Someone finally did it....

May 15, 2001, 21:53

Yes, it has finally occured. Go read it yourself. http://forums.civfanatics.com/Forum3/HTML/000271.html

Someone tried to frame me for cheating, not very well. What's funny is it was a honorable cifanatic who did the doctoring. 2 civfanatics to be exact. So go on over and tell your fellow civers how honorable and what a great place civfanatics is. So nice to play with honest players.

GNGSpam · May 15, 2001, 23:20

Why would anyone cheat at Civ2? Winning is so completely inconsquential

SunTzu · May 15, 2001, 23:42

And which honorable civfanatic doctored your cheating?

May 16, 2001, 00:06

TheShrew and Tact. You know, the two you openly supported! HAHHAHAA!! How amusing. I think the only moderator on there with any sense is Smash, I'm not sure why he wastes his time on civfanatics. From what I've seen he could be a pretty skill player, hardly fitting for him to be on a beginner's site.

Hydey · May 16, 2001, 01:26

I don't understand what anyone has to gain by framing another person as a cheat.

Sean has been caught and named before so it could not be a warning as everyone already knows to watch him closely.
There is more to this than meets the eye, perhaps in time all will be revealed until then I will remain

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Time share holidays are cool

Hydey will be away again soon

May 16, 2001, 01:43

Hands up those who think Eyes is a few soldiers short of a platoon?

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Founder, Dear Leader and Great Helmsman of PROT -the People's Republic Off Topic www.delphi.com/prot1/

If you're happy and you know it, spam a thread.

Smash · May 16, 2001, 02:10

I've seen the saves and if that is cheating then Eyes is the absolute worst cheater around.4 units and 2 techs by 3650bc..big deal..I played it and had 2 techs and 5 units by the same turn.It was a 2x2 and he was on a dinky island with a couple huts.I got an archer and Horseback Riding.
The early save is 3900 with 2 cities built.Looks like he started with 2 settlers.Built on turn 1-moved 2nd settler 2 spaces.3950-he moves 2nd settler 1 square-revealing a whale and builds.

I don't see anything unusual at all.

I'm not being paid or endorsed in any way

Rasputin · May 16, 2001, 02:19

obviously people never forget that he once did cheat and now are always out to get him, leave it alone , he said he doesnt do it anymore, so stop pestering poor sean ..

Rasputin · May 16, 2001, 02:25

and eyes, as you are probalb ywell aware. using the code maker you canchange anything with a number , so size of city is easy too.....

May 16, 2001, 02:39

Could someone go into detail on cheating? Is it like saving a game, open cheat mode look around and continue the saved mode?

McM

Rasputin · May 16, 2001, 06:15

oh much more than that,
there are hex programs that allow you to change the hex code of the game to add gold, build bigger citys etc...

for loohole exploitation see mings list at civ 3 forum

drake · May 16, 2001, 08:52

Eyes might be socially incompetent and fornicate with small animals, but I'm quite sure he doesnt cheat. He has that boring formula of his down pat.

May 16, 2001, 14:32

Smash youd idn't look at the saves properly. It shows me having 2 size 1 cities at 2950BC with no units. 3900BC it shows me having 4 units, an archer nearly completed and both my cities are size 2. Trust me, that explanation I gave fits it perfectly and the guy already admitted to editing the saves to make it look like I cheated.

May 16, 2001, 14:44

This is what I wrote on civfanatics, it got closed down for some reason...

Recently today The Shrew and Tact found files of me cheating. ALl this can be found on the other thread. I have evidence though that either the Shrew or Tact, or both of them, doctored the save to make it look like I cheated.
1. How it works

About 4 years ago, when there was only classic civ, a programmer identified the hex code that turned off the cheat flag (the Red message that says "CHEAT MODE"). By using this simple program you can remove the cheat flag thus you are able to cheat without evidence. However, this was designed for .sav files, not .net. To do it in civ MPGE first save a multiplayer game. The format is currently in .net. Next go on the main menu and load the game as a .sav file. Now you can enable the cheat mode. Do all the editing that you want, create units, change gold, change city size, what not. Next, use the program to remove the cheat flag. Whola! You have a doctored game without evidence. Now for the finishing touches. Load the game as a multiplayer file and change the production back to 2x2x, save the game again so it is now in .net. Now you understand how the files came to be that are against me.

2. In game cheating

One of the flaws in the logic of my accusers is that they say I did this IN GAME. That means all cheating went on in the game. Besides being blatantly obvious, which only a complete moron would do, units have appeared out of thin air, city sizes increased in 1 turn and production occured that should not. There is NO WAY to do this kind of cheating in game. You can't hex edit it because you are not changing values. That only works for changing gold or something with a specific value. The only way to do this is to enable the cheat mode. Now you might say I probably enabled the cheat mode in the game. HOwever, to do this I would have to located the hex value that turns it on and off. I am not sure this is even possible, I have never heard of it. A serious flaw in their logic born of ignorance.

3. Evidence of doctoring

No matter what you do, you're going to leave something behind. In this case alot was left behind. Load the files in question as .sav. The first thing you should notice is that it goes straight to the Germans, you don't get a chance to choose your civ. This is because the cheat mode had already once been enabled and when you save it again as .sav the computer automatically sets the civ you are as the default player. The next evidence is the fact that all the units are on the "go" command. THat means that the computer had a chance to move them and the AI took over. Next is the killer. When you start the game as .net (or a multiplayer game), when you first start it comes up saying "The germans of knowledge of warriorcode, horsebackriding, roads, etc." THAT NEVER HAPPENS IN AN MP GAME UNLESS IT'S BEEN TAMPERED WITH IN THIS FASHION!!! Try it yourself and run a few experiemtns and you will see. Next is the fact that they didn't change the movement and production back to 2x2x, instead it's still on 1x1x production!!! Exactly as I explained up there!!!

