ANALYSIS: An Even-Handed Look at American, European Relations

[Gatekeeper]

Everyone:

I came upon this article while perusing the raw news wires at work earlier tonight and, per my occasional custom, have posted it below for your own critical perusal. Per the usual standard, read the article and contribute to this thread as you see fit afterwards.

Europe taking a more pragmatic attitude toward America

By Jeffrey Fleishman
(c) 2004, Los Angeles Times

BERLIN — He’s as ubiquitous as the Big Mac.

Europe can’t shake the bowlegged cowboy peeking out from a too-big Stetson, arms bent and ready to draw. This political caricature of President Bush endures, even as trans-Atlantic relations have improved from the derision and backbiting that one year ago marked the beginning of the Iraq war.

A lot has happened in that year. While the United States has been preoccupied with securing Iraq, Europe, in many ways, has set its own course. Perhaps more than the United States itself, Europe understands that the Sept. 11 attacks changed U.S. priorities and that Washington’s old friends are often overshadowed by new strategic alliances.

The terrorist bombings in Madrid last week — possibly orchestrated by Islamic extremists to punish Spain for supporting the Iraq war — are forcing some European nations to re-evaluate their partnerships with the United States. The leader of the newly elected Socialist Workers Party in Spain has vowed to withdraw the nation’s 1,300 troops from Iraq, a prospect that would undermine U.S. efforts to build an international coalition.

Steely pragmatism and nostalgia

The specter of terrorism and differences over world security are turning the Cold War-era trans-Atlantic friendship into steely pragmatism. The continent has a two-dimensional view of the United States. Although most people in London, Paris, Berlin and other capitals feel an affinity for Americans, that closeness does not extend to a White House seen as rash and militaristic at a time when globalization needs patience and diplomacy.

"The last four years have been hell," said Francois Heisbourg, a foreign policy expert at the Foundation for Strategic Research in Paris. "The Bush administration’s view of things is, ‘You’re either a poodle or an enemy.’ The Bushies don’t tend to forget."

Such widespread attitudes are softened by nostalgia many Europeans have for U.S. forces who liberated them more than half a century ago.

"If you go to the American cemetery in Cassino or the cemetery in nearby Anzio," said Italian waiter Dario Di Tiello, 40, speaking of his nation’s World War II battlefields, "you can see how many Americans are buried there, how many came to save us from hell. We always forget these things. For me, the American people were a great people, they still are a great people."

The spate of across-the-pond name-calling — Euroweenies vs. cultural bimbos — has largely subsided. But Europeans have been reminded that they are more different from Americans than they once thought. Attitudes toward gay marriage, capital punishment and other social issues reveal the chasm between a liberal-leaning Europe and a conservative-tilting America.

And the Bush administration’s weaving of religion through politics — especially when the president invoked God as he was going to war — unnerves European secularism.

"There’s an extraordinary element of fundamentalist type of religion in American life," said Roger Duclaud-Williams, a political science professor at Warwick University in Britain, adding that he was bemused that Janet Jackson’s flashed breast at the Super Bowl caused so much hand-wringing. "It’s a kind of Christian-based Puritanism for which our educated governing class doesn’t have much sympathy."

John Kerry popular

Europeans have tried to move beyond rancor when discussing Washington. Conversation is as dignified and proper as a tea party on the Thames. There are the occasional snide asides about Europe’s moral authority and the fact that no weapons of mass destruction have been unearthed in Iraq. But when the brandy is poured in the anterooms, or pints are hoisted in pubs, Europeans swoon and giggle over John Kerry, the continent’s new poster boy.

"Kerry Has Europe’s Vote," said a headline in the Economist.

The Financial Times Germany has written of Kerry: "His first cousin is a French mayor. His father was a diplomat. He spent school years in Switzerland. He thinks the death penalty is bad and thinks the Kyoto Protocol, intended to protect the global climate, is good. If the Europeans were allowed to vote for the U.S. president this coming November, a triumph for the Democratic challenger John Kerry would be assured. Never has a U.S. president been so disliked in Europe as George W. Bush."

Some Europeans are quick to add that Kerry would be a pleasant change of personality, but that terrorism and shifting world hotspots would prevent him from significantly altering U.S. foreign policy.

