Desktops - Page 10

Asher · March 16, 2004, 01:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Agathon
Hardly. Rather it is exactly what every thread becomes when you can't admit that you are at odds with the facts.

I'm not at odds with the facts. In fact (pun intended), I've been consistently debunking yours...

Quote:

No it doesn't. It's just that there are two kinds of font smoothing available on Mac OS X and that the standard one works better than anything else for CRT displays. To my eyes Cleartype is clearly inferior on a CRT display. Otherwise the differences are not that great.

But there are two font smoothing on Windows XP too: the standard one, and ClearType... (see attached)

Quote:

Apparently not. Still can't remember where I'd heard that.

Anyway, that looks ugly.

Yes, Agathon, of course it does. It's an ugly language.

Inverse Icarus · March 16, 2004, 01:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher

This page tells you what it is and how it works, very generally: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/...ClearType.mspx

Then enable it and calibrate it here: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/...pe/tuner/1.htm

gah. i have to use IE for this? :sigh:

Asher · March 16, 2004, 01:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Uber KruX
gah. i have to use IE for this? :sigh:

You can enable ClearType just in the "Effects" dialog box under Appearance in the Display properties, but the website allows you to fine-tune it to match your monitor. Click and choose the boxes that render best for you.

It uses ActiveX, so you do need to use IE to use the tuner.

Inverse Icarus · March 16, 2004, 01:30

ugh, it looks really weird to me after so long of not having it. is it normal?

Asher · March 16, 2004, 01:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Uber KruX
ugh, it looks really weird to me after so long of not having it. is it normal?

It does look weird at first after spending many years without it. Just because you're not used to it, it's almost like changing the font on you.

Keep it on for a couple days, then see if you want to turn it off.

Keep in mind that it was designed for use on LCD displays, and it actually looks better on higher-end (more precise) CRTs than low-end CRTs. If you're viewing it on a very cheap or very old CRT, it might just make everything look ****ed up.

Inverse Icarus · March 16, 2004, 01:34

thinkpad T30. hurts my eyes a little. :-X

Drake Tungsten · March 16, 2004, 02:37

God, those kanji on Windows are fugly, even with the font-smoothing turned on. Look at the jagged edges on "kin"!

Asher · March 16, 2004, 02:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
God, those kanji on Windows are fugly, even with the font-smoothing turned on. Look at the jagged edges on "kin"!

Which character is "kin"?

And can you please capture the equivalent OS X "kin" in Arial or a similar font? (I used Arial Unicode).

Asher · March 16, 2004, 02:44

Oops, apparently 200% zoom in Word makes them look worse.

Here's at 100%.

Drake Tungsten · March 16, 2004, 02:46

Quote:

Which character is "kin"?

The one that means "money".

Quote:

And can you please capture the equivalent OS X "kin" in Arial or a similar font? (I used Arial Unicode).

Maybe later; I'm still at work, so I don't have access to my Mac. Don't think I have Arial Unicode, either, but I'll check. I always use Hiragino Mincho Pro for Japanese text.

Q Classic · March 16, 2004, 04:31

still debating this?

you know what was funny?

all four of the examples that i posted (winxp, macos, kde, and gnome), in case you hadn't noticed, were exactly identical.

i made them all in kde 3.2.1 with abiword 2.0.5.

and yet kde still, somehow, looked better than "mac" kde, as some said, or better than "win" kde...

Asher · March 16, 2004, 04:34

Q Cubed.

I said long ago I couldn't tell them apart.

<-- honest
Agathon and Drake are frauds.

Q Classic · March 16, 2004, 04:37

actually, that's not quite true. i only typed the phrases out once; i used the gimp to duplicate them.

Drake Tungsten · March 16, 2004, 04:39

I'm not a fraud so much as I am a troll. For example, I have no idea what this...

Quote:

whenever i work on a mac, i ssh into my desktop and sftp everything i need there.

...means, but I acted like I did just so I could laugh when Glonkie got all bothered and practically gave us his resume trying to prove he knew what it was and how to do it. Great fun...

Asher · March 16, 2004, 04:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
...means, but I acted like I did just so I could laugh when Glonkie got all bothered and practically gave us his resume trying to prove he knew what it was and how to do it. Great fun...

My response was a couple lines followed by a wink.

Do get out more, Drake.

Drake Tungsten · March 16, 2004, 04:41

Quote:

Do get out more, Drake.

My problem is that I go out too much. I'm ****ing knackered...