NOW WHICH ONE OF YOU DID IT? WAS IT BOTH OF YOU OR WAS IT JUST TACT OR WAS IT JUST YOU SHREW?

Rasputin, the way you change city size is not by actually using a city size number. To do it you have to input the amount of grain you gain each turn. Then change that number to say 100 or something, that will make you grow one per turn. However, in order to do that you need about 3 turns so a hex program can locate the changing code. I did all this cheating in just 2 turns according to the saves. It's impossible. You have to have the cheat mode enabled to do it. It's all explained.

May 16, 2001, 18:46

Your point would be better taken if you didn't so completely know the ins and out of cheating, Eyes.

Random thoughts.
I myself purposely have avoided reading about bugs and that,
and I'm sure not going to sit down and do a statistical analysis on every little aspect.
In the long run all the theories on milking a grain extra isn't going to matter much when your troops are unprepared for battle.

I don't:
like duels, they're b.s.
care much for diplo games either, b.s. for the opposite reason.
like excessive use of diplomats, which I think III will fix.
care much for strategic alliance with the masses.
believe most people when they offer peace treaty.

Ming · May 16, 2001, 19:51

Check this out

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum1/HTML/002023.html?0

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Ming
ACS Civ II & OT Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

May 16, 2001, 21:06

"Your point would be better taken if you didn't so completely know the ins and out of cheating, Eyes."

Yes, and you should appreciate that fact Sloww since most of what you know about cheating and bugs comes from me. Who do you think Kwang turned to when he had disputes of cheating? He sent the files to me and asked me to decide whether the guy cheated or not. Bet you didn't know that did you? Who do you think half the gameleaguers went to when they were being accused of cheating? They went straight to me. So in actuality sloww, you should be thanking me.

May 16, 2001, 21:08

One more thing, if I didn't know the ins and outs of cheating, I would not have been able to prove my innocence. This is not the first time something like this has happened. Also, think about how many people I have caught cheating. Think about all this next time you say you don't want to know how to cheat, or that my knowing is bad, knowledge of it is the best defense against it.

May 17, 2001, 01:06

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Ming on 05-16-2001 07:51 PM</font>
Check this out

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum1/HTML/002023.html?0

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Yes. And I responded to that.

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"It's In The Way That You Use It."
Tuatha De Danann Tribe

May 17, 2001, 01:09

All I'm saying is I don't learn the bugs. I don't analyze to th Nth degree.
And I hold my own and have never been accused of cheating.
That's all I'm saying.

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"It's In The Way That You Use It."
Tuatha De Danann Tribe

May 17, 2001, 14:30

Hold your own? Sloww....you had 3 cities against me last game and I didn't even attack you at all. Lets face it, you never get accused of cheating because if you did cheat you'd have to be the worst cheater to ever live.

Deity Dude · May 17, 2001, 16:05

I nominate Eyes for the Miss Congeniality Award.

Any seconds.

GNGSpam · May 17, 2001, 17:35

Why is everyone saying The Shrew is so great because he fessed up? He is still scum for trying to frame someone in the first place. I dont care if he fessed up, I sure as hell wouldnt play him, afterall, who might he try to frame next? And would he fess up if it didnt look like he was going to get caught anyways?

May 17, 2001, 17:56

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by EyesOfNight on 05-17-2001 02:30 PM</font>
Hold your own? Sloww....you had 3 cities against me last game and I didn't even attack you at all. Lets face it, you never get accused of cheating because if you did cheat you'd have to be the worst cheater to ever live.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

You mis-speak, again.

No, I take it back. You lie, again.
You quit when your attacks on my units failed.
You SAID I was beat. You had Hanging Gardens, and you quit.
1750 B.C., losing battles, and you quit.
So you're a liar.
You're the most split personality deviate I know.
Congrats. At least you're truly number 1 in something.

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"It's In The Way That You Use It."
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SlowwHand (edited May 17, 2001).]</font>

May 17, 2001, 19:52

ummmmm....sloww, I quit because you were boring the hell out of me and because others wanted the internet. Sorry, but I'm not going to waste my time on a game where you only have 3 cities and I have about 30. I really see no point in building 60 knights so I can go destroy all 3 cities. What would I gain from beating you? Absolutely nothing. There was nothing on the game to spice it up and therefore it would be a waste of my time to continue it.

May 18, 2001, 06:24

You are so totally self centered. You could have agreed on quiting, or you could have put deeds with your words and crushed Sloww with your army.

If somebody does you wrong, you tear down heaven and hell to get your appology and here youprove you yourself don't have the decency to correctly finish a game.

I don't know you, and I think I'll keep it that way.

McM

CapTVK · May 18, 2001, 07:20

Why is it that every discussion with Eyes of Night seems to end up with him posting large tracts of self serving claptrap?

Rasputin · May 18, 2001, 08:07

because he is the best, and cant be beaten, just ask him ===> FIGJAM !!!!

May 18, 2001, 08:39

At least you're consistent Eyes.
Habitual liar.
Not one battle won by your great Civ, but yes you were winning.
It's called delusions of grandeur, and you and strat are both eaten up with it.

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"It's In The Way That You Use It."
Tuatha De Danann Tribe

Deity Dude · May 19, 2001, 00:16

Eyes: my challenge still stands from the other thread. 50$, me and you, deity level, random map and size, 2x1x or 1x1x. Are you gonna duck me again.