It's about time, and the fancy graphics are good also!

My Wife Hates CIV · June 8, 2000, 07:44

I have found a game better than CIV II. Yes, it's true. I went out and got 1602 last night. Now, I've only played about 3 hours worth but it seems to be the best of CIV and Simcity together. It's an empire building game like CIV (trade, war...) and the city management detail like Simcity (only much better). Also, I'm always saying how crappy fancy graphics are. Just give me gameplay... the graphics in this game are tip top. The makers of CIV III better be checking this game out. It is MP and REALTIME!!! Throw that turn based crap out the window I say. It held me all night and I'm looking forward to playing again (3 day weekend comming up!!). I buy a lot of software and this one is worth the money - it's just fun. If anyone wants screen shots let me know.

Scouse Gits · June 8, 2000, 08:47

I have no opinion myself - but there was a previous thread : http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum22/HTML/000462.html which had an opposing view

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

My Wife Hates CIV · June 8, 2000, 09:07

Sounds like they were messing with the demo and I can't say what that was like. I've tried Caesar3 and didnt like it. It was just missing something. Now, 1602 is very much like it but there are just a few things a bit different. You'd have to play it to see what I'm talking about. True there is no pause but I think that adds to the game. It's realtime and every bit as detailed as CIV II (more so IMHO). If you're a pause every 2 minutes, save/restore when things go bad player you might as well play in cheat mode. If CIV III looks/plays like 1602 than CIV will live on, otherewise I'll be playing this game. Someone (and it's about time) got fancy graphics right without throwing gameplay away. I think those who really like micromanagement in CIV would love this game, but I don't mean that in a bad way (the micromanagement part).

Steve Clark · June 8, 2000, 10:15

That almost sounds blasphemous, MWHC.

I know there are fans and enemies of every game that has ever been developed. Heck, there are people here that raves about The Sims (go figure). As I mentioned a few times, I thought I would like 1602, but I really dislike that style of RT play. It's not just the pause button, but the interface and information screens, imo, are poorly done. Recently, I really took hold of Pharaoh, which has a superb interface and you can slow the game down to, not to reload, but to THINK. 1602 plays too much like a reactionary video game: click-build-click-build-build-build-wait-click-build-build-etc.

My Wife Hates CIV · June 8, 2000, 10:38

Whats the difference between that and CIV... click, build, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, click, build, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait... oh s* it's 11:30pm I'm going to bed!

I like it. The info screens are fine but the interface is a little hard to figure out. As soon as you get that down it's really pretty cool. Like I said, I buy a lot of software and I'm pretty picky. 1602 has many good points. I like the RT play, but, at the time it's still a thinking game. You can't just build anything anywhere. This is where it leaves Simcity behind. The graphics are also very good. Makes CTP look sick. I sure do hope CIV III looks like this.

My Wife Hates CIV · June 8, 2000, 13:23

I'll have to check when I get home. I was looking through the book that comes with the game. In the keyboard short cut section there is a pause command.

Steve Clark · June 9, 2000, 00:17

A point on the graphics. Saying that you want 1602 (or Pharaoh or Caesars3) graphics in Civ3 is like comparing apples and oranges. It has to do with scale. Civ is NOT meant to be a city-building game, it is too high-level for that. Each city in Civ represents a certain level of resources based on terrain. Perhaps the closest comparison would be Railroad Tycoon II where you don't see the individual buildings of a city and it is programmed to display at 1024x728 covering an area similar to Civ2 maps. The details of terrain and resources are the best I've seen for that scale.

Overall, I take your points. It's just that of all games of that style, 1602 forces you into clicking and building much faster than I like. Much faster than Age of Kings, Pharaoh, Caesers3 and SimCity.

My Wife Hates CIV · June 12, 2000, 08:08

I've been playing now for the last 30 or so hours. This game is good. Blows CIV II away.

It's got the empire building of CIV, real time war of AOE and the city management/layout of SC3000. It's not to the scale of CIV (having 20 or 30 cities), but there is so much more detail to each city. It's not a real complex game to play (as far as interface) but it's got lots of detail. The graphics and animations are the best I've seen. Why couldnt CTP have been like this?!?! It's a great balance. I have not tried MP yet but the real time part of the game is a big advantage over the turn based crap in CIV. I want to play - not wait while everyone else is!

The battle graphics are pretty neat also. Everything moving around and fighting it out adds to the game. You have to stay alert. Navy battles are good also.

There is no pause where you can look around. Pause takes you to a pause screen. Thats the only bad thing about it. But, that in itself adds something a little different to the game.

So far this is the best game I've purchased in some years. If you like CIV you should try this game, it's pretty good. CIV III??? whats that?

Smash · June 12, 2000, 18:01

well I'm thoroughly confused.Not that isn't normal.

