PLAYER INTERFACE (ver 2.0) Hosted by Frank Moore

Frank Moore · June 17, 1999, 07:25

Continuing the discussion....

First here is a summary of what has happened to this point.

<font size=5> Summary list for player interface suggestions:</font>

These are not presented in any particular order. The description that follows is a summary written by myself, if I didn’t get something right, either post back or e-mail me. The usernames in parentheses following the description are the people who have contributed to the topic. Once again, if I have forgotten someone post or e-mail me.

1. USE THE WINDOWS ENVIRONMENT. It would be nice to be able to make multiple windows to view troublespots (similar to Civnet). It is easier to access other programs (e.g. CD Player) w/out having to <alt><tab>. Actually this is a topic with many opinions, this will require a vote. (Shining1, Ecco Homo, Ralph, Freddz, Frank Moore)

2. A WAY TO ATTACH NOTES TO A UNIT TO BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THE UNIT AND TO OUTLINE A SHORT TERM PLAN FOR THE UNIT (e.g. move to cityX, make new home city, move to cityY to join assault force.) (the Octopus)

3. A NOTEPAD TOOL THAT THE PLAYER COULD USE TO MAKE NOTES TO HIMSELF DURING A TURN (e.g. barbarians near cityX – wipe them out, or even general things like, check all cities for unhappiness.) This notepad would then popup at the end of turn to allow the player to take action. The notepad should have the option of clearing after every turn. Each city should have a notepad, certain occurences should be automatically recorded (e.g. when improvements are built, civil disorder, etc.) and the player would also be able to add his/her notes to the notepad. (the Octopus, tfs99, SnowFire, jof)

4. THE PLAYER SHOULD BE ABLE TO VIEW THE STATS ON ANY SQUARE BY JUST MOVING THE MOUSE OVER A PARTICULAR SQUARE, instead of having to “move the cursor to this square”. (Shining1)

5. A WAY TO STANDARDIZE THE KEYS USED IN PLAY (i.e. in civ2 <h> is go to home city, in SMAC it is hold.) Maybe a better way to do this is to make the entire keyboard interface configurable, such as a shooter game. (Fugi the Great, tfs99, Blade Runner, Frank Moore)

6. THERE SHOULD BE A WAY TO GROUP UNITS TOGETHER SO THAT THEY ACT AS ONE UNIT (e.g. group 2 rover, one probe team, and three infantry units together. All units would move as one unit, with the slowest unit dictating movement rate. If no movement is required for the group only one spacebar would be required to bypass the group’s turn. (Shining1, Frank Moore)

7. A WAY TO CUSTOMIZE THE RIGHT-CLICK MENUS. It would be nice if the menus could be changed on the fly (e.g. early in the game the right click for former would include “plant forest”, while later in the game the “build magtube” order would be added. The menus should also be unit dependent, so that the menu for formers would be different from that of a combat unit. (tfs99, Frank Moore)

8. INCORPORATE THE “PUBLIC WORKS” IDEA FROM CTP INTO THE SETTLER CONCEPT. From the city screen the player should be able to dictate which squares to be improved, what to improve, and what order to improve them in. any settlers that are assigned to this city would then follow the orders. (Cybershy)

9. WHEN RESTARTING A GAME, A POPUP TO SUMMARIZE THE CURRENT GAME AND RECENT DEVELOPMENTS. For example, you are currently working on two wonders, the Spanish declared war 5 turns ago, and you have just discovered gunpowder. (the Octopus)

10. HAVE THE GAME CHECK TO SEE IF A FULL INSTALL HAS BEEN DONE. This would eliminate the popup dialog box. A small issue, but one that been complained about more than once. (tfs99)

11. AN IMPROVED DEMOGRAPHICS DISPLAY. What I think that we really want here are as many options, graphs, lists as possible. Definitely bring back top 5 cities, I really enjoyed trying to get all 5. (Ralph, Frank Moore)

12. FIX THE PROBLEMS WITH THE REPLAY THAT EXIST IN SMAC. Namely the Spartans being the same color as the ocean, and the final land geography being displayed from the beginning instead of showing the terraforming as it progresses. (Ecco Homo, Frank Moore)

13. THERE SHOULD BE BUTTONS AVAILABLE FOR MAXIMIZING FOOD, RESOURCE AND TRADE. This is really an issue for the city interface topic, but I’ll present it here also. (Freddz)

14. USE THE CTP TYPE OF UNIT INTERFACE. I still have not played CTP yet, but it seems to me that players either like or absolutely can’t stand this interface, this will need a vote. (Bell, Onmoy, Depp)