Keener understanding

The Madrid bombings have given Europe a keener understanding of acting within one’s own interests and have raised challenging questions: Does supporting the United States mean bringing Islamic terrorism to European cities? If Spain withdraws troops from Iraq, what domestic pressures will Britain, Italy and Poland face to do the same?

"It comes down to fundamental differences in our societies," said Bernhard May, an analyst at the German Council on Foreign Relations. "American society seems to be more inspired, a society with a mission. But Europe doesn’t want to go around the world telling people how to live.

"What really is going on now between Europe and America is a working out of a relationship for the post-Cold War era. We should have had this discussion back in the 1990s, but we didn’t. The fundamental question is, what kind of world order do we want?"

Political dynamics

The iconic images of a gunslinger Texan helped change the political dynamics of the continent.

Antiwar fervor strengthened the Berlin-Paris axis. But it created animosity with countries that supported the war, such as Spain and Poland, and has strained the atmosphere as the European Union expands from 15 to 25 nations this year. Despite the EU’s goal of cohesion, the continent is increasingly discovering that it can be compared less to a chorus than to a jazz ensemble, with each player fighting for his own solo.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair — whose backing of Bush cost him in the polls — these days wants to be known as a statesman "at the heart of Europe." Many in Blair’s liberal-leaning Labor Party believe staying cozy with Washington is political peril.

"We need to get George Bush out of the White House," Anthony Giddens, an unofficial Blair adviser, told a recent Labor Party gathering. Even members of the conservative Tories, who bonded so well with Ronald Reagan, see Bush as an impediment to transatlantic relations.

"Some of it’s jealousy, the frustration that after (Bill) Clinton we thought we’d have our own guy in the White House and then it didn’t turn out that way," said George Osborne, a Tory member of Parliament who supports Bush. "But the Bush frontier-style talk just doesn’t go down well among Tories."

European problems

Europe’s own problems often eclipse its worry about U.S. relations. The French and German economies are struggling. Health and social reforms are triggering voter anger. Immigration problems are roiling governments from the Netherlands to Italy. Many wonder what will happen to the EU — once a privileged Western club — when it admits the Czech Republic and other former Soviet bloc countries in May.

"The relations with the United States should not be our priority today," said Jean-Luc Turcouin, a French retiree. "We have to deal with our own national problems, the elections, the euro, the unemployment, the terrorism. This is what we should worry about."

But the United States is the new hyper-power, and Europeans concede that the harsh rhetoric against Bush’s military policies should not jeopardize the transatlantic alliance. German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, for example, has declined French President Jacques Chirac’s suggestion that Europe form a counterbalance to Washington. Analysts say the United States and Europe need each other, especially in the Middle East and in fighting terrorism.

Complementary strengths

For all the recent nastiness, Europe and the United States often complement each other. European diplomacy backed by a veiled threat of U.S. military prowess helped defuse the Iranian nuclear crisis and prompted Libya to renounce its chemical weapons programs. The continent and Washington are cooperating on a new role for NATO as strategic interests move eastward. And Paris — the major European capital most estranged from Washington — is working with the Bush administration in Haiti.

"We have come to the conclusion that we went too far in the divorce," said Dominique Moisi, an analyst at the French Institute for International Relations.

It may never be a love fest. Europe and America have had more than 200 years of skirmishes and spats. America has been cast as the ambitious upstart less concerned with high culture than with making a buck, Europe as a bit of a relic that speaks eloquently but is skittish when it comes to action. The Cold War put a veneer over the rifts as Europe and the United States faced a common enemy. Now there are more mercurial enemies — as the recent Madrid bombing reaffirmed — and the bonds of friendship are being recast.

Cold War ghosts?

Moisi said Europe and the United States might grow closer in coming years through an ironic twist. Under Russian President Vladimir V. Putin, Moscow is growing autocratic and restive as Europe integrates and becomes more of an economic power. This trend concerns European officials, some of whom believe Cold War ghosts are stirring.

"You suddenly start to be worried," Moisi said, "and you start to want a blend of U.S. and European cooperation."

Times staff writers Janet Stobart in London and Achrene Sicakyuz in Paris, and special correspondents Nancy Meiman in Rome and Bruce Wallace in London contributed to this report.

