Thread Tools
Old June 17, 1999, 11:37   #31
Kris Huysmans
Warlord
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Belgium
Posts: 101
You can then simple destroy the partisans. go with a team of 10 engeniers to the destroyed railroad and build them back in one turn by using a group of enegeniers for every part of the railroad. I used this strategy in civ2 to conquer empires that hadn't railroads.
I found the idea that you can't use railroads in your enemies borders better.

<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Kris Huysmans (edited June 17, 1999).]</font>
Kris Huysmans is offline  
Old June 17, 1999, 13:31   #32
don Don
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Harel said he wants "Near-by tiles effect one another. Mines cause negative impact of near-by farms ( more metal in the land ) but gives a small bonus to near-by mines. Same thing will farms ( if all the near-by area is becoming fertile, that will also effect the specific tile )"

Civ2 already has that, just not for neighboring tiles. Think of this: a tile is 100± miles across—and yet you can't have both mines and irrigation/farms tile improvements at the same time. Stupid!

Harel also said "Instead that the city will be a one-box unit, have city tiles. The tech will decide how many every tile can house…"

Civ2 already has that, too. How? Population isn't linear, it's an arithmetic series. Size 1 city = 10k, size 2 = 30k, … , size n = [Sum of 1 to n]k population. Also consider this: New York City proper has nearly 8 million citizens, and is only 320 square miles. Even the suburban sprawl for 50 mile radius is likely within the one tile of the city proper.

(PS: I'm not picking on you, Harel.)

For some road ideas see <A HREF="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000130.html">MOVEMENT, SUPPLY, ETC. (2.0)</A>
 
Old June 17, 1999, 14:43   #33
Harel
Prince
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Ramat Hasharon, Israel
Posts: 326
Allways ready to defend myself from my picking enemies, don don

If you might have noticed, I suggested that the map will be much bigger, atleast 1000x1000. Then, ofcourse, my ideas are based on that.
In such a scale, every box will be around 20 miles. Heavy industry DOES effect farm lands which are at this distance from a town.
New York city has 8 million people ( 11.5, but never mind ). However, I did say that you have a tile-pop-level. The center of new-york house many sky-scrapers.
The old city of Rome covered huge grounds, with it subarbs it nearly covered the size of the city of new-york. Yet is only housed 1 million people.
Moscow is a huge city, covering enough area even to fill two squares of old civ (!!). Same as Paris. Tokyo and Hiroshima are now bonded, covering a huge metropolitan.

I am not the first to suggest bigger maps and expanding cities. It is only logical. Using the 20 miles box, some cities can even expand to several radi with current housing technology. Not to mention the old cities of lore.

BTW, roads by defintion belong to the terrian improvemnt section. YOU took over something that doesn't belong to you.
Harel is offline  
Old June 17, 1999, 15:13   #34
Diodorus Sicilus
Warlord
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Steilacoom, WA, USA
Posts: 189
I'm goona keep making this point until I've posted it in every thread, I guess...
Spread of cities, effective improving of tiles, use of resources, is All Tied To Transportation.
Specifically, with early roads/paths, it doesn't matter what kind of irrigation/farms etc you have in the outer tiles of a city radius, none of their products can get to the city! The reason railroads increase Food production in CivII is that railroads allowed a much greater percentage of farm production to get to the cities.
Earlier, river transport was critical to long-distance transportation of food.
Which leads me to say again: city radius should vary with the terrain and transportation available. In the beginning, with only pack animals (oxen, donkeys were domesticated before 4000BC) and dirt paths, the effective city radius is only one tile in all directions UNLESS the city is on a river- then riverboats (2600BC and earlier on the Nile) can extend it a tile or two up and doen the river.
Add improved roads (paved, Roman-style) and the city radius gets out to about what it is in CivII.
Add railroads and the city radius is effectively wherever the railroad connects to. Other threads have posts on Economic Provinces or Regions, and the railroad or river (or an ocean with the ports on it and open-ocean cargo ships like the medieval Cog or Carrack) would be the transportation that ties that together.
Modern Containerized freight, Intercity highways, railroads, allow the "urban sprawl" or effectively multi-tile cities like New York, which effectively includes most of northern New Jersey, western Long Island, and southern Connecticut, or Los Angeles, which effectively spreads from San Diego north to near Santa Barbara. Foreign mega-cities like Paris, Berlin, Mexico City, and Moskva are other examples: modern transportation allows larger city radius and exploitation of resources further away by the city.
Diodorus Sicilus is offline  
Old June 17, 1999, 15:52   #35
Harel
Prince
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Ramat Hasharon, Israel
Posts: 326
Good thinking Diodorus. It's un-doubted that indeed transportion needs to decide the city radi. If, like BR said, borders will be decided by Tech, i think it's possible that the city radius would also be decided by tech.
I think it's even more related with the idea of big maps and big cities.
However, I dont think thats what the idea with railroads in CIV II, cause otherwise roads would have had some food bonus increase, but smaller.
Besides, how can just placing a railroad that sometime didn't even connect to the city increase food automaticly?

