ALPHA CENTARI VS. C:CTP

Farmboy Bob · December 7, 1998, 20:49

Which one will be better? Are both to be rated seperately? A hybrid of the two games, in order to produce a super-game??

Opinion?

p.s dont ***** me out for grammer

Imran Siddiqui · December 8, 1998, 00:13

Um, isn't there like a whole forum to deal with this? Anyway, I think SMAC will be the best, without a doubt, only Sid could make the "true" sequel to Civ2

Imran Siddiqui
Sid Meier fan

Daniel Frappier · December 8, 1998, 01:10

Sid didn't made Civ II, Brian Reynolds did, and who knew Brian before Civ II ?

Okay, okay Sid had a participation and his name was on the box.... and he got a check.... but for maybe each hour he putted on the game, Brian putted 100!

So the same arguments you are using for CtP (without Sid) could have been use for Civ II.

Victor · December 8, 1998, 11:12

Personally, I'm waiting for reviews before I say C:CTP is better than SMAC or vice-versa. C:CTP certainly *looks* promising.

Talon · December 8, 1998, 17:44

Umm... I havn't looked that much at C:CTP so right now I think SMAC will be the better game. Sid has to have some input on the game or else his name wouldn't be on the box right?

-Talon
"I refuse to go with the flow"

Imran Siddiqui · December 8, 1998, 17:46

Actually Dan, Sid, in Civ2 as well as in SMAC, came up with the ideas. He said what to put in, what should be different. It is his idea, without him, Civ2 wouldn't have been as good as it was. Sid is the genius (not to demean Brian, or anything)

Imran Siddiqui
Sid Meier fan

Daniel Frappier · December 8, 1998, 20:03

Maybe Imran, but I don't think Civ II contained a lot of revolutionary ideas over Civ I.

Anyway, I am not much of a gamer but only a Civilization addict. For me only CtP can be considered a new Civ since Firaxis choose to do a Sci Fi game instead and not a Civ game.

Tool · December 8, 1998, 20:41

I agree with Daniel. If SMAC was the only Civ type game coming out, I'd been pissed.
I like the original idea of starting an empire on earth...not fighting a bunch of other clans for control of some weird planet out in space. But that's just my opinion.

Imran Siddiqui · December 8, 1998, 22:52

Well, what do you think sequel means?? CTP is based on the same exact game. My feeling is if someone tries another Civ game like Civ2 (best game of all time), like maybe Civ4. No one would buy it. People would get tired of the same thing without much variation (btw, I don't think Activison is putting much of a change in it as well). The "true" sequel is SMAC, starting from the end of Civ2.

Imran Siddiqui

Victor · December 8, 1998, 22:55

C:CTP is not a sequel. It is an awesome refinement and extension. When it comes out, we will know if another refinement is needed. Think, we need a little more tech. before we can travel to a star, but a space station is actually happening.

SnowFire · December 8, 1998, 23:43

Remember folks, we don't want a remake of Civ2. And Civ2 was pretty darn near perfect in what it chose to include and exclude. Some of the things CTP seems to be including were left out intentionaly by Sid, with good reason. SMAC is an innovative sequel with many new options, since its Sci-fi with a new setting (but still a veneer of realism since it is near-future not far future). CTP, while I hope is a good game and one I intend to buy eventually if the reviews are good, may easily have stepped over the line (remember the park ranger debates?). Anyone remember a game called "Destiny?" That had a lot of stuff Civ left out... too bad the game was horrible... CTP will be good, and a fair chance of being great, but it will not be a classic. SMAC will be great, and stands a good chance of becoming a classic.

-SnowFire
"Solidairty between SMACers in a hostile land is our greatest ally"

Quirinus · December 9, 1998, 00:18

Bloody hell! I do not understand why you're all bothering to argure about this!

Both are turn based, empire building games.

Other than that, they're two different games. I don't think you can compare them - both have a different conceptual background.

Besides, everyone'll probably buy/steal/pirate both anyway!

cheers,
Q.

Daniel Frappier · December 9, 1998, 01:40

It looks like we all agree Civ II is the greatest game of all time, but I would not say it was near perfect, far from it....for all it's greatness it could have been better in many ways....