I just have a few comments in regards to the article:

1. I was most touched by the part where the Italian waiter, Dario Di Tiello, says:

"If you go to the American cemetery in Cassino or the cemetery in nearby Anzio, you can see how many Americans are buried there, how many came to save us from hell. We always forget these things. For me, the American people were a great people, they still are a great people."

Perhaps it's because my great uncle was on a troop train heading for the coasts to, like so many other Americans of the time, to take up arms and do his part to drive Hitler out of occupied Europe and to put Imperial Japan in its place. So it has a resonance in my family lineage.

2. If Europe gets too vocal in its support for John Kerry, I can easily see the Bush campaign begin to smear him with charges of "foreign influence" on domestic elections.

3. I especially liked the segment detailing America and Europe's complementary strengths. Quite true, IMO. The Euros know how to finesse a diplomatic situation ("What?! We're still negotiating?! It's been a year! C'mon! Let's get the ball rolling!") while America can crush the power-in-question if diplomacy fails ("What?! We're invading?! But, but, we've only been in negotiations for a few weeks!").

4. The ghosts of the Cold War stirring again? Hmm. I certainly hope not.

Gatekeeper

[Ned]

I see no strengths whatsoever in Old Europe. They really need to get their act together before they get my respect. Did I hear the word "diplomacy." That is a fancy word for "appeasement."

I have no friggin' idea why Kerry sees any need to be friends with the likes of these appeasing backstabbers.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Ned
I see no strengths whatsoever in Old Europe. They really need to get their act together before they get my respect. Did I hear the word "diplomacy." That is a fancy word for "appeasement."

The US appeased the Soviet Union like no other

[FrustratedPoet]

The Euros know how to finesse a diplomatic situation ("What?! We're still negotiating?! It's been a year! C'mon! Let's get the ball rolling!")

That's weird, because in the European Parliament it's more like "What?! We're still negotiating?! And it's only been a year?! My God man, I told you not to wake me up until at least November! Now get me some more wine and a clean plate - these croissants won't eat themselves, y'know?"

[FrustratedPoet]

Also, the American's don't seem to mind European appeasement so much when we're appeasing them. "Yes sir, straight away sir, anything you say sir! (now just piss off you vulgar yankee fat-ass)"

[Ned]

Putin -- if you want to take Germany and France, now is your greatest opportunity. No one in this administration will lift a finger.

[Gatekeeper]

The only thing the Russian military has going for it is its Strategic Rocket Forces, and even that is questionable it seems. I don't see Russia ever really posing a threat to Europe as the former Soviet Union once did.

Gatekeeper

[Gatekeeper]

FP:

Heh. My sentiments were something along the lines of Europe's diplomacy seemingly drag on forever, not always bearing fruit, while America can sometimes act too quickly militarily (and not always bear fruit). There's got to be a middle ground somewhere.

Gatekeeper

[Ned]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
FP:

Heh. My sentiments were something along the lines of Europe's diplomacy seemingly drag on forever, not always bearing fruit, while America can sometimes act too quickly militarily (and not always bear fruit). There's got to be a middle ground somewhere.

Gatekeeper

It drags on forever because the other side has no fear. Europe is a fangless, old, stuffed animal, a caricature of the fearsome beast it once was.

[yavoon]

I think I can actually see Ned foaming at the mouth.

[Ned]

Originally posted by yavoon
I think I can actually see Ned foaming at the mouth.

Close. It just galls me that Europe can turn weakness into a virtue and that others take them seriously.

[Paul Hanson]

Haven't you got more important things to worry about?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Paul Hanson
Haven't you got more important things to worry about?

If it were not for that GD French veto at the UN, Old Europe would be nothing to worry about.

[Gatekeeper]

Ned:

Well, we can agree that Europe is old. Now it's time for me to totter off to bed ...

Everyone play nice, now! [Arnie voice] I'll be back! [/Arnie voice]

Gatekeeper

[rev]

Well, Ned, we're 'appeasing' North Korea right now. Should we be bombing them, instead?

Maybe we should have kept up the 'appeasing' (diplomacy) in Iraq long enough for inspectors to discover that, no, they weren't actually a threat to anyone outside the immediate region.

When was Europe a "fearsome beast"? When Hitler's tanks rolled through France, and his bombers over London? Or when Europe and America, among others, correctly recognized and responded to a horrible threat?

[Paul Hanson]

Ooh, zing.