Here is my idea. You can put farm at a distance of one box out of the city. The city may expand, but you can only put farmers just one step away.
Placing roads in a box near the city allow you to place farmers all around that box. It's not carrying: putting one other road near the old road won't allow further, deeper expand.
Railroads allow double radius: you can place a railroad, gain the surrounding area and then place ANOTHER railroad by it, giving you further away distance.
Monorails would allow a three time the distance, allowing you a big farming radi.
Harel is offline  
Old June 17, 1999, 15:56   #36
don Don
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Harel:
Hmmm, if by "old civ" you mean civ1, those tiles were about 230 x 290 miles based on the map being ice-cap to ice-cap. That's 66k sq mi, maybe bigger than the State of New York! A Civ2 large map is more distorted from 1:1 ratio, but each tile would be about 12.5k sq mi at the equator. No city is even close to that big, not even the metroplexes (some stretch well over 100 miles, but aren't very wide).

"BTW, roads by defintion belong to the terrian improvemnt section. YOU took over something that doesn't belong to you."

No, it's movement! Mine, all mine!
 
Old June 17, 1999, 16:11   #37
don Don
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Diodorus Sicilus:
I think we have to move away from the thinking that a "city" in Civ2 et al. is a city, but rather a province with a capital in the middle. The population is for the whole region, and maybe only 25% or less is in the "city." Most states in America are sorta like this, and many smaller countries, too: one big city, nothing else even close in size or economic importance.

Harel:
Shortly after RR became a truly viable economic factor food allocation ceased to be a local matter. Cattle were driven from Texas to Kansas City, and then shipped by RR to Chicago meatpackers, and the meat shipped all over the US. OK, for tomatos it was still local because tomatos don't ship well.
 
Old June 17, 1999, 16:16   #38
Theben
Deity
 
Theben's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Posts: 15,132
(in old man voice) Me'n don Don were here arguin' 'bout all them civ3-type things long a'fore you whippersnappers came along, before it was even a twinkle in BR's eye. So, young feller, by definition ALL topics are OURS.
Theben is offline  
Old June 17, 1999, 17:29   #39
Ecce Homo
Prince
 
Local Time: 09:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 312
Wow, this topic is booming...

Wheathin wrote:
Quote:
Each player builds their own railroads, and they would be color-coded to the civ.
This could be made even simpler. Railroads are colour-coded, and the colour changes when an enemy unit enters it - just like the Airbases in Civ 2. (Of course it cannot move for free).

Or, the railroads should be "converted" on the next turn.

Or, they could only be used by the civ that owns the nearest city.

Unconventional units should always be able to use all railroads.

<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Ecce Homo (edited June 17, 1999).]</font>
Ecce Homo is offline  
Old June 17, 1999, 17:38   #40
EnochF
Prince
 
EnochF's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 610
No kidding. I'm going to have to write a summary of 50 posts the day after the topic started! Yeesh.
EnochF is offline  
Old June 17, 1999, 19:58   #41
Bubba
Warlord
 
Bubba's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 104
Get rid of the nets from CTP they are extremely ugly late in the game.
Bubba is offline  
Old June 17, 1999, 20:08   #42
EnochF
Prince
 
EnochF's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 610
Honestly, this is childish. Railroads are ugly, nets are ugly.

Instead of getting rid of them, wouldn't a better solution be simply to make prettier nets and prettier railroads?
EnochF is offline  
Old June 17, 1999, 20:44   #43
Alexander's Horse
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: more restrictions/greater gradation of terrain modification for farming. I think irrigation should be more confined. Only small areas of farmland, on a global basis, are irrigated even today. Irrigation should be strictly linked to rivers (because there is irrigation in some mountanous regions as well). Progression should be "farmland" replace "irrigation", which would be the next step only in hexes with rivers running through. "Farmland" could be further developed to specialise in crops (more food) or pasture (more trade/gold). This could possibly be linked to terrain type (most crops are grown on plains). Irrigated land would combine the best features of crops and pasture (big food plus big bucks and trade). The modern upgrade could "agro-industry", possibly retaining the diversification to crops and pasture but with higher yields for each (little factory silos could be the graphic).