I've read 1602 is absolute piece of crap and not worth any attention at all.But you say it is very good and worth every cent.

I don't know

John-SJ · June 12, 2000, 19:05

Well, I played the demo and had some reservations about this game. Then, at a time when I was temporarily bored with Civ (GASP! You were WHAT?!!?) I broke down and bought the game. Unfortunately, my impression was just the opposite of MWHC.

I found that I really didn't care for the play style at all, and for some reason I just couldn't get into the game. I was bored by the second evening I played and haven't played since.

Maybe this is one of those love it or hate it games, but personally I could not recommend it.

John-SJ

My Wife Hates CIV · June 12, 2000, 22:58

The combat part is what I like best. It's real time. It's always moving. It's not a chess game, you have to be able to think and move at the same time. Meanwhile, you have an empire to look after, people to keep happy and supplies to stock. I would think if one liked CIV they would enjoy this game. Unlike CIV a game does not become dull after a few days because the AI is a lot better. In fact, there is AI (they forgot about it in CIV).

I've always been one to say forget fancy graphics and give me gameplay. I like the fancy graphics in this game.

I also liked SC3000 but I dont play it anymore because the game has so many flaws. 1602 is actually a better city simulator than SC3000. It's also a better war game than CIV. The city management is also WAY better. There's just so much to do.

Steve Clark · June 13, 2000, 10:58

But Civ2 is not a city simulator or a war game, it is a civilization-building game. Why do you keep comparing apples to oranges?

I think it's great that you found a game that you like, but I do find it humorous that you caught on to 1602. I would guess that you will get tired of this game and move on to something else or dare I say, back to Civ?

I've been playing Pharaoh alot recently but I don't say it is better or worse than Civ2, it's just a different style of game offering a different experience. However, Civ2 is the only game in my 12+ years of playing PC games that I have kept and will keep replaying every month for years.

My Wife Hates CIV · June 14, 2000, 00:28

I disagree. This game is an empire building sim. True, maybe you dont have 30 cities to control, instead only 5 or 6 but it's very much the same kinda game. Now, the detail of each city is where it leaves CIV II behind, and I do think of CIV as a city building game.

Both games are very much alike. Cities, trade, units, exploration, war, diplomacy... not really apples to oranges.

Imran Siddiqui · June 14, 2000, 00:59

Eww... A real time, Civ-like (even though it is only 5-6 cities, which really doesn't compare to a great game like Civ) game. Sorry, but the only real time I like is for war games.

Par4 · June 16, 2000, 02:53

Oh god 1602 what a load of crap I hate this it was such a waste of money, Pharaoh is soo much better. The trade is screwed up, ships are screwed up they get stuck on 1 side of an island, you can't make enough money, mines mysteriously dry up, logging camps mysteriously run out of logs when theres a freaking forest right next to them, fisheries never catch any fish. Please MWHC tell me how you put boats on auto to move goods from island type to island. Combat sucks, taking over islands is evil you can just wall in and be impenitrable if you have enough cannons, and having to destroy market places that just keep getting built argh I hate this game.

Get Pharaoh instead, its way way way better, so much better, this game blows 1602 out of the water like a nuke blowing up an orca whale.

The 1602 blows, well I can't say that just don't buy it it sucks a big one. Any bad review about it is true, this game sucks. But be on the lookout for 1503 it looks to be ok.

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My Wife Hates CIV · June 16, 2000, 08:16

hahaha I don't know why you're having so many problems. One thing I like about this game is that things DO WORK so well. Yes, you do need auto trade routes working or it becomes too much work for you. It's not hard, read the manual and play around with it. It took me about 15 minutes to figure it out. Read the manual again about mines (there are many different types) and you'll understand why some dry up. Combat is the best. Sure, against the AI it's kinda like CIV II, although still better IMHO.

I don't know why I like it if so many seem to hate it?? I think it's very good. check out...
http://www.anno1602.de/english/index.html

I'm MWHC of course of this board.

Par4 · June 17, 2000, 00:59

I don't know why you aren't having so many problems, everyone else is. The manual says nothing about telling when mines run out, why my logging camp doesn't log, why the fishery doesn't fish, and the ships won't go to auto pick up goods from pine tree island and take them to banana tree island then take goods from banana tree island and bring them back to pine tree island and repeat. It won't do that it it only trade routes auto.

The game sucks but if you want to try it, better make sure the store allows returns for crappy games.

------------------
I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
HappyLand
There is no spoon,
But there is a knife

Geography Dan · June 25, 2000, 01:12

I bought 1602 just a few days ago, and I agree that it is a great game.

There's just one problem I have:

I always run out of money buying more tools before I get to the point at which I can actually make my own tools. Is there some easy way to solve this that I am overlooking?

Geography Dan · June 25, 2000, 01:13

However, I also like Pharaoh and Caesar3. Does anyone know when Impressions Games will be making another game? Will it be Caesar4 or Pharaoh2 or some new type?