No, seriously Ned, what have French people ever done to you to make you hate them with such vitriol? Have you ever met more than a handful of French people, or is your opinion of them based entirely off the actions of French politicians?

And I'm willing to bet that when you ***** about Europe, there's a little disclaimer in your head that goes "But the British are alright", isn't there? If you're going to *****, at least be consistent.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Paul Hanson
Ooh, zing.

No, seriously Ned, what have French people ever done to you to make you hate them with such vitriol? Have you ever met more than a handful of French people, or is your opinion of them based entirely off the actions of French politicians?

And I'm willing to bet that when you ***** about Europe, there's a little disclaimer in your head that goes "But the British are alright", isn't there? If you're going to *****, at least be consistent.

The Brits are more than alright. They are great. Ditto Poland and all the former East Block countries that apparently still value freedom. It is the Old Europe, particularly the French, that are the problem. They elevate corruption to virtue, unfaithfulness (to their wifes for example) to the norm, and hypocrisy to the language of culture.

[Ned]

Good night folks. Resume your Bush bashing. It substitutes for thought.

[DRoseDARs]

This from a guy that parrots the Neocon Talking Points?

[Kropotkin]

Haha. No, it's not like words as 'old europe' and 'appeasement' are subtitutes for thought in your mind neddie.

[notyoueither]

"What really is going on now between Europe and America is a working out of a relationship for the post-Cold War era. We should have had this discussion back in the 1990s, but we didn’t. The fundamental question is, what kind of world order do we want?"

That about sums it up, I think, except...

"Some of it’s jealousy, the frustration that after (Bill) Clinton we thought we’d have our own guy in the White House and then it didn’t turn out that way," said George Osborne, a Tory member of Parliament who supports Bush. "But the Bush frontier-style talk just doesn’t go down well among Tories."

The President of the United States is not acceptable to Europe if he is from Texas and is not a Democrat, I guess...

Do these morons think they are lobbying for a vote within the greater empire? I swear sometimes I can truely feel the frustration some Yanks feel with furriners. WTF? Who ever got so fussed over the politicians and politcs of Britain, France and Germany other than Britons, French, and Germans. There is something rotten in all of this, I'm just not entirely sure what is is yet.

But the United States is the new hyper-power, and Europeans concede that the harsh rhetoric against Bush’s military policies should not jeopardize the transatlantic alliance.

That's quite a prized quote. I like that one. Too bad nobody seems to pay much attention to it. Who wrote this?

It may never be a love fest. Europe and America have had more than 200 years of skirmishes and spats. America has been cast as the ambitious upstart less concerned with high culture than with making a buck, Europe as a bit of a relic that speaks eloquently but is skittish when it comes to action. The Cold War put a veneer over the rifts as Europe and the United States faced a common enemy.

That bit is very true, I think.

Moisi said Europe and the United States might grow closer in coming years through an ironic twist. Under Russian President Vladimir V. Putin, Moscow is growing autocratic and restive as Europe integrates and becomes more of an economic power. This trend concerns European officials, some of whom believe Cold War ghosts are stirring.

"You suddenly start to be worried," Moisi said, "and you start to want a blend of U.S. and European cooperation."

Whoo ****! Maybe we should have cooperated when the Yanks last, and only time, needed us, says the last Euro to turn the lights out.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! is all I can imagine Yanks saying back, except maybe to the Brits.

[Paul Hanson]

Originally posted by Ned


The Brits are more than alright. They are great. Ditto Poland and all the former East Block countries that apparently still value freedom. It is the Old Europe, particularly the French, that are the problem. They elevate corruption to virtue, unfaithfulness (to their wifes for example) to the norm, and hypocrisy to the language of culture.

I'm British, Neddy-poos. Am I alright? More to the point, why am I alright?

And could you produce some hard evidence to support all that **** about the entire French nation? Come on, you must have go it from somewhere - I mean, it's not like you'd just pull something that dumb out of your arse, right?

So, are you actually going to bed, or are you logging off Poly to avoid having to justify all of this? Do tell us, we're all curious.

[DRoseDARs]

*SQUAWK* Old Europe, Axis of Weasel! *SQUAWK*

Aw, did someone ruffle your feathers Ned?

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by Ned
They really need to get their act together before they get my respect.

I cant see any reason why they could give any value to your respect.