<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited June 17, 1999).]</font>

<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited June 17, 1999).]</font>

<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited June 17, 1999).]</font>
 
Old June 17, 1999, 20:54   #44
Eggman
Prince
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 831
I would like to stress that all things being equal, less tile improvements are better than more tile improvements. There may be a good reason to make the Civ2 model (or even the CTP model) more complex in this regard in some circumstances *when it adds something to the game* (for example, a mine upgrade and listening posts are fine by me). However, though five different farming improvements may be more realistic, it would drive me batty trying to keep them organized and it adds nothing to the game.

Also, if you have multiple improvements for the same thing (say farming), make them upgrades of each other. In Civ2, first the square had irrigation, then it had farmland. If the square was pillaged, the farmland HAD to be ripped up first. Farmland couldn't exist without irrigation. That is a much better system than having 3 separate improvements, any of which can be on the square in any ole combination. It is much easier to keep track of things using the upgrade method than the separate improvement method.
Eggman is offline  
Old June 18, 1999, 00:12   #45
wheathin
Prince
 
wheathin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: home
Posts: 601
How about player-specific railroads? Each player builds their own railroads, and they would be color-coded to the civ. There can only be one player's RR in any square, although occupying an enemy square would not cause the destruction of their RR - you'd have to pillage. Also, building your own RR would automatically destroy the existing RR, maybe with a bonus for your won construction as you use the existing rails and trackbeds.

At the least, it would be like conquering civs that don't have RR tech at all. Now, there just has to be some reason why you can't lay 2000 miles of RR in one turn and blitz an opponent...

wheathin
wheathin is offline  
Old June 18, 1999, 00:15   #46
EnochF
Prince
 
EnochF's Avatar
 
Local Time: 00:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 610
Player-specific railroads shouldn't be that difficult to implement. After all, the game already includes messages such as "Do you really wish to destroy your own improvement?"
EnochF is offline  
Old June 18, 1999, 00:21   #47
Harel
Prince
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Ramat Hasharon, Israel
Posts: 326
Here are my ideas: haven't read any thing yet, so sorrt if I double post something

* Bigger maps, 1000x1000 are a must.

* A mine should only get a bonus from the road if it connect to the origin town.

* Near-by tiles effect one another.
Mines cause negative impact of near-by farms ( more metal in the land ) but gives a small bonus to near-by mines. Same thing will farms ( if all the near-by area is becoming fertile, that will also effect the specific tile )

* You should have the following food-production tile improvments:
1. Irrigation ( +1 for the rest, +2 for deserts )
2. Fields ( +2 for plains, +1 for the rest )
3. Farms ( over fields, +1 food )
4. Manuring ( 1 turn, +25% food )
5. Industrial farm ( over farms, +1 food )

* You should have following movement tile improvments:
1. Path ( Basic tech, 1 turn, 1/2 movement )
2. Road ( Roman roads, like civ )
3. Railroad ( like civ, only 1/4 movement )
4. Monorail ( super-conductors techm 1/5 movement )
You shouldn't have unlimited movement.

* You can only put roads over mountians ( railroad/monorail ) with the tech explosive.

* You can only put any roads over rivers with bridges tech.

* Have deep-core mines, which generate much more. Refitment or replacement of old mines?

* Add lush land, a rich form of plains. found in: around volancos, and like in the nile delta.

* Instead that the city will be a one-box unit, have city tiles. The tech will decide how many every tile can house.
Using civ pop numbers:
Huts - 2 pop per tile.
Tit houses - Old Egypy, 3 pop per tile.
Masonary houses - Minoun? era, 4 pop per tile.
Concerte houses - Roman vila, 5 pop per tile.
Urban zone - 19th housing, 8 pop per tile.
SkyScrapers - 10 pop per tile.
Argocologies - 15 pop per tile.

* Cities that will merge ( atleast two squares are one-by-one, and the various cities are atleast 4 squares apart ), the two cities will form a metropolitan, when:
The biggest city will the be the name of the metro, which will be written in big letters in the center, and the two cities will be written in smaller letters, like in SimCity. The metro will include any new cities that will also merge.

* Have support cost of tiles, when good roads cost the most. That way, people won't over-flood the area with roads/railroads.

* RailRoad shouldn't give a bonus to farming. Can anyone explain for me the reason they did it in the first place?

