Wow! wow! wow!"

The people who were caned at my grammar school were the same offenders, time and again. The only lesson it taught them was not to get caught, or to pin the blame on someone else.

The lesson I learned from this was that some people like caning others, some people enjoy abusing their authority, and that beating children is wrong.

Thorn · February 22, 2004, 19:23

if a teacher paddled me I would have put a bullet in their head.

DinoDoc · February 22, 2004, 19:28

Tell us about your time in a Turkish prison again, EvC?

Ted Striker · February 22, 2004, 19:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
Ted, you don't have a clue.

Kerry would be torn limb from limb if he were to attend a Vietnam Veterans reunion.

You've got it wrong. You should have hear the ovation re received at his testimony, all of it coming from vets. He was fighting for the vets most of all, plain and simple.

Certianly there are vets that can't stand Kerry. But they don't understand where he is coming from.

YOU just don't like him because he went directly after Nixon.

Here's an excerpt from his testimony:

Quote:

But the problem with veterans goes beyond this personal problem, because you think about a poster in this country with a picture of Uncle Sam and the picture says: I WANT YOU. And a young man comes out of high school and says: "That is fine, I am going to serve my country," and he goes to Vietnam and he shoots and he kills and he does his job or maybe he doesn't kill, maybe he just goes and he comes back, and when he gets back to this country he finds that he isn't really wanted because the largest unemployment figure in this country - it varies depending on who you get it from, the V.A. 15 per cent, various other sources 22 per cent - but the largest corps of unemployed in this country are veterans of this war, and of those veterans 33 per cent of the unemployed are black. That means one out of every ten of the nation's unemployed is a veteran of Vietnam.

The hospitals across the country won't or can't meet their demands. It is not a question of not trying; they haven't got the appropriations. A man recently died after he had a tracheotomy in California, not because of the operation but because there weren't enough personnel to clean the mucus out of his tube and he suffocated to death.

Another young man just died in a New York V.A. hospital that other day. A friend of mine was lying in a bed two beds away and tried to help him but couldn't. He rang a bell and there was nobody there to service that man and so he died of convulsions.

Fifty-seven per cent, I understand 57 per cent of all those entering the V.A. hospitals talk about suicide. Some 27 per cent have tried, and they try because they come back to this country and they have to face what they did in Vietnam, and then they come back and find the indifference of a country that doesn't really care.

Does that sound like a man who turned his back on his friends to you?

http://members.aol.com/bear317p/kerry.htm

The Emperor Fabulous · February 22, 2004, 20:00

There was this one time in math class my freshman year.

A teacher noticed a student wasn't paying attention. He said "if I come back there and look in your notebook and you haven't taken notes, can I throw you out of your desk?"

The kid, thinking the teacher mental but not irrational, replied "Sure".

The teacher walked to the back, looked in the notebook, and hurled the student onto the floor.

One of the more interesting times at my school in Massachusetts

On a side note, this teacher ended up being one of my favorites, because he knew how to teach.