SMAC demo is out

Mentat · December 24, 1998, 17:04

ZDNet now has a SMAC demo. check out:
http://www.zdnet.com/swlib/lpad/smac.html

Thanks to Kwang for the tip.

Now we can at least see how good one of these new games is.

BJ LEE · December 24, 1998, 20:18

AC is pretty cool, a huge change from civ 2 and civ (not just the terrain either)

LordStone1 · December 24, 1998, 21:02

It was REALLY confusing at first but then it got better. I still think it may be a bit too complex. One major gripe, the units are too big and they cover up the tiles and when they're all bunched up around a spot, its hard to distinguish between individual units. I hate those xenofungi!!!

But there are two things that SMAC has that CTP should have never left out: borders, and end-of-game historical replay.

LordStone1 · December 24, 1998, 21:03

Overall, I give it a 7.5. That may get higher when I play it more. I was just about to conquer the hive when 2200 came - argh!

Red Trotskyite · December 25, 1998, 00:33

Not bad. Not Revolutionary, but not bad. I'd give it an 8. The diplomatic functions work well. I was elected planetary Governor (as Peacekeepers), switched to Democracy and Planned Economy. Gaians weren't having any of my "waste," and declared a Vendetta. I was on my way to their territory with a military detatchment when the game timed out.

The interface is a bit confusing at first, but it seems to get better. The graphics are well enough (although CTP's seem much better), they suffice the game. I found the tutorials helpful. And pretty fun overall.

I'm not absolutely blown away, but I'm satisfied. Now we just need a CTP demo and all will be well. I can't figure out for the life of me, however, why ths release date is mid-February when they already have a demo version out.

Red Trotskyite,
POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

December 25, 1998, 04:34

I give it a 6.

The graphics are well, just graphics.
The units aren't too pretty. I wish they
could be a little sharper.

But I like terraforming that butt ugly terrain into something nice. Although terraforming is really complex in this one.

Although the "feel" of the game is really nice. I like capturing the mindworms and using them. And I like the complexity and mysteriousness of the diplomacy and the planet, with the obelisks and the other stuff that you find.

December 26, 1998, 09:51

Hey, what's the deal with the replay?

It doesn't show territory gained on the ocean.

St Leo · December 26, 1998, 10:33

I'd give the game a 9. It took me forever to figure out how to change production (right-click, then choose change production) and the units are a bit fuzzy.

I liked the AI and the diplomacy options. I've long been waiting for a "Give ALL Techs" option. Instant replay could use a save as *.avi or *.gif animation option, or at least a replay again option, but it was rather nice.:-)

CtP has to be really good to beat this game, the Firaxis hasn't lost its magic touch!

December 26, 1998, 10:38

I'm not excited with the smac demo yet...
20 turns, 3 crashes

Other than that, my main problem is what I feared: learning what every single unit, advance, term means. It's all SF so you actually know nothing when you begin(for similar reasons I hardly play scenarios with altered units and techs in civ2)...

On the other hand, the new diplomacy options look interesting, and I haven't checked terraforming yet...

And yes, I think that CTP's graphics are better...

Markos, Apolyton CS

Kumiorava · December 26, 1998, 14:10

Man that terrain is weird!
Got really confused sometimes...
Well, I'll get used to it.

fred · December 26, 1998, 18:18

It plays alot better than civ2 but i found the graphic not really there. Also I didn't really know how to select techs it just asked me what areas i like to get (or is that how you decide what tech you like to get) also i didn't know what some of the things did but that will all change when i get the game, then the manuak can tell me what to do!

Overall i give the demo a 7.5 because when i was going to wipe out the spartans will my UoP people my time expired

.

fred

p.s. sorry for my writting but i've lost alot of sleep playing SMAC and a new game my brother got for Christmas called Rainbow Six. any one here play rainbow six, its amazing! if you are looking for a 3d shooterbut don't like quake stile games get rainbow six. its more realistic and there is a little bit of strategy too.

