Socialist claim victory in Spain

[Whoha]

Originally posted by joncha


Say y'all never messed around there in the first place. Would we even be dealing with this mess now?

Probably.

[Dr. Nick]

That photo looks like it was pulled out of the Pink Panther movies.

[monkspider]

This election is a great victory for the Spanish people. Long live Democracy.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by PLATO
This is the point I was hoping to see debated here. Was the election the result of the terror attacks or would these results have been obtained in any event. If they are the result of the terror attacks then surely this is a dangerous precedent.

The relation of the results to the terror attacks seems to be in reference to the conservative government's handling of the incident, not a result of the incident itself.

But what if it had gone the other way--what if the electorate had gone from supporting PSOE to PP after the attacks? Would you find it as dangerous a precedent?

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Agathon


They do right now and that's what matters. Now is a chance to prove that it works and get everyone on side. More importantly it would be a way for countries like Canada to be able to support the US with the full support of their population.

Now isn't the time for experimentation, especially in the face of repeated failures.

You are placing a HUGE bet on the entire future of the middle east and the Iraqis based on a remote "maybe."

The UN has a track record of failure.

The UN Peacekeepers that were murdered in Africa last year, after calling repeatedly for help or extraction, comes to mind. I don't have the details offhand but I remember how sick it made me.

Blue Hats = doormats

A UN command structure would be the worst possible outcome. Actual doormats make better peacekeepers.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by PLATO
Was the election the result of the terror attacks or would these results have been obtained in any event. If they are the result of the terror attacks then surely this is a dangerous precedent.

From what I've read, it was a result of the attacks, but an indirect one. The main cause of the defeat of the Conservatives was their handling of the situation after the attacks. Obviously if the attacks had not happened, they could not have lied about it.

[Dr Strangelove]

My guess is that we can expect similar attacks before the next elections in Britain and the US.

If the reconstruction of Iraq were to be handed over to the UN I can assure you that al-Qaida would declare open season upon every member participating.

[Ted Striker]

I agree with Doc

[DinoDoc]

If what happened the last time the UN was in Iraq is any indication, they wouldn't have to go that far.

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
My guess is that we can expect similar attacks before the next elections in Britain and the US.

Impossible. We invaded Iraq and got rid of that madman Saddam Hussein. We are much safer now that we have him in custody. We just need to keep invading countries so we can get safer and safer. Infact I have heard many blaming Iran, perhaps Iran needs to be taught a lesson.

Every time there is a regime change, an angel gets it's wings.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
If what happened the last time the UN was in Iraq is any indication, they wouldn't have to go that far.

Why. It turns out they did a very thorough job.

[DinoDoc]

They got bombed once and left. How's that a very thorough job?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
I agree with Doc

Actually I'd rather not agree with me, but under the present circumstances I regret that I must.

[Ted Striker]

true

hopefully the attacks are thwarted

but they are going to be big unfortunatley

we have to be diligent come november

[Lord Merciless]

UN has less spine than your typical earth worms. They watched Gorazde and Srebrenica getting massacred, they left their own soldiers gutted and eaten, and they ran from Iraq after the first bomb.

[DanS]

Congratulations to the Socialists. Even though I don't at all support them, they seem to have won it fair and square.

If I were a Spaniard and voting, I also would have thought twice about the way that the Spanish government handled the news. Don't think it would have changed my vote, but when the vote is so close anyway, a little swing can change the outcome.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Explain me... how did the government handle the news?

[DanS]

By senior officials immediately blaming ETA, without evidence. It's not necessarily a lie, but it shows lack of control.

If al Qaeda had been blamed immediately by senior members of the Bush administration for the anthrax attacks in DC without evidence, I think I would have shown similar unease, for instance. Just trying to put myself in Spaniards' shoes.

[chequita guevara]

Spanish Socialists suck. They aren't worthy of the name.

[monkspider]

A certain concerned party wanted me to share this message with you guys.

I just found out something.. point this out on the forum.. Socialist President Zapatero's economic minister is going to be a conservative capitalist.. a former banker of BBVA. You commies still lose.

[chequita guevara]

As I said . . .

[Az]

"Muhahahaha! You commies still lose"

anyway, While I think it's natural that the people would change their stance after the "It's ETA!" stance, I sure hope that the people didn't change their stance due to a "Iraq war" link. Since that would mean they bought the Al-Qaeda lie.

[Oncle Boris]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
If the reconstruction of Iraq were to be handed over to the UN I can assure you that al-Qaida would declare open season upon every member participating.

Yes, but the moderate Muslim world would be against them, and they would get much less new followers. Solve the Israeli conflict once and for all, and Al-Qaeda is in big trouble.

[Oncle Boris]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
As I said . . .

The center-left is rarely any better than the center right, indeed.

[Colon™]

Originally posted by DanS
By senior officials immediately blaming ETA, without evidence. It's not necessarily a lie, but it shows lack of control.

If al Qaeda had been blamed immediately by senior members of the Bush administration for the anthrax attacks in DC without evidence, I think I would have shown similar unease, for instance. Just trying to put myself in Spaniards' shoes.

Well I assume the press in the US hasn't been reporting too much about their manipulations but Aznar and his party are a bunch of lying SOB's. We're not talking about impulsive finger-pointing, we're talking about willful and systematic manipulation of the media and deception of the public.

After the minister of interior affairs already knew that a van had been discovered which was used by the terrorist and contained a tape with koran verses, the govt called foreign correspondents to "remind" them ETA was responsible. At the same time, the minister of foreign affairs sent a memo to all Spanish ambassadors and Aznar contacted the chief editors of all the important Spanish newspapers, with the same message. For chrissake, the bastards even misled the UN Security Council to file a resolution maintaining ETA was responsible.
When it became obvious they just couldn't insist on that fairy tale anymore, they tried to spread the bullcrap it was a collabaration between the ETA and muslim fundamentalists, pointing to "contacts" between both. Everything had to be done to make sure ETA remained the main suspect because the opposite implied Aznar was in serious **** for his support to Bush.

You have to understand Aznar and his cabinet had been showing plenty of autocratic tendencies before, to the point it became worrying for such a young democracy as Spain.
Either how those scoundrels were a disgrace to the principles of democracy and they deserved to go. We have no desire for another Putinocracy, thank you very much.

[Ted Striker]

The nice thing about Al Queda is that they always keep with them some kind of extremist Islamic crap, so it makes them easier to track.

Colon,

What about Chiracrocy? (Also known as hypocrisy)

[Colon™]

Hey look teddybear, if your "war on terrorism" means putting up with types like Aznar, Berlusconi, Putin and Musharraf, your war can go to hell.

[Drake Tungsten]

Hey look teddybear, if your "war on terrorism" means putting up with types like Aznar, Berlusconi, Putin and Musharraf, your war can go to hell.

I can't imagine what's going to go through your head once Al Qaeda finally gets around to dealing with your insignificant country. Hopefully, America and its true allies will take care of Al Qaeda and prevent something like that from ever happening, though...

[Colon™]

...

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Colon
Hey look teddybear, if your "war on terrorism" means putting up with types like Aznar, Berlusconi, Putin and Musharraf, your war can go to hell.

Putin and Musharaff aren't the greatest but they are the best alternatives available. They are keeping their countries stable and out of chaos.

I fear the day when Musharaff is out of power. It honestly scares me because world war 3 might be around the corner if his nukes ever get loose.

Meanwhile Chirac is waging a war for chocolate.

Brilliant.

I see Eurocoms conveniently let that one slip by. All the while sucking his d1ck the whole way. Hypocrisy at its finest.