Par4 · June 25, 2000, 02:13

Zeus: Master of Olympus

Click zee link

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Let's kick it up a notch!!
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[This message has been edited by Par4 (edited June 25, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Par4 (edited June 25, 2000).]

Geography Dan · June 25, 2000, 11:14

Looks interesting. Thanks for the link.

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Geography Dan · June 26, 2000, 13:40

Interesting. I checked the link you gave but it didn't say when it would be released. Do you know?

-GeoDan

Steve Clark · June 27, 2000, 00:49

...and the Pharaoh expansion pack, Cleopatra.
http://cleopatra.impressionsgames.com/

Caesar Addictus · June 27, 2000, 13:26

quote:

Originally posted by Geography Dan on 06-25-2000 01:12 AM
I bought 1602 just a few days ago, and I agree that it is a great game.

There's just one problem I have:

I always run out of money buying more tools before I get to the point at which I can actually make my own tools. Is there some easy way to solve this that I am overlooking?

Hi, this is my favorite game next to Civ II.
I come back to it about as often (even though I still buy new games).

There are many ways to help your financial problems: 1) Create more houses for more population 2) Always raise taxes to the maximum possible before the happy face becomes unhappy. You need to raise the taxes for every category of population that you have (pioneers, settlers, etc). 3) sell stuff (wood, bricks, material, etc) either by offering them for sale to the free traders, or by selling them directly for a better price. 4) Limit how many tools you buy. At first the tools come in so slowly that you would never consider limiting how many you buy, but later they come in quite fast. 5) Here's a good trick. If you start buying tools immediately, you can get away with paying only 75/ton or so. Sometimes I've been able to get all the tools I need for just 67/ton. 6) Start making your own tools as soon as you can. BTW you don't even need an iron ore mine. You can simply buy iron ore from the free traders (again at a cheaper rate than the default -- I buy mine at around 46/ton. That said, I usually do build a mine to get ore faster, besides, the traders don't start selling ore until at least one player has tapped a mine. After my iron mine runs out, I just rely on the trader (the trader is cheaper than a deep mine anyway).

Have fun.

Leonidas · June 27, 2000, 21:45

I haven't tried 1602 yet - so I have no opinion on the game

.

However, I read every review I could get my hands on, and most of these reviews range from somewhat liking the game (3.5 stars out of 5) to completely disliking the game (and giving it a very poor rating). Several issues raised in the reviews involve the lack of documentation for many of the most important economic aspects of the game. Hence player frustration - not knowing what to do. In addition, this game was released in Germany and Europe over two years ago (April 1998) by a German company called Sunflower. Apparently, this game sold very well in Europe. But even so, you would think that all the issues, problems and bugs would have been fixed by now (D'oh).

Also, on its website "Anno 1602", it states that you need the official expansion pack before you can download and play any of the newly made scenarios. But all of the descriptions for the scenarios on this website are in German. If a German company is trying to capture the US/Canada market - then maybe the company should think about translating its product downloads into English - hello << echo >> Is this thing on? << taps microphone >>.

My advice to anyone thinking about buying this game is to try the demo and read the reviews. There are just too many truly excellent games out there to waste your money on any above average games.

To those who love this game (and who are not involved with this product or the company in any way) - all the power to you. But remember, this is not a new game - it is a two year old game that is now being marketed in North America.

Is 1602 better than Civ II? Well, there are so many scenarios available for CivII that it's like having hundreds of games in one. While 1602 plays within the parameters of that century; Civ II's playground spans the entire history of mankind (and often well into the future through user scenarios).

And as far as real-time goes - I have yet to find a real-time game that is truly a thoughtful and strategic game. That is why CivII, CivIII, SMAC, etc will live on...

See... I told you I didn't have an opinion

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Go tell the Spartans, passerby:
That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

[This message has been edited by Leonidas (edited June 28, 2000).]

John-SJ · June 28, 2000, 08:35

About Pharoah, Cleopatra.

According to EBWorld it will be released on 7/11, and cost $19.95. Check out http://www.ebworld.com/ebx/categorie...p?pf_id=181762

John-SJ

[This message has been edited by John-SJ (edited June 28, 2000).]

Par4 · June 28, 2000, 11:01

PCGamer says about 7/XX too

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gamma_par4@hotmail.com
There is no spoon
-The Matrix
Let's kick it up a notch!!
-Emeril Lagasse
Fresh Soy makes Tofu so silky
-Ming Tsai

Leonidas · June 29, 2000, 00:22

To help you decide, here are reviews by several people who actually played 1602 AD:

http://www.pcgr.com/reviews/strategy...7.asp?RVNum=-1

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Go tell the Spartans, passerby:
That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.
[This message has been edited by Leonidas (edited June 29, 2000).]