Imran Siddiqui · December 26, 1998, 21:54

You know where my score is close to

. Well, I love the research. Instead of researching a certain tech (which you should have no idea knowing at that point), you research an area, and the scientists consentrate on that area. I also like the diplomacy stuff. There is a lot more to do with other factions. I can't wait to get the game now (Btw, it's not being released until Feb, because EA wants a simultanious world release and has to write the manuals in foreign languages, DAMN THEM!) Anyway, I must disagree with the most here, and cast a vote for SMAC graphics. Why? The 3d terrain is stunning, but the units aren't really that great looking. Although graphics don't really matter in a game like this, I'm glad Firaxis decided to change up the graphics (the first screenshots were hideous!). Anyway, I'm looking forward to exploring the whole game, with the space combat and satellites (I wonder how that will work). I also want to see those new special project videos!! I loved the preview, now I can't wait until Feb 9th! Now I gotta go play some more, try out new factions, new strengths, and new economic models and governments (nice touch on the economic models and stuff).

Imran Siddiqui

Mentat · December 27, 1998, 05:31

I didn't realize it was going to be so much like Civ2. It's like playing Civ2 on another (unfamiliar) planet. That being the case, it gets kind of confusing knowing what certain things will do. I didn't think that it added enough new features (over Civ2) to warrant my buying it. The gameplay seemed a bit too complex.

I didn't like having to move units multiple times to get them up hills (I didn't like it in Civ2, either, but here it is worse). Moving units was too confusing for two reasons:

1. For some reason Firaxis decided to make the selected unit's shield flash instead of the unit itself. But all the units have the same shield style, so it doesn't really help identify which unit you are moving.

2. The units center of standing are off-center from the square, making it difficult to tell which square they are actually in. A similar thing occured in Civ2 with the Howitzer unit, but here it is a lot worse.

The personalities of the different factions really didn't seem to play much of a part in the game from what I saw. It seems like no matter who you talk to, they always had some rediculous reason for declaring war on you.

I found xenofungus to be a somewhat frustatring limitation of development, and the whole premise of terraforming seemed a bit too complex. Likewise, custom units was not something that I messed around with much (the prebuilt designs seemed to work the best anyway).

I liked the choice of technologies as they seemed rather realistic and yet imaginative. I miss the ability to choose which path along the tech tree to take, though.

I noticed that the units have the multiple facings like how C:CTP will have. That's too bad, seeing as it ruins customization a bit. Anybody know how customizable SMAC will be? I didn't like the planet texture very well (it wasn't very pleasant to look at), but I like the water better than the elevated oceans that we see in C:CTP screenshots. The animations on the map were kind of neat (nice and smooth). I wonder if the final game will also have some movie clips.

Overall, I give the game a 6.5. But then, this is based on my playing only one and a half games so far.

Colon™ · December 27, 1998, 19:39

How do the borders work in SMAC ?

paraclet · December 27, 1998, 20:21

I don't like it at all...Is Sid Meiers starting to be old ? Playability is much less clear than in civ and fantasy invention are totally unrealistics...I will not buy it !

fred · December 27, 1998, 23:41

paraclet i don't know wher you are coming from! SMAC has a few problems but the game play all but makes up for it.

anyone else notice that the units actually move. like the soldiers walk, and the worms ( they sure don't look like worms) sort of ripple over the terrian. it might be my monitor or i was never aware of this feature.

fred

Red Trotskyite · December 28, 1998, 00:55

Well right now, I must say, I am not going to buy SMAC immidiately, although eventually I might end up getting it, in a half year or so. Civ: CTP followed by Sim City 3000 are on the top of my list, and unless one turns out really dissapointing, I'll be using my saved strategy bucks for those two come February.

I'm going to lower my score a bit to 7, because while originally I hated the graphics but followed the old line of thought that gameplay was key, the graphics in SMAC are definately interfering with the gameplay. Units are fuzzy, it's easy to get one unit confused with another, the screen is way to dark and the terrain is just horrible. The difficulty in differentiating one unit from another can only get worse as the game progresses and more units are on screen. The fuzziness seems all the worse
because I think, "they could have at least increased the sharpness and made it playable."

I never had the honour of seeing the original screenshots, but if they were worse than these, then Brian Reynolds needs eyeglasses and quickly.

It *is* possible to research individual technologies rather than the blanket "reasearch area," by modifying the rules.

I found the automatic terraforming command for the formers to be a paradigm improvement over CivII's. They really work very well now, so that I feel comfortable just using the Shift-A command and letting the AI do the work. The tutorial was drawn out and annoying and I refused to complete it.

