Simultaneous movement bugs anyone?

Crustacian · January 22, 2001, 02:19

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum29/HTML/000882.html?20

This link contains some interesting comments by John Possidente regarding the story behind simul moves and
he mentions the reason it was not included in civIIMP was because of some big non intended oppertunities that could be exploited in this mode:

"The simultaneous human movement thing was actually a leftover from the Multiplayer Gold Edition. The team put it in and it seemed to work, but in testing we found that it caused major game play problems, including opportunities for blatant cheating. So, we nixed it in the shipping version, but the code, like a trick knee, remained in place waiting to cause trouble. We developed ToT based on a version of the MGE code-base--thus the legacy simultaneous human turns code."

"I also don't remember the specifics of how folks cheated using the simultaneous movement. What I remember is the testers throwing things across the room at each other when somebody got caught. :-) It had something to do with changing the doubling parameters during the game or attacking or editing other players' cities after they'd finished their turn, or something like that--things only a determined cheater (or a skillful tester) would even try, I suppose."

So has anyone experienced these kinds of things or other consistant "bugs" while using simul moves?

------------------
The journey itself is the thing~Odysseus

January 22, 2001, 02:49

No, but it seems odd they would take simult out for such things. They seem no different from other possible cheats that are in the game and we live with (and detect easily). This is such a great feature, they should have left it in and let us deal with the bugs (and buggers).

------------------
Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited January 22, 2001).]</font>

Crustacian · January 22, 2001, 02:55

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Alexander's Horse on 01-22-2001 01:49 AM</font>
bugs (and buggers).

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

now that is funny

It does save a lot of time in playing, and as always it is good to play in games with players you trust.

January 22, 2001, 03:04

One thing we haven't tested yet though is a big war, lots of potential for disputes and bugs I think.

------------------
Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

finbar · January 22, 2001, 03:05

What did the guy mean by "editing" someone else's city? I'm also still wondering how a war would be fought under the simultaneous system. Very confusingly, I'd've thought.

Edit. You beat me to it by a single minute, Horse.

------------------
Founder, ACS Pedantry Institute
Founder, ACS Gourmet Recipe Exchange
Troll & Hydey Wrangler
Mono Rules!
#33984591
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by finbar (edited January 22, 2001).]</font>

Crustacian · January 22, 2001, 03:09

Carnide said and I can imagine that in a big war you can not see or anticipate all the places of attack so even as host there is no big advantage in a large attack cuz you can only be so many places at once.

No one has mentioned experiencing any bugs so far so this was news to me.

One guy could not offload a transport for some reason while playing simul, but it may be a fluke not related to simuls

Crustacian · January 22, 2001, 03:11

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by finbar on 01-22-2001 02:05 AM</font>
What did the guy mean by "editing" someone else's city

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

don't know. Is a fluke also a bug?

January 22, 2001, 03:50

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Crustacian on 01-22-2001 02:09 AM</font>
Carnide said and I can imagine that in a big war you can not see or anticipate all the places of attack so even as host there is no big advantage in a large attack cuz you can only be so many places at once.

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Can somebody please go and explain this to Deity? He won't listen to me. He's already preparing the "host advantage" defence for when he loses a war in simult

------------------
Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited January 22, 2001).]</font>

Crustacian · January 22, 2001, 04:07

Or just have Deity host

It is partly what you get accustomed to, and I am not yet used to moving a horse 1 sq and having another horse beat me to the punch either.
Again it may just be what you get used to.

finbar · January 22, 2001, 07:37

Something strange happened in the simul game last night. I lost a settler because - the dialogue box said - it wasn't supported. It was. Well and truly. And there was heaps of food. I don't know whether it was the simul aspect or not, but it's never happened to me before in normal play.

------------------
Founder, ACS Pedantry Institute
Founder, ACS Gourmet Recipe Exchange
Troll & Hydey Wrangler
Mono Rules!
#33984591

weird god · January 22, 2001, 10:08

LAG is not a bug but a big prob. it ´s hard to sucessfully land troops near cities when you have lag. i remember a game where my hard trained valuable catapult-armada reached my enemie´s terrain and got catapult for catapult killed by some single crusaders. he wouldn´t have wisstand this attack under normal conditions or if the lag would have been on the other feet.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by weird god (edited January 22, 2001).]</font>

Curumbor Elendil · January 22, 2001, 10:52

Bugs with simul moves that I know of:

Huge host advantage in small-scale wars, a lot of people have complained about this.

While you're trying to chat, frequently a unit will activate without your knowledge, and your typing in chat will actually send orders to them!

Sometimes everyone will end his turn, and the game will simply not advance.

People not being able to rejoin a game seems to be more of a problem than under normal settings, especially in larger games.

Defender's advantage in wars of any scale. During an overwhelming attack, this advantage is nullified, but it can still make a difference about how far it goes. I played the French in the standard WW2 scenario against another player playing the Germans, and I managed to hold most of my empire and to take back Paris eventually.

I don't think these problems wreck non-serious games; for serious games they, especially the first one, need to be taken into account. That's why I support Deity's suggestion of moving to turn-based during wars.

------------------
Curumbor Elendil
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~jps35/
ICQ 56126989

January 22, 2001, 21:03

I'm sympathetic to the concerns over host advantage but the problem is in our group we have seen at least one very good game go to the dogs because a big war broke out and the combatants were so dreadfully slow at making their moves, refusing point blank to use a timer, that the game eventually went to E-mail and then was never finished. Personally I would prefer to at least try and put up with the vagaries of simult if it kept good games alive - rotating hosting for example is not a perfect solution may even things out.

One factor people fail to take into account is a crazy little thing called "the fog of war". Simult could be said to simulate that because, just as in war, it varies results in unexpected ways

------------------
Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.