* Artilery and missiles can attack tiles and destroy them from afar. Not only military discarding units.

* When an engineer "strip" down an enemy farm or mine, you get a small token from it.

* Walls shoule be tiles, which can surround a city ( blocking expansion ) or in far-out areas ( the big wall, or England roman empire wall ).

That's my list for now.
Harel is offline  
Old June 18, 1999, 00:21   #48
wheathin
Prince
 
wheathin's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: home
Posts: 601
Another idea (this thread should have been around a while ago )

NUKE IT!

When a city gets nuked, it should not only have all the surrounding squares in the city radius polluted (all 20, not just the close 8), it should lose all TIs on the surrounding 8 squares. WHAM... Even though in reality the surrounding farms and such would be only minimally affected by fallout, they would have ZERO ability to tranport their food to the city, a process the game does automatically.

wheathin
wheathin is offline  
Old June 18, 1999, 00:31   #49
Kris Huysmans
Warlord
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Belgium
Posts: 101
idea:
Building a railroad can't be faster then 2 turns and the artilery in a enemy city will shoots every engenier deadth that is in a radius of 2. But one artilery can only shoots one time.
Kris Huysmans is offline  
Old June 22, 1999, 19:42   #50
DaBods
Settler
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Emmaus,Pa U.S.A.
Posts: 16
There should be many types of roads, because roads got better as time went on. roads should give extra trade, because they encourage trade in real life. one of the main reasons of the lack of progress in the middle ages was because people never moved and the average person died w\in 8 miles of where they were born. there should be some limitations on the number of roads in a city radius that produce trade. maybe only roads going to another city produce extra trade. rr's should NOT have unlimited movement because killing an empire in one turn was way to easy in civ2. it should be like 1/5 or 1/6 movement. also movement should be cut down in place where you haven't been in a while or can't see from a city radii or unit.
DaBods is offline  
Old June 22, 1999, 19:44   #51
DaBods
Settler
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Emmaus,Pa U.S.A.
Posts: 16
There should be many types of roads, because roads got better as time went on. roads should give extra trade, because they encourage trade in real life. one of the main reasons of the lack of progress in the middle ages was because people never moved and the average person died w\in 8 miles of where they were born. there should be some limitations on the number of roads in a city radius that produce trade. maybe only roads going to another city produce extra trade. rr's should NOT have unlimited movement because killing an empire in one turn was way to easy in civ2. it should be like 1/5 or 1/6 movement. also movement should be cut down in place where you haven't been in a while or can't see from a city radii or unit.
DaBods is offline  
Old June 29, 1999, 22:36   #52
Diodorus Sicilus
Warlord
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Steilacoom, WA, USA
Posts: 189
Okay, here's me list of possible improvements to a tile or hex. The exact Improvment per tile depends not only on the advances and technology available, but also on the type of terrain in the tile.
Idented Improvements are Progressive: they add to or supplant the original (non-indented) Improvement:

Land Improvements

Roads
Permanent Roads
Railroads
MagLev Line
The initial roads merely allow City Radius to be extended slightly. Permanent Roads are Roman-type hard surface roads: faster movement but require maintenance. Railroads and MagLevs extend city radius to Regional distances and allow much faster transportation - they also allow Bulk Goods to be moved, like Food
Farms
Factory Farms
There should also be numerous Incremental Improvements to Farms: Moldboard Plows, Improved Grains, Crop Rotation, Artificial Fertilizers, etc. in the Advances
Irrigation
Canals
Canals allow you to extend irrigation away from the sea/river tiles, and also provide transportation: slow as roads, but you can move Bulk Goods like Food
Terraces
Irrigation turns desert/plains into grassland-equivalent tiles for farming. Terracing turns Hills into grassland-equivalent tiles for farming when combined with Irrigation
Mines
Deep Mines
Open-Pit Mines
Deep Mines require Steam/Powered Pumps. (Modern) Open Pit Mines require major machinery, are a 20th century development.
Fortifications
Fortresses
Fortresses are the detached 19th century concrete and steel structures, Fortifications date back to Oppidum hill-forts of wood, stoe, and turf.
Airfield

Sea Improvements

Fishing Boats
Fishing Trawlers
Factory Ships
These are Mobile Improvements: they can be moved to where the fish are, and become useless if there are no fish within their range - which increases with each successive Improvement.
Fish Farm
Aquaculture Station
These are Stationary Fish (food) sources, usually in coastal/offshore tiles
Offshore Platform
(Resource) source from the sea: currently only Oil, but they could also extract other Minerals and reseources
Mine Belt
Mine Array
SONAR Array
MAD Array
Defense Improvements for the sea tile: Mines to attack ships, SONAR and MAD (Magnetic Anomaly Detector) to find Submarines

I'd also like to put in a plug for more visible Improvements on the map: Farms and industrial farmland, detailed roads (stone versus dirt surfaces) irrigation ditches, canals with boats, fishing trawlers off the coast, offshore platforms that really appear offshore, etc. There's a whole range of Eye Candy that has barely been scratched in the games so far - and after pillaging, the effect of Ruined Improvements showing on the landscape would be just as impressive!

