CtP2 Civilizations

October 12, 2000, 00:17

Is there any official list as to what civilizations will be included in the game? If not, is there any speculation running about as to what civilizations will probably be covered? I really hated CtP1 with a passion, and probably the thing that pissed me off most was having to fight civilizations such as the Nircaraguans or Cubans, a people who have done nothing for the world besides exporting narcotics. Lets have some civilizations that reflect historical contributions to the world, not programmers' ethnicities.

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"There is no more illustrious history than the history of the Magyar Nation... The whole civilized world is indebted to Magyarland for its historic deeds."
-Theodore Roosevelt, to the Hungarian Parliament,
April 2, 1910

Bartemans · October 12, 2000, 04:19

Magyarcrusader,

Isn't exporting drugs a proper reason to wipe that civ of the Earth?

Take advantage of!!!

Bartemans
http://home.hccnet.nl/stolte.1

Atahualpa · October 12, 2000, 07:07

MagyarCrusader: So you think not all civs deserve to be crushed/played with?

If you crush Americans or Cubans where is the difference? All civs are the same except for their name! And the photo!

If you would have requested some civs to be included okay. I can understand that. But to request some civs to take out is not okay IMO.

It absolutely DOESNT matter with what names the AI is equipped. Cause the American AI is the same as the Cuban AI. Only the name is different! edit: To correct any misunderstandings (if they come up). Civ Names do matter (for you to choose) but it doesnt matter what names the civ have that I am playing against. For me Cubans are like Nicaraguans/British/French/... . I start diplomatic negotiations with them and see who they react and then maybe they become allies or enemies (or I dont care about them). Okay I am always happy when there are Americans playing against me (to wipe them off the face of the earth

). But never would I dare to think a civ wouldnt deserve it to be in!

ATa

edit: Since MagyarC. appears to be AH, a person I have sympathies for, I have removed the worst insults. Nevertheless I stick with my point.
[This message has been edited by Atahualpa (edited October 12, 2000).]

TheBirdMan · October 12, 2000, 07:58

Ata: You are insulting AH. Taking his trademark from him and giving it to someone else. Shame on you.

About choosing a civ: I normally choose a civ, which has more than just a couple of hundred years on the back. I fell it's odd, starting year 4000BC with a civ, just "invented" in 1920 or so. I like to choose and old civ or a race, which "covers" several nations during time.

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Woodstock was here!

Tilemacho · October 12, 2000, 07:59

Ohhh, look at that history expert....

October 12, 2000, 08:09

please keep any attacks outside this thread if you want to see it continuing to exist...

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Markos, Apolyton Civilization Site

Adm.Naismith · October 12, 2000, 10:29

I already suggested it in a CIV 3 thread, hope it can be interesting here too:

I like historically accuracy, so I understand the feeling of TheBirdMan

quote:

About choosing a civ: I normally choose a civ, which has more than just a couple of hundred years on the back. I fell it's odd, starting year 4000BC with a civ, just "invented" in 1920 or so. I like to choose and old civ or a race, which "covers" several nations during time.

Well, why don't start game with the few early Civ, then let the player to change it "on the fly" when some main event occurs?
A few example:
- The Roman Republic conquer the last city of the German: a pop up appear to suggest the wise leader to change the civilization name (suggesting one, overwritable by player) into the like of Roman germanic Empire, or keep the old.
- The Great English Empire fall over a rebellion that split it in two: let the player chose the name of the part remaining under control (may be you can chose to stay with the old Civ or join the separationists).

So we can start Roman (realistically, in old age) then become Venice Republic, then Italian. Chose any other starting point and old age civilization, you can become any Great or little nation you like, also nation usually not included in CTP / Civ list. Can be a win-win solution?

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

Blade Runner · October 12, 2000, 11:01

MagyarCrusader,

I know you want to get more attention for the Hungarians, but IMHO the best way to do it is to tell how Hungarian culture, science and other things have changed the world we live in. If you simply try to kick other countries out of the game, you will get this kind of justified response from the readers of this site. I am sure Ata, who is our neighbour, an Austrian, will fight for our legtimate request to get the Hungarian civ in the game. So I would like to ask you as a fellow Hungarian not to attack other nations and civilizations please.

Blade

Locutus · October 12, 2000, 15:51

I doubt that MagyarCrusader is AH, he probably has more than 143 posts (unless of course he had a *huge* post count reduction, it's one