15. DESIGN WORKSHOP IMPROVEMENTS. The DW should be able to display many more units at one time. The whole DW should use the entire screen, not just a popup. This would allow the player to see many more units at one time. FILTERING. It would be nice to be able to filter what units are shown, for example, all air units, all naval units, etc. (Frank Moore)

16. IT WOULD BE NICE TO BE ABLE TO PRINT OUT MAPS OF THE WORLD DURING A GAME. Self-explanatory. (Ecco Homo)

17. A WAY TO CUSTOMIZE WHAT “GOODIE HUTS” CAN YIELD. For example a player should be able to toggle whether a goodie hut can yield an advanced tribe. (Bird)

18. A PEOPLE COUNTER THAT CAN COUNT HIGHER THAN 320 MILLION. I assume this is a CTP drawback. (Bird)

19. A REAL TIME CLOCK. Possibly with an alarm snooze feature. (Frank Moore)

20. INCORPORATE A SPREADSHEET INTO THE GAME. This would show all cities, what improvements the city has already built, etc. (don Don)

21. THERE SHOULD BE A WAY IN VIEW 2 OR MORE CITIES AT ONE TIME. This would be especially useful in managing resources with overlapping cities. (don Don)

22. IN GENERAL KEEP THE SMAC INTERFACE. I think that this is a pretty good idea, certain things will need changed or added. (meowser, JT)

23. SIMPLIFY THE INTERFACE TO CUT DOWN ON THE NUMBER OF MOUSE CLICKS. I agree that this should be a major goal. (Atahualpa)

24. MORE DETAIL SHOULD BE PROVIDED ON THE SCIENCE (AND OTHER) REPORTS. For example, the report should show how many beakers have accumulated, how many are needed for the next tech, and this should dynamically update to reflect changes in the science rate. Also extra beakers (and shields) should not be wasted, but added to the next discovery (improvement) or changed to currency. (Bird)

25. IN GENERAL ALL PARAMETERS (FOOD SHIELDS, BEAKERS, ETC.) SHOULD HAVE A NUMBER REPRESENTATION, NOT ONLY A GRAPHIC ONE. I believe that this has been added to SMAC. (Frank Moore)

22. IN GENERAL KEEP THE CIV2 INTERFACE. I think that this relates to number 22 above. I think that SMAC and Civ2 are pretty similar, maybe we should try to identify particular items on each game that we either love or hate. (Kaak)

NotLikeTea · June 17, 1999, 07:41

I guess this would be the place to put a demographics realted idea.

Remember those "If the world were a village" thingies we've all seen in high school? "200 people would be Chinese, 5 people would control 90% of the wealth" etc.

This would be a very nice way to look at demographics. I imagine some things (wealth, population" should be pretty easy to calculate.

Ona nother demographics note, it would be nice to know what they mean. Millitary Service? Did anyone ever figure that out? I was always in first place for all categories, but in last for millitary service.. hrm...

yin26 · June 17, 1999, 21:30

-=*MOVING THREAD UP*=-

Frank Moore · June 24, 1999, 06:36

<<<*** BUMP ***>>>

Ecce Homo · June 25, 1999, 20:29

Will you post this summary in the Firaxis forum?

Frank Moore · June 28, 1999, 06:55

Yes, I will be posting this summary at the firaxis site also. It is my intent to duplicate my efforts here at Firaxis and vice versa. Work has been a real ***** lately so I'm a little behind, give me a day or two.

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Frank Moore - Civ3 Player Interface Thread Master

Jimmy · June 29, 1999, 20:51

In SMAC, the current city production is displayed under the city on the main map is very nice. You can see what your cities are making without going into the city screens.
I would also like to see how many food, production shields, and gold a city is producing from the main map. Each city on the main map could have a little food symbol, shield, gold coin above the city to indicate if that city is producing those things. That way, a player could see directly if there is a production shortage in a city.

Theben · June 30, 1999, 02:10

I support keeping the civ2 interface with some SMAC qualities-current production under the city for one. But SMAC's screen feels cluttered to me. I like that in civ2 the screen is wide open and all the relevant information is available in the buttons at the top of the screen.

Jimmy,
I think an even simpler solution would be to have various colors for the city name. All cities would have their nation's colors when things are normal, but if something's wrong it changes to another specific color based on what the problem is. Also if the city is receiving extra bonuses (we love the...days, or extra food/production/trade for 10 turns like SMAC) this would work.

July 6, 1999, 08:08

dunno if this idea has been said but shouldnt the interface change its look through the stages of technology?

Coz um...that would help the feel of advancing...interaction with the technology when controlling the civilization.

yeah baby!!

Aco · July 8, 1999, 02:14

Hey, I just read the first post over here and I was very much amused to see point 18.

