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Old March 15, 2004, 00:08   #1
klesh
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"Eastwind, Rain II" Playtest
Greetings friends,

Having moved yet again, I am again connected to the internet. Good to see some familliar names still posting.
I am doing well.

I have uploaded a scenario for your enjoyment. It is a re-work of the Microprose favourite: "Eastwind, Rain". The original was completed on May 5th, 1996 by Mr. Don Melsom.
It is of course a WWII Pacific Theatre scenario. About the only things remaining from the old version are the majority of the map shape, and most of the city positions. Also, there are no sounds for this one.
It is based on wonders as objectives, so check to see how many objectives Japan has at the end of the scenario. The scenario is for play as the Americans only.
I started to fiddle with this file years ago, and had done bits here and there. At this point its been tweaked thoroughly, so hopefully it will be fun.
Since I have yet to play it a zillion times, I figure its best to have a test of it, so please feel free to comment and suggest things. There is no readme included, but there shouldn't be much confusion. This is a straight forward slugfest. Naval fights are key, protect your fleet or all that planning goes into the deep.

Special thanks goes out to my main hombre Yaroslav for hooking me up with the know-how to do my own hex editing to bring back several of the Wonders which start off as Lost in the microprose original.

I've put it in my uploads section, and I hope it works okay. Once it is finished it can go to the Spanish site or CFC or whatever.


Please enjoy, and give me your thoughts.

-FMK.
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Old March 15, 2004, 01:03   #2
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Welcome back, and with a scenario to boot!

Code:
Suicidal Civilians,  X6, 0,  1.,0,  5a,1d,  1h,4f,  1,0,  0, U3,  001000000000000

LVT-2,        X7,  0,  1.,0,  6a,4d,  2h,3f,  6,0,  0, Tra, 000000000000100
Nice attention to detail! If I'm not blind, the LVT-2 is the only unit capable of direct amphibious assault.

Now post a screenshot to get us wiping our chins.
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Old March 15, 2004, 07:36   #3
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Looks good FMK.

However, just five relatively minor corrections:

1) While I wish that Canberra was on the sea, we're actually 200 KM inland and at the top of what passes for a mountain range Change (42,108) to a hill terrain and plonk Canberra there. You should also decrease the population to something like 2 or 3. Much like Washington at the start of the US Civil War, Canberra in the 1940s was a small dusty town with a few offical buildings (including Parliament House) standing in the middle of sheep paddocks.

2) Thailand was never colonised by anyone, and French soliders and ships who crossed into Thai territory tended to leave with a lot more bullet holes then they'd entered with. Throughout WW2 Thailand was allied with Japan.

3) According to my atlas, Khabarovsk should be inland at (48,18)

4) AFAIK, Hollandia was a fairly small town. It didn't even come close to being in the same league as Batavia and Sydney.

5) Saipan was Japanese territory prior to the war. I think that they also owned the Marshals (and had a huge base at Truk).

As a sugestion, is there any chance of an Australian wonder? Some kind of production wonder called 'John Curtin' would be the most suitable - under his Prime Ministership, Australia became the 3rd most mobalised country in the world (after the USSR and Britain) and we dragged ourselves from a pastoral economy into something which began to resemble a modern economy.
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Old March 15, 2004, 08:03   #4
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Hi Guys.

@ Bocco, The Marines unit will also perform ampibious assaults. The LVT-2 is of course later in the tech path...

@Case, I was hoping to have some of the historical stuff checked out by you fellows, as the Pacific theatre is hardly my forte. Your suggestions are right on the money.
1) I think I added that ion specifically for you.
2) I think Thailand does not have any cities on the map right, ow wait... bangkok, hmm. The french soldiers hold Indo China and Laos only, and the British have Burma. Would you suggest gifting bangkok to the Japs?
3) You can blame Mr. Melsom for that one.
4)Okay, I'm not sure how that ended up being large, I'll edit.
5) Excellent, that will actually help lead them in the island hopping campaign. I'll add Truk and change Saipan. What about Guam?