The Social Engineering function dissapointed me, it wasn't as crucial a choice as I had anticipated. It did play alot like CivII, which in some instances was good, although in others one yearned for innovation.

Economics in CTP are going to be, I think, much better than what in my opinion was a very flimsy and poor excuse for a model in SMAC, in fact, I can't even say the SMAC economics was a significant improvement on CivII. Economics are vauge and unintuitive, and the "energy" system is perplexing and leaves one wondering "what the hell!?"

The 3-D-ish terrain was interesting, and perhaps it may come into gameplay with long range attack units, although I seriously doubt it. But it doesn't save the game.

All in all I suppose I'm not as upset as most because I really wasn't expecting much more from SMAC. I did expect a decent economic system and average graphics that didn't impede on gameplay and I was dissapointed in those areas. I agree the customization of units never came into play for me either, although I don't mind that at all because the unit interface was horrid, and if it had become necessary to go through it to customize units I would have given this game a 5. I simply wouldn't have tolerated wading through such a terrible interface new unit building.

The darkness alone leaves you depressed

.

The interface is definately not intuitive and takes some getting used to, although some commands are remiscent of CivII (b=build command w=wait command and space bar=skip turn, for instance). Once you get get through the learning curve, you'll be alright, although there's nothing especially wonderful to learn. It's a good game all in all, a good TBS with some major flaws but still rather enjoyable overall.

I agree with MarkG that the technologies names didn't connect with anything in my mind, they seemed very fantastical, although perhaps based on realistic science. Although I got a kick out of Ethical Caculus... if only it were really that simple to figure out right and wrong

.

The units, conversely, were unimginative. "Laser," "Gatling-Laser." And the "Planet Buster," is a very unimginative kinder-gardenish name. "Scout," "Former," "Rover" you get the idea.

I expected nothing Revolutionary here, I had no wild expectations of Sid Meier and his band of divine computer programmers, so I'm not as dissapointed as some SMACer people in their forum. In fact I never expected I would buy this game.

I've a feeling SMAC will really shine in multiplayer, though, but then, so will CTP and perhaps moreso with its myriad of diplomatic options. Things that you'd think innovative in SMAC, like ocean cities, are also being done in CTP, and things in SMAC that seem old hat are being for the most part bettered in CTP.

Another thing is the SMAC AI, which I liked, but I feel really wasn't given a chance to show its stuff because the limited diplomatic options and "phrases" programmed in. I hope CTP doesn't fall into the same trap.

I liked the Planetary Council, and its future potential (attrocities and such being condemned). While I anticipate there will be some attrocity system in CTP, for instance world war in response to a planted nuclear device or some such, it probably won't be as detailed as SMAC's. But that little tidbit is not even close to enough to justifying choosing SMAC over CTP or Sc3k.

All in all, I'm becoming confident now that CTP will be my game of choice.

Red Trotskyite,
POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

December 28, 1998, 06:44

300 turns later, some thoughts...

Good things:
Diplomacy(although there is no "declare war" option!), interface, interesting AI, automated formers and governors work(!), the fact that after 300 turns I feel like I haven't touched the game yet(if you know what I mean)

Bad things(correct me if I'm wrong):
Small control on what you discover(WHY??), no actual trade system(!!!), only 256 colors(we're in 1998-9!), still don't know what I'm discovering(perhaps after 1000 turns)

Overall, SMAC(or better BRAC) is better than civ2. I don't know if it will be better than C:CTP yet. Right now it seems like it will be different, perhaps even uncomparable...

Markos, Apolyton CS

Imran Siddiqui · December 28, 1998, 14:42

Fred, LOL, Many have said things of Red's long posts. Well, the problem for me is the techs really. I need my hands on a manual and quick!! I think I know why the units graphics aren't that great, because they must be easily customizable, the couldn't be too detailed, and Mentat, you can make the units flash, just go into options and select it. I have. I really want to try the later game; I think satellite warfare is going to be cool! Anyway, SMAC is forst on my list of games, followed by Baldur's Gate, and Close Combat 3. Then I'll get either CCTP or Simcity 3000. We shall see.

Imran Siddiqui

Red Trotskyite · December 28, 1998, 17:14

Only people who've a problem with reading, Imran. If you can't bring yourself to read, then don't read, no one is holding a gun to your head.