I haven't played CTF enough to experience it myself, but is the population limit STILL 320 million (like in Civ2)??
Hmmm... if there's anything Firaxis MUST alter for Civ3 then it's this counter. I want to have an empire with 320 BILLION people (offcourse depending on the available space in the world)... and c'mon, just take a 'LONG' variable instead of an 'INTEGER'..
that shouldn't be so hard now?

Bye Aco

Frank Moore · July 16, 1999, 07:10

***BUMP***

and

I'll be on vacation until July 26th, so I won't be able to check in.

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Frank Moore - Civ3 Player Interface Thread Master
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Frank Moore (edited July 16, 1999).]</font>

July 18, 1999, 09:12

geez, the suggestions have really dropped lately... but I was saying before how the interface should change as you advance through time.

I just thought that maybe the map of what you know shouldnt be visable untill you have mapmaking, but the map will be very rough looking. But once your into the future, with more technology and satelites in space, maybe we could have a neat little button pops up somewhere on the "main panel" of a small satelite or something, and when you click on it a map of the world opens up.

Something cool, to keep the mind active.

Ecce Homo · July 18, 1999, 09:22

Yes, Icedan.

Civ 3 should have the fog of war from CtP. Before you have Map Making, everything you cannot see should be dark. In the future you could get up-to-date information about the whole world.

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The best ideas are those that can be improved.
Ecce Homo

Theben · August 10, 1999, 01:32

*BUMP*

geofelt · August 14, 1999, 00:28

I would like to see a game option which selects either a realistic presentation of units and terrain, or a "gameplayers" version which would be very clear and easy to identify. No graphics like TOT!
If there is a "we love the leader" process, I would like to see an indicator on the city screen. With higher populations, you have to count the happy/content icons which is difficult.

mindlace · August 14, 1999, 10:29

If you look at the city report screen in SMAC (F4, i think) all your cities with 'we love the leader' (popboom) have a (!) next to them.

Theben · August 15, 1999, 00:15

Check out my June 30th suggestion. This would allow players to see the city's condition from the main map.

meriadoc · December 9, 1999, 01:29

With the exception of the City Window missing from Civ CTP, I have very little interface complaints. Here are two very useful ideas for making micromanagement easier, especially for people with short memories.

Bookmark:
A useful tool for those with short memories (me). You place bookmarks on the map in places you want to go back to later, even labelling the bookmark if you want. These bookmarks then can be controlled from both a "next bookmark" button or a window displaying a list of all of the bookmarks and their map locations (i.e. section A-7). The window would also display a small world map, divided into sections, with dots for each bookmark.

Notepad:
Just a simple text editor like the Windows notepad allowing you to electronically scribble a quick note such as "bomb England" that you want to remember but know you won't.

Lord Maxwell · December 14, 1999, 14:32

Ok, this has been a major issue with me for a while.

Please stop separating the build que from the current object built. Having to set first the current object, then click ok, and then set the que and then click another ok is a bugger. It's just as simple and for more elegant and easy to use a straight que all the way. (I have up to 100 cities in the end game in smac, hurts fiddling with all those ques.

The ctp idea of being able to save a que is great.

also add terraform ques for builders. You could say "irrigate this square, then that square, then build these roads" and the comp should NOT assign multiple units to the same task. (Automated fungus removal in smac is an example of how NOT to do it. Seeing 6 formers doing the same square is just plain silly.)

The Joker · December 15, 1999, 08:40

I really agree with that last comment. I have never realized why such brilliant people as the Firaxians could have made such a flaw. It isn't a big thing, just another little annoying feature. Generally I think CTP's queue had some advantages, like the Save queue option. But this should be done from the city window, not from that odd city list I don't think anybody ever used for much.

I also think that for the Unit Workshop either copy that of the game "Warzone 2100" or have none. SMAC's was just an annoying waste of time.

Rahvin · December 27, 2000, 16:29

I think the city-view should be given more detail, and the finished buildings could be shown during hop to city. this option could be set on disable for players with lots of cities, but it would give the game back some of its beauty.

Another thing i think is important is the ability to customize the interface and autmation level.
this includes build and infrastructure queues.
the autosettler behaviour should be costimizable, like:
road first, than if low food irrigation or if not railroad.
especially railroad construction in between of cities should be automized, because all of a sudden you send half your turn connecting your cities with railroad tracks...

SlowThinker · January 1, 2001, 17:09

Number of turns needed to finish irrigation (mining, fortress...) should be shown (regardless irrigation started or didn't start yet).
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 01, 2001).]</font>

SlowThinker · January 1, 2001, 20:10

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Ecce Homo on 07-18-1999 09:22 AM</font>
Civ 3 should have the fog of war from CtP. Before you have Map Making, everything you cannot see should be dark.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>Civ2 has fog of war yet! Squares aren't greyed, but you don't know any changes until you move a unit near to square you are interested on.