There are 2 wonders already in Australia to signify it as a tasty objective. The two wonders are MacAurthur's HQ in Brisbane, and ABDACOM in Perth I believe? The Japanese can make island hopping work, especially with preplaced units etc. The Brits don't really do much more than thin out the Imperial Navy a bit in the scen, so a production wonder though it might help, could be 'wasted' on them.
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Old March 15, 2004, 11:24   #5
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Ah crap. I always love playing the japs instead
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Old March 15, 2004, 13:08   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jonash
Ah crap. I always love playing the japs instead
One word: Kyokujitsu
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Old March 15, 2004, 13:22   #7
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Did Stalingrad ever get finished, and where can I find it. Also, no B-25 or 17? Second Comment, F6F3 Hellcat is under Naval Fighters 2, and the F4FU Corsair under Naval Fighters 3. The Corsair came before the Hellcat. US people, in the city screen, have the Japanese/Chinese cone hats. The titles of the foreign leaders are a bit strange. The Free French flag should have a cross of Lorraine, as can be seen in Case's cruel sea, and the picture:


The Gato class was a US Sub, the Japanese Equivalent was the 7C Sub. Also, I saw the commie partisan unit defending Nanning for the Japanese (ie the Japs have communist partisans. )

Last edited by GoPostal; March 15, 2004 at 13:58.
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Old March 15, 2004, 13:54   #8
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I'm enjoying the game now!

btw: isn't French Indo China supposed to be Vichy-French?
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Old March 15, 2004, 14:02   #9
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I believe the Free French took control, but were ousted by the IJA, who were then removed by the Viet Minh, who then removed the French when they tried to come back.
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Old March 15, 2004, 14:06   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by GoPostal
... Second Comment, F6F3 Hellcat is under Naval Fighters 2, and the F4FU Corsair under Naval Fighters 3. The Corsair came before the Hellcat.
You're right and wrong here - the Corsair was judged unsafe for carrier operations when it first appeared and was initially used exclusive by the USMC from land bases. By 1944 (I think), after the introduction of the Hellcat, the Corsair was judged to be OK for carrier operations. As a Naval carrier fighter the Hellcat was used before the Corsair.
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Old March 15, 2004, 14:14   #11
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OK, i blame Microsoft (Combat Flight Sim 2) and who is Eddie C Pelky (when Guam is captured) Also, December 1942, the Free French developed DO NOT USE. Did you have a ceasefire happen in 1943 between the Japanese and the Dutch, French and British, with the message, the war rages on? Also, the SBDs had bomb loadouts, so they should be able to attack land targets.

Last edited by GoPostal; March 15, 2004 at 14:40.
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Old March 15, 2004, 14:51   #12
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Good to see an old classic scen updated!

And an old classic scen maker return!

Damn - please complete that Europe WW2 scenario, FMK!
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Old March 15, 2004, 16:18   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by GoPostal
Did Stalingrad ever get finished, and where can I find it.
Yes and No, I released what I had completed up to a point, and it can probably still be found in that thread here on apolyton.

Quote:
Also, no B-25 or 17?
If I am not mistaken, the B17 was not used to a large degree, if at all in the Pacific. I could go either way, 25 or 26, I just happen to have no B-25 artwork.


Quote:
US people, in the city screen, have the Japanese/Chinese cone hats.
Crap, thanks I had missed that.

Quote:
The titles of the foreign leaders are a bit strange.
To be honest I hadn't bothered. With no diplomacy I am usually not checking those things while playing.

Quote:
The Free French flag should have a cross of Lorraine, as can be seen in Case's cruel sea, and the picture:
I had made a unit shield for MP2194 just as you suggest, I'll put it in.

Quote:
The Gato class was a US Sub, the Japanese Equivalent was the 7C Sub. Also, I saw the commie partisan unit defending Nanning for the Japanese (ie the Japs have communist partisans. )
Okay, I'll change the sub name, and I think the latter is an example of the AI's ability to bribe units even though they haven't any diplo units.

Quote:
who is Eddie C Pelky (when Guam is captured)

He is a guy that lived in the room across the hall from me my first year of college. He was from Guam, and I was the only one interested in that fact. He ended up giving me a sweet arse Guam shirt that still gets tons of comments to this day. I put that in for a quick smile whilst testing.


Quote:
Also, December 1942, the Free French developed DO NOT USE.
Okay, they must be researching that from the start methinks, I'll have to check on it.