The strength of CtP is that they kept it close to Civ II and added a gamer's dream wish list, some of my favorites but not necessarly everyone's:

Multiplayer that won't take a month to play, Rewritable A.I. , Real Trade system, Real Combat system and a great interface.

SnowFire, I am not sure to what part of the game you are referring to (maybe besides combat, but then again I don't know a lot of player who tought loosing a stack of units was realistic), that Sid left out and that they have included but I would like to know.

Red Trotskyite · December 9, 1998, 01:45

Oh Lord Sid, I worship thee, who cares that all the work in Civilization II and SMAC is being done by thou apprentice, Brian Reynolds, thou art God.

*slap snap*

Oh, sorry there for a second, thought I was Imran

CCTP and SMAC both look promising and both are sporting innovative new features that make me drool. The Government-Economy selection system in SMAC is going to be a lot cooler than the "blanket-Political-Economies" in Civ games of yore. The wage selection system in Civ CTP is going to make micromanaging very fun for me. (raise wages, abolish slavery!)

The trade routes system in CTP looks good, I like the SMAC border thing and the UN. In short, both games are promising features that, if delivered, are going to knock any diehard Civver out. But one cannot judge until the games have come out.

I don't think the CTP Futurism is going to be as bad as many thing, though. And they're even hinting they'll change the Park Ranger name. (Clean Nuclear Missle would be just fine)

Anyway, we'll have to wait and see.

I do think, however, it's easy to draw a comparisan because both are based on the same genre.

What is it with the anti-CTP attitude of some SMACers? It looks like insecurity to me.

Red Trotskyite
POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
DOWN WITH CTPophobia!

Imran Siddiqui · December 9, 1998, 03:10

Um, no Red. SMACers are abhorrent at CTp beacuse of the fear that SId's legacy will be trashed by silly units and the such. And Actually Sid's ideas made SMAC and Civ2, Brain Reyolds produced it, but Sid decided how the game was going to work. He decided what was to be different. Civ2 and SMAC were all Sid's vision, and, in fact, Sid already has another game mapped out, which will be given full attention by Brain after SMAC.

Imran Siddiqui
Sid Meier Defender

Quirinus · December 9, 1998, 03:14

They both look like good games
They are two different games

They both look like good games
They are two different games
They both look like good games
They are two different games
They both look like good games
They are two different games
They both look like good games
They are two different games
They both look like good games
They are two different games
They both look like good games
They are two different games
They both look like good games
They are two different games
They both look like good games
They are two different games

War · December 9, 1998, 04:03

You don't speak for all "SMACers", Imran, so stop pretending. Who elected you their spokesperson? The village idiot?

Anyway, I'm a "SMACer." I'm sure I'll buy the game and I'll most likely enjoy it a lot. I'm sure I'll buy CTP as well and I'll also most likely enjoy it a lot.

My main confidence in CTP is that the designers seem to understand the importance of improving the efficiency of the interface. The interface improvements I've read about assures me that they're on the right track. I'm not so sure about SMAC in this department. But they'll probably come thru also. I expect both games to be very good.

DCA · December 9, 1998, 04:49

Well, I'm one of those SMAC'ers, and I think CTP looks really good. I like the streamlining of trade and the promises of a diplomacy system that makes more sense than the old Civ2 system.

Oh, yeah: the silly units. I think they could do some of this stuff at a higher level of abstraction than the unit level, but that doesn't mean those units will ruin the game in any way. Slavery, terrorism, televangelism (believe me, they're part of the Illuminati's plans to take over the world!!

) and whatever are important parts of civilization, and shouldn't be ignored.

Anyway, Imran is definitely not the SMAC forums' spokesfella, and Sid & Brian are not gods (which is good, I hate gods).

DCA,
Reality is the temporary resultant of the struggle between rival gangs of programmers.

Akbar · December 9, 1998, 17:16

I relay those insightful words of wisdom from Quirinus regarding this topic.

Jay · December 10, 1998, 16:57

Who elected Imran as a spokesperson?
WE DID!!!
The BoS did!
And if we wouldn't be in war with CWAL HV they would have elected him too!

I'm giving Imran my 100% support (except in case he says something stupid).

Jay
a SMAC-fanatic

PS. Yup, I'm a fanatic. Don't even try to convince me to byu C:CTP.