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 01, 2001).]</font>

SlowThinker · January 1, 2001, 20:44

this is related to "item 2" and "item 3"
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Each city should have a notepad, certain occurences should be automatically recorded (e.g. when improvements are built, civil disorder, etc.) and the player would also be able to add his/her notes to the notepad.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>In this post, my intention is to manage my future plans when playing Civilization only. I don't suppose automated records of the past.
<hr>
Motives for my suggestions:
<table COLS=1 WIDTH="100%" ><tr><td ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH="5%"></td><td><FONT SIZE="2" FACE="Verdana">I decided to build a settler at Lyon: I plan that he will go to Paris when built, Paris will be set as his supporting city, then he will move to hill near Paris to mine it, then he will buid a city at specifyied square. Later in the game, I want to be allowed to get a view with all settler, city, hill and a square for new city highlighted and I want to be reminded to my plan.
I plan to lower food production when Delhi reaches size 5.
I plan to interrupt irrigating 900BC since I want to use accumulated work of a settler for quick erection of a fortress.
I plan to swith to explorer production in Berlin when seafaring will be discovered.
I want to be able to inspect all my settlers (diplomats...) together (those in production included ). </td></tr></table>AND: I want to be alerted when theses events occur.
<hr>
This is my conception:
1. Bookmark and notepad (memo field) are combined into one thing: Every bookmark has his own notepad (memo). Any item (there are 4 types of items: unit, city, square, all civilization) has one bookmark/memo (it may be empty). Memo collects my future aims (plans) related to the item.
2. The aim is a combination of an event (year 900BC occured; seafaring was discovered; city reached size 5 (size 5 will be reached in n turns respectively); production finished (will be finished in n turns); irrigation finished(will be finished ...)) and action (set tax rate; irrigate square, set home city; lower production, go to...).
3. Every bookmark can be in one of following status of view: hidden, shown, shown and flashing, shown with a memo opened.
4. Moving items (units) represent a little bit of complication: Aims recorded in their memos must be copied into memos of related squares and cities. There must be available a special view where all bookmarks in the relation (bookmark of the unit and bookmarks of related squares/cities) are activated together.
5. Two kinds of implementation are possible. For simple implementation, all aims are inserted manually. For extended implementation, the system must be able to classify all aims and to monitor them. Extended implementation has two advantages:
a) Point 4 may be solved automatically
b) System knows that event occured (for simple implementation, system can monitor game years only)
5. There may be two kind of answer of a system to an event: Warning (bookmark flashing...), or automated action or both (warning with an offer of automated answer).
6. There are filters of view implemented. It is possible to turn on/off all units or all settlers (all catapults, all attack units, all sea units). It is possible to turn on just production (shields needed to finish production, food production...) in cities (I mean the production status is shown at the square of the city. It is better than F1-key: F1 doesn't give you placement of the production directly, it is harder for your brain). It is possible to choose the kind of view (look point 2 supra) of bookmarks of showed units, of bookmarks of showed units + cities, of bookmarks of all squares...
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 01, 2001).]</font>

Aredhran · January 3, 2001, 01:20

BUILD QUEUES

I like the idea of having build queues, which can reduce micromanagement. However, the way they were implemented in SMAC was too limiting, and I ended up (almost) not using them.

What I have in mind (improvements from SMAC's queue model):
- The first item in the Q is the one being produced (to avoid the problem in SMAC where one is often switching back and forth between current production and queued items)
- buttons to move items up/down the Q
- load/save Q templates
- treat all items (buildings, units, wonders) in the same way (ie. when the last one is produced, switch to stockpile energy, also for units)

Lord Maxwell · January 5, 2001, 07:07

I really, really, really like how you can customise a random world in FreeCiv. You can say that there should be half as many big continents as players total, and that each human should share his continent with 1 and only 1 ai fraction, and that there should be half again as many smaller islands (3-4 cities?) as big continents.

The way I would like this to work:

Deciding how many major landbodies there should be. This could either be a fixed number or a number based on num players. (Both options should exist!)

Deciding on how many civs share each major body, and if there should be empty major bodies to encourage early exploration. Also stating whether or not human controlled civs get to share starting continent.

Decision on the amount of smaller islands, and the size variation of those.

You might want to have two different mp setup pages, one basic and one advanced. The basic can look like SMAC for all I care, as long as there is an advanced one that is atleast as refined as FreeCivs setup. In multiplayer controlling the world parameters is essential to a good and fair game. We often have to restart smac mp games, as 2 players end up landing together on a small continent, when a more warlike player ends up the only human on a big continent with potential slaves all around...