Quote:
Did you have a ceasefire happen in 1943 between the Japanese and the Dutch, French and British, with the message, the war rages on?

That is the strangest thing! Yes, during testing I noticed that on its own Japan makes peace with exactly those nations. I have no idea why. Events force Japanese agression against each of those civ every turn, so I merely changed the text to something slightly more sensable. Anyone have thoughts as to why this might be occuring in the first place?

Quote:
Also, the SBDs had bomb loadouts, so they should be able to attack land targets.
Of course. That should certainly be the case. Thanks for the thoroughness. Its stuff like that that one can miss in the haze of scen making.
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Old March 15, 2004, 17:10   #14
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Yeah what happened to that WW2 Europe scenario?
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Old March 15, 2004, 17:56   #15
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Nothing, its right where I left it.
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Old March 15, 2004, 18:15   #16
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glad to see you back FMK!
downloading the scenario...
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Old March 15, 2004, 18:52   #17
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@ FMK: IMHO you should finish that ww2 scen where you should defend Germany.
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Old March 15, 2004, 19:30   #18
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I've just given it a quick play, it looks good. One bug I spotted though is that it's harder for the Japanese to get a marginal defeat (28 obj.) than a marginal victory (27 obj.)!

BTW FMK, I went looking for one of your units in the graphics showcase a few weeks ago (can't remember which one it was now). However in a lot of the posts the graphics had been removed. What happened, most of them were excellent.
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Old March 15, 2004, 19:36   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by our_man
I've just given it a quick play, it looks good. One bug I spotted though is that it's harder for the Japanese to get a marginal defeat (28 obj.) than a marginal victory (27 obj.)!
IIRC, for a marginal defeat it is <28 (meaning 27 or below), and for a marginal victory it is >27 (meaning 28 or more).

Ask me if you need a unit, I may still have it. Nothing happened in particular.
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Old March 15, 2004, 20:52   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by GoPostal
I believe the Free French took control, but were ousted by the IJA, who were then removed by the Viet Minh, who then removed the French when they tried to come back.
The little research I did confirmed what I thought, that Indo-China was Vichy controlled. It doesn't mention the Free-French with a word.

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/region/seas...ifrindoch.html

http://www.dposs.com/k9/french.htm
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Old March 16, 2004, 03:20   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh
Would you suggest gifting bangkok to the Japs?
Yes, definetly. Japanese troops freely passed through Thailand during the entire war, and the Thais provided some troops for the invasion of Burma.

Quote:
5) Excellent, that will actually help lead them in the island hopping campaign. I'll add Truk and change Saipan. What about Guam?
Guam was US territory, with a garrison of about 100 Marines.

Quote:
The Brits don't really do much more than thin out the Imperial Navy a bit in the scen, so a production wonder though it might help, could be 'wasted' on them.
Bah! As you've chosen to keep Australia lumped in with the Brits, you need to accept the consequences. Namely, Australian troops made up the majority of MacArthur's command until 1944 and won most of his victories in New Guniea for him. Following that huge numbers of Australian troops wasted their time and lives mopping up isolated Japanese pockets.

On that topic, perhaps you should give Australia and NZ to the US civ? Historically, Australia/NZ and Britain had almost nothing to do with each other in the Pacific following the fall of Singapore. The British sent a single Spitfire squadron to Darwin and their Pacific fleet was based at Sydney in 1945, and that's about it.

BTW, as another correction, the Japanese captured Peking sometime in the 1930s, and it was firmly in their hands at the start of the war with the US.
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Old March 16, 2004, 07:56   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Case
Bah! As you've chosen to keep Australia lumped in with the Brits, you need to accept the consequences. Namely, Australian troops made up the majority of MacArthur's command until 1944 and won most of his victories in New Guniea for him. Following that huge numbers of Australian troops wasted their time and lives mopping up isolated Japanese pockets.

On that topic, perhaps you should give Australia and NZ to the US civ? Historically, Australia/NZ and Britain had almost nothing to do with each other in the Pacific following the fall of Singapore. The British sent a single Spitfire squadron to Darwin and their Pacific fleet was based at Sydney in 1945, and that's about it.