Asher · March 16, 2004, 04:43

What Q^3 did was great. It shows everyone -- incase they didn't know -- just how biased some Macheads are. They see things that aren't there, constantly.

They agreed "KDE" was better because it was the position of Q^3, a well-known rational moderate, and because Agathon himself has praised KDE products before, so it wasn't much of a stretch.

Rank KDE as first as an attempt to show you're unbiased, rank MacOS second, then put Windows in last.

I suspected as such from the get-go, hence why I said I couldn't tell them apart.

This should help put to rest people's assertions that I'm an MS apologist, and rather put the problem on the Mac-end of the spectrum for being hopelessly biased trolls.

Drake Tungsten · March 16, 2004, 04:54

BTW, thanks for picking the most random characters possible for your example. It's a ***** finding some of these...

edit: And which font size did you use?

Asher · March 16, 2004, 04:55

It was completely random.

Drake Tungsten · March 16, 2004, 05:20

Jesus, these characters aren't even all available in the same fonts. Number one and three seem to be causing the most problems...

Asher · March 16, 2004, 05:24

Is a troll considered a success based on how long the respondants take to make a trivial point?

Oh yeah, and this is clearly a Mac limitation of fonts if you can't use the same font for all that.

Drake Tungsten · March 16, 2004, 05:51

Alright, this is the best I could do. Changed the nikuzuki inside the mon in character one to a hi in order to get a kanji that would display in the same font as the others. Also omitted the last character, as I can't for the life of me figure out which radical will allow me to access the character. Font is also slightly different, but it's the closest I could find that would also display most of the characters.

Drake Tungsten · March 16, 2004, 05:52

Now for a real font (on some of the characters, at least)...

Drake Tungsten · March 16, 2004, 05:55

Quote:

Is a troll considered a success based on how long the respondants take to make a trivial point?

Hey, you asked me to post some pics and I said I would. Excuse me for trying to keep my word; I guess I won't bother next time.

Quote:

Oh yeah, and this is clearly a Mac limitation of fonts if you can't use the same font for all that.

The problem is that most of the characters you typed are traditional Chinese ones, which aren't exhaustively covered by the Japanese fonts I have on my computer. The only way to get them all would be to install all the traditional Chinese fonts I didn't bother with before, but I can't be arsed to do that.

Q Classic · March 16, 2004, 08:28

Quote:

whenever i work on a mac, i ssh into my desktop and sftp everything i need there.

it's great. pretty much all it means that i don't bother with saving my files on the lab computers (which is why i never had asher's 'problem' with the finder's directory display structure), because whether i'm in windows or in linux, i have access to all of my files by remotely logging into my computer. this actually saves me from having my files deleted by some numbnuts, closed out because of space issues, and so on. it's all on my computer, accessible from any computer in the world (so long as my comp is on).

until recently, i could only do this while my computer was in linux, but i've found a free openssh daemon for windows: http://lexa.mckenna.edu/sshwindows/
which works beautifully.

though it was a complete ***** to get it to listen to port 2202 instead of 22, and to get kerio personal firewall AND windows firewall sp2 to allow it. almost as frustrating as iptables, though that's because i can't be bothered to learn all of the vagaries in iptables' commands.

Agathon · March 16, 2004, 10:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Q Cubed
still debating this?

you know what was funny?

all four of the examples that i posted (winxp, macos, kde, and gnome), in case you hadn't noticed, were exactly identical.

i made them all in kde 3.2.1 with abiword 2.0.5.

and yet kde still, somehow, looked better than "mac" kde, as some said, or better than "win" kde...

Well -I followed your labelling and they looked different to me.

Spiffor · March 16, 2004, 11:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Q Cubed
you know what was funny?

all four of the examples that i posted (winxp, macos, kde, and gnome), in case you hadn't noticed, were exactly identical.

Well, I guess I preferred the last one because it looked darker (more contrasted) on my laptop screen.

Barinthus · March 16, 2004, 11:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Asher
On-topic.

Some changes.

Wow, that's a cool wallpaper you got there.

Agathon · March 16, 2004, 11:28

I agree with you Spiff. The last one clearly looked better. If I was a real Mac fanatic I wouldn't have picked KDE anyway.

More to the point, this is yet another reason to install KDE on my machine.

Back to Asher's original article.

It is clearly out of date since font smoothing works all the way down to 4 point in Panther.

Q Classic · March 16, 2004, 15:09

honestly, i can't see how the last one would look better. it was the same image as the first two, merely duplicated.

if you're going to install kde on your mac, might i suggest going all the way and using gentoo/ppc?