[notyoueither]

Actually... if Ivan and Mr. Wong are willing to buy into capitalism and to trade, WTH use does North America have for supporting Continental Europe?

WTH should the US risk it's servicemen in operations in the Balkans when Europe replies with derision to quid pro quo?

What most Euros don't know is just how close the isolated Yank is in all of this. Somehow I suspect the Euros would not be very happy to be left alone with Ivan and Mr. Wong after the Yanks say 'fvck this, we're going home'.

It would be interesting to see if Europe could figure it's own way out without the Yanks to prop them up in the face of powers that could strip them bare in a few short days.

[Paul Hanson]

Depends what you're implying. If you're saying that China and Russia (I assume that's who Ivan and Mr. Wong are) could lay the smack down on Europe militarily without US help, then I'd agree with you, provided either of them could really get within striking distance of Europe.

Economically, Europe can stand on it's own two feet.

[notyoueither]

Russia is not within striking distance of Europe? Did you inform Napoleon of this?

[Paul Hanson]

OK, poor choice of words on my part. My bad.

Let's put it another way: do you forsee Russia being hostile to Europe at any point in the near future?

[Harovan]

Originally posted by notyoueither
What most Euros don't know is just how close the isolated Yank is in all of this. Somehow I suspect the Euros would not be very happy to be left alone with Ivan and Mr. Wong after the Yanks say 'fvck this, we're going home'.

I think most people would shrug, just like they did when the bulk left in the 90's. I would add a "good riddance". A few innkeepers and whores would be unhappy, but that's about it. The impact these troops have on our economy is greatly exaggerated. We're talking about some 70 thousands in a country of 80 millions. Their impact on our economy is about as big as a fart in the Royal Albert Hall.

As for your constructed threats... cracked me up! Are you talking about that Russia, which has trouble to contain tiny Chechnya? In this case, I have bad news for you. Russia is seen as an important partner for trading and stability hereabouts. The old bug-a-boo image as excuse to maintain the American forepost here doesn't work anymore.

And China... come on NYE. That's about the same as saying, that India could be a major threat for Brazil, or something like this. Or Iraq threatening the United States, for that matter.

[Sandman]

This is nothing like an even-handed look at America-European relations.

Europe can’t shake the bowlegged cowboy peeking out from a too-big Stetson, arms bent and ready to draw. This political caricature of President Bush endures, even as trans-Atlantic relations have improved from the derision and backbiting that one year ago marked the beginning of the Iraq war.

This is how America thinks the world sees it. Not how the world actually sees it. The writer continues to peddle the idea that Americans are seen as cowboys throughout the article.

The spate of across-the-pond name-calling — Euroweenies vs. cultural bimbos — has largely subsided. But Europeans have been reminded that they are more different from Americans than they once thought. Attitudes toward gay marriage, capital punishment and other social issues reveal the chasm between a liberal-leaning Europe and a conservative-tilting America.

I think that the name calling has been one-sided. Europeans have never come close to the hateful, hurtful exaggerations of anti-semitism and the suggestion that Europe is 'up to it's old tricks'. When was the last time anyone used the phrase 'cultural bimbos' on this forum, or anywhere? It's been made up for the article. And let's not forget the racism displayed towards the French.

The death penalty is not a divisive issue, despite what some Americans claim. A good portion of Europeans support it, and quite a few American states don't use it. And a there are a lot of other countries that use it/don't use it.

To claim that 'Euros are always whining about the death penalty' is pure fantasy.

Gay marriage is an internal American thing. No-one else cares.

It's also suggests that American liberals are somehow less American than their conservative counterparts.

Europeans have tried to move beyond rancor when discussing Washington. Conversation is as dignified and proper as a tea party on the Thames. There are the occasional snide asides about Europe’s moral authority and the fact that no weapons of mass destruction have been unearthed in Iraq. But when the brandy is poured in the anterooms, or pints are hoisted in pubs, Europeans swoon and giggle over John Kerry, the continent’s new poster boy.

Christ. This is even-handed, is it? A timely reminder of the 'European = effeminate' line. And a nice dig at Kerry as a bonus.

I reckon that these fables are being created to justify American malevolence towards Europe. Rest assured that the dislike is not mutual.

I don't think Russia can be considered a threat to Europe. The enlarged EU's population will outnumber them 3 to 1, and their demographics make the EU look positively youthful.