Anyway, I was wondering, is anyone here familiar with computer programming? If so, it'd be great if someone could hack the demo and remove the turn limit (a huge planet size fix is already floating around).

Red Trotskyite,
POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

Kyle · December 28, 1998, 18:22

Anyway, I was wondering, is anyone here familiar with computer programming? If so, it'd be great if someone could hack the demo and remove the turn limit (a huge planet size fix is already floating around).
<>

While not a hack, someone came up with a Hex Edit, that allows you to play as many turns as you want. However, the technologies, and city restrictions are still in effect.

Try the SMAC boards for details, it seems the page has been removed, so I can't give a URL.

Kumiorava · December 28, 1998, 18:38

The supply pods let you grab materials out of
ANY square on the map, not just the city radius, and then transport them into your cities.

fred · December 29, 1998, 01:30

MarkG have you gotten supply pods yet? I've never used one but I think the have somethig to do with trade.

Red please stop posting such large posts I can't sit infront of my computer that long.

fred

Victor · January 4, 1999, 18:51

For the Huge Planet fix:

Go into Alpha.txt and alter the dimensions of a standard planet to the dimensions of a huge planet.

HACKERS THAT COULD REMOVE RESTRICTIONS ON TECH LIMITS AND OTHER LIMITS WOULD BE GREATLY HONORED HERE!!!!!!!

(I think we all would agree, or the ones that like SMAC)

I am wondering, does anyone here that is playing the demo like to customize formers to move 2 instead of 1?

An interesting thing to do would be to increase the tech discover rate about fourfold, or somewhere around there. I got a Caos Gun, and Silksteel armors, which are COOL!

Anybody discover the tech to get clean reactors (need no support)??? Seems cool!!!

[Can you tell, I'm kind of exited!]

Apocalypse · January 5, 1999, 20:55

If you go to http://sidgames.com/ac (my site) you can find a couple turn hack things and a trainer, a long with lots of tech info.

Biggles · January 5, 1999, 21:50

I don't like it.
It is dark and dismal and just red and blue.
I don't understand the units or the tech advances and can't relate to them.
Will it be possible in the future to use the game engine to base a scenario on an Earth like environment, with units and tech similar to Civ2, or have I just got to wait for CTP?

fred · January 6, 1999, 18:16

BR says that the graphics are going to be better and they are adding improvements to them. I'm not sure if it will be a patch or if it'll be with the game when it ships.

fred

Drakenred · January 9, 1999, 04:36

Ok A few thoghts

1 Brian Finaly solved the AI sticking a Huge Ass Fleet in a land locked pond problem by creating floating cities, thus alowing the Huge assed pond to actualy defend dsomthing in that land locked pond.

1a shouldent Hovercraft be able to travese open land

2 I was STILL able to sucker the AI into a land war it would lose any time i wanted to(sigh)

3 I aparently still need to work on my artilery tacticks(that or Artilery is a total waist of resources exept in building costal/floating city defences)

4 DO NOT stack units unless you have to, as, Colateral damamge will criple/kill them

5 Dad(who started me playing Civ 2 when he showed me Civ 1, and still playes Cive 2 freqently) also played it( i made him a zip drive cpopy), i had to argue with him that it was the Very same Sid Myers who Developed Civ, and not a second rate clone using the "Sid Myers" as gimic(he is stil half convinc SidMyers sold out)

6 I had no problem selecting the EXACT tecks i wanted to develop(you need to check the "game setings when you start each game)

7 the tecks seemed Odd to me(actualy i would have thought that we would have sailed by some of the Level 1, 2, and 3 tecks by the time the Unity launched

8 i REEEEELY wanted to delet the "Nuro-staple" buton from the gamescreen(conveting a disgrunteled drone to a "moral oficer" makes more sence but that just me

Drakenred · January 9, 1999, 04:39

OOPS the line

1 Brian Finaly solved the AI sticking a Huge Ass Fleet in a land locked pond problem by creating floating cities, thus alowing the Huge assed pond to actualy defend dsomthing in that land locked pond.

should read

... thus alowing the Huge assed fleet in said pond to actualy defend something in that land locked pond.

(Sorry)

Chuckles · January 11, 1999, 19:37

Aside from the interface and the 3d terrain, it seems like a REALLY good mod pack to me.