Milan · December 28, 1998, 09:48

Ok, now, most of you have either gona the CTP way or the SMAC way. I say, play CTP, and when you finish a game, play a game of SMAC. I know I like CTP a bit better than SMAC, and I will probably buy it. If I get the money, or maybe if the game comes my way, I'll get SMAC. I have nothing against either game, and I don't see how you can compare two games that have so many differences. Also, I have an idea.
Why not go one further and COMBINE CTP and SMAC?? stick SMAC at the end of CTP and you have a game that goes into 10000AD!!!
How's that for an idea??

Mentat · December 29, 1998, 08:34

Milan, it sounds like something that might happen a few years from now in some sort of 'classics' CD (or DVD), but not sooner, seeing as they are from two different companies.

Anyway, from what I know of C:CTP, and what I've played of SMAC, I would have to say that C:CTP looks to be the more innovative of the two. SMAC seems to be just a rehash of the Civ2, only on a different planet. Nothing very innovative here, as some have suggested. Of course C:CTP is also a rehash, one in which I hope to see more innovation than in SMAC.

Why is it, that after three games, Sid Meiers still hasn't added a 'declare war' option to the diplomacy screen?

Colon™ · December 29, 1998, 09:24

You mean,... you still have to sneak attack ?! This gotta be a joke !

December 29, 1998, 14:49

In SMAC the only way to avoid sneak attack(in order to start a war) is to demand things all the time. But this doesn't work always. Lots of times the AI wont attack you or declare a vendetta(as war is called in SMAC) whatever you say or demand, even if you have troops in his area.

Markos, Apolyton CS

Zorloc · December 31, 1998, 14:18

Although there is not a "Declare Vendetta"... One of my favorite features is demanding cities. If you cross your enemies boarder w/ overwealming force and surround a city, you call up the faction leader and demand the city, frequently they'll give it to you. This is great.

Also in deplomacy, the AI players will surrender. It is the equivilant of an alliance but they are completely submissive.

Very cool.

As for the graphics, in the game there will be a gamma adjustment, and according to BR it will be added to the demo sometime in January.

Biggles · January 4, 1999, 03:59

I don't think I will be buying SMAC. The demo was a big disappointment.
I can only afford to buy one Civ2 replacement. It looks like CTP will retain more of the things that I liked about Civ2.
When will get a CTP demo?

January 4, 1999, 16:38

Biggles,

Unfortunately, I'm with you. I was just very disappointed with the demo. It had alot of promise, but there was something missing. Maybe it was rushed, because it felt SOOO rough around the edges. The really bad graphics didn't help much either. Although the story and sound were good.

I think CtP is going to the surprisingly better game of the 2.

BiznatcH · January 4, 1999, 19:01

cmon, jay, get with the program. You people go so far as to say you have a Spokesperson for a group of people that think that SMAC will be great. Who is the "we" - you and 10 other people if even that? cmon.

You dont have to buy ctp, thats fine with me 100%. But to see someone as "god" because they like the game you like, i dont think so.

btw, I thought that the SMAC demo was kinda cool. I do hope they incorporate the declare war option at the last minuete though or in a patch or something. The one thing that bugged me was where the flag on the unit is - its in the square up and to the left. you dont know how many times i moved the unit to the wrong square.

Just wait untill both games are out!

ChaosX2 · January 5, 1999, 16:13

Both games are cool, but both are different. I've been playing Civ since it first came out. Civ 2 was a great improvement but it mainly had new tech and more units. CCTP seems to have alot more than that it is truly a new ver. of Civ. However SMAC is totaly different than civ. The objectives are different overall. So you can't compair the two. At least not properly. I would like to buy both but I am a die hard Civ fan so I'm going for C:CTP

Apocalypse · January 5, 1999, 20:41

Here is what I said in a post at the sidgames.com forum on what SMAC has over CTP (BTW, I am a game box collector):
"Well lets see, better AI (which is what a lot of people like), better box (by far), units you would take a little more seriously than Eco Ranger , more costomizability (by far), more replayibility (by far), better multiplayer features (by atleast twice as much), OSI, better box (by far), Chris McCubbing doing the manual, "Balls" , Ely doing cutscenes, better tech support, better box (by far), many addons coming up..."

There are more but I was only saying "some"

Also, on the Imran spokesguy issue, I've know him since June, and he speaks for the SMACers.