Certain Improvements should also be attackable with Barrage or Bombardment factors from the sea or air: Railroads, Canals and roads can be bombed, Offshore Platforms destroyed by air or sea attack - or by Mother Nature, for that matter (we need Natural Disasters in the game anyway, make them affect the Tile Improvements, too - flooding the farmland along the river, for instance, complete with graphics).
Other Improvements cannot be so attacked: bombing farmland is pretty much worthless - it has to be pillaged by a Ground Unit (Army) taking its time to carry off or burn down everything - same with mines, Unimproved Roads, or Irrigation.
Diodorus Sicilus is offline  
Old June 30, 1999, 03:31   #53
Theben
Deity
 
Theben's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Posts: 15,132
Color-coded rails: To take ecce homo's idea (6-17) one step further, on the turn that you remove control from the enemy the RR/maglev has no color- no one owns it. At the beginning of next turn if your unit is still there (hasn't been destroyed) you gain possesion of the RR. If you're destroyed it remains unowned until someone can take it, or until peace breaks out, it goes to the person whose territory it's in.

Da Sicilian,
It seems that many of those TI could be advanced techs, granting small % bonuses to overall food/shield/trade production. This can be accomplished by combining the various percentages and THEN figuring out how much production the city gets. I'd make an exception for roads because the game is unit-intensive (and I agree rr/maglev should not give unlimited movement).

The fishing boats, etc. sound like they should be units, akin to supply crawlers in SMAC.

"Irrigation turns desert/plains into grassland-equivalent tiles for farming."
Are you saying that irrigation will only allow water to be moved, while farming produces the extra food? If that's the case there should be a limit to how far you can extend irrigation, with advanced tech extending that limit. Grassland should always be able to be irrigated, but plains/desert shouldn't. You may also wind up losing part of your river if you divert too much water (random event). Lastly terraforming desert/plains to grassland should require maintenance, and if it's not paid then at some future point it will revert to normal.

I'm glad you see that not every tile should be subject to aerial/ocean bombardment, although I'd go farther than you did. The German rail system in WWII wasn't affected by allied bombing that much, despite the allies best efforts. Give the bombers a very low chance of success, made greater with tech (specifically laser-targeting, maybe future techs).


<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Theben (edited June 30, 1999).]</font>
Theben is offline  
Old June 30, 1999, 04:53   #54
mzilikazi
Warlord
 
Local Time: 08:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: London
Posts: 117
A new idea - apologies if it's already been covered...
In the Modern Age, civilisations discovered the advance of Conservation. Areas of virgin territory within their borders were set aside in perpetuity as National Parks, (from Snowdonia to the Serengeti) boosting both the happiness of environmentally conscious populations, and bringing in tourism-related income. In game terms, tiles (any terrainj type)within a Civ's borders may, as long as they have never had any improvement of any kind built on them, may be designated as National Park land (perhaps gaining an attractive Lion or Redwood icon!). This land must then remain untouched - no units of any Civ, friendly or otherwise, may then pass through the National Park, not may any roads or other improvements be built on the tile, or the Park designation is lost. Harsh rules, but the benefits to the nearest city of having National Park land nearby should be large: in terms of both gold and happiness. Equally, the consequences of desecrating National Park land, either by passing friendly units through it or building on it would be severe - civil unrest and demonstrations as the population objects to the destruction of natural beauty. If a Park is destroyed by enemy units passing through, I suggest that the home city or capital of the offending unit suffer from unrest, as the population looks beyond the present hostilities and sees the destruction of something more important.

Any thoughts?
mzilikazi is offline  
Old June 30, 1999, 11:13   #55
Theben
Deity
 
Theben's Avatar
 
Local Time: 04:21
Local Date: October 31, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Posts: 15,132
Kind of harsh, considering how most people react to environmental destruction these days (that's terrible! what's on the other channel?). And you'd need roads into the land in order to generate any bonus in revenue, or else how will people get there?
Theben is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:21.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team