BTW, as another correction, the Japanese captured Peking sometime in the 1930s, and it was firmly in their hands at the start of the war with the US.

Wow, there were alot of existing problems with the original Eastwind apparently, Things like Peking I didn't alter from the original.

I think lumping NZ and Australia might make things too easy for the American. If he can use NZ and Australian bases to build ships or planes to trrack the Japanese Fleets. I want the tide to turn, that is the British civ should have an easier time once the Amis have done alot of the damage to the Japs. This may not work and the Amis may have to take the entirety of the South Pacifc.... thats why were testing.

Everyone should let me know whats going down in their game and what they've been able to do.


Changing Free French to Vichy French would be a simple name change.
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Old March 16, 2004, 08:24   #23
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I regret to say that I find some features of Eastwind, Rain II much less player friendly than in the original.

In the city window, the pebbled grey border with the Nip flags does an almost perfect job of obscuring the most important piece of information, the amount of money in the treasury. It really is very difficult to manage cities without knowing how much cash is on hand.

Similarly, in the small resource window, the yellow grain, yellow bullets and yellow trade icons are more difficult to work with than the color coded icons in the original.

I apologize if this seems unduly harsh, but many recent scenarios seems to include changes that have been made for the sake of appearance without a critical examination of whether they actually improve or detract from playability.
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Old March 16, 2004, 08:29   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by AGRICOLA
I regret to say that I find some features of Eastwind, Rain II much less player friendly than in the original.

In the city window, the pebbled grey border with the Nip flags does an almost perfect job of obscuring the most important piece of information, the amount of money in the treasury. It really is very difficult to manage cities without knowing how much cash is on hand.

Similarly, in the small resource window, the yellow grain, yellow bullets and yellow trade icons are more difficult to work with than the color coded icons in the original.

I apologize if this seems unduly harsh, but many recent scenarios seems to include changes that have been made for the sake of appearance without a critical examination of whether they actually improve or detract from playability.

Hey thanks, you see I always check my treasury in the right side of the main screen, I never look up there. If I take out the flag, then you've got the default civ border I'll see if I can fiddle around in that respect.

I'll look into the resiources too, yes too much yellow indeed. Good point.
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Old March 17, 2004, 05:48   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh
Wow, there were alot of existing problems with the original Eastwind apparently, Things like Peking I didn't alter from the original.
Yeah, to be honest you would have been better off updating Harlan Thompson's classic WW2 in the Pacific scenario.

Quote:
I think lumping NZ and Australia might make things too easy for the American. If he can use NZ and Australian bases to build ships or planes to trrack the Japanese Fleets. I want the tide to turn, that is the British civ should have an easier time once the Amis have done alot of the damage to the Japs. This may not work and the Amis may have to take the entirety of the South Pacifc.... thats why were testing.
OK, while it's not the slightest bit historically valid, it certainly does have good gameplay implications, which I think are more important then 'pure' historical accuracy.
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Old March 18, 2004, 01:02   #26
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So just for fun I searched yahoo for Don Melsom, and I actually found one. No email, just address anbd phone. Should I call him? Maybe ask him about his catastrophic Peking decision?
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Old March 18, 2004, 01:56   #27
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The exclusive Apolyton interview of the man who wronged the world...Don 'Peking Devil' Melsom.

FMK:"Just one question, Mr. Melsom. Why. Just...why.
Melsom:*sobs*"I...I was young. Desperate! I...I'm sorry.
Please forgive me for my foolishness!"
FMK:"Crying won't bring back those kids."
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Old March 18, 2004, 16:48   #28
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Old March 18, 2004, 18:59   #29
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Great job on the remake!
Just nitpicking, but I think you should add something about
Mac's speech when Manilla is taken to kinda keep in line with
the Pearl Harbor event. Ok, so its really insignifficant, but I still thought of it during the game anyways.

Gotta love those elephants waging war in China, though.

Looking forward to your Götterdämmerung/Fall of the Third Reich/Bloodied Eagle/Nein Sieg scenario.
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Old March 19, 2004, 19:22   #30
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Sorry, I meant Davao, not Manilla.

You might want to set it up so that Japan takes more cities on the first turn. It's pretty funny watching Japan take months to capture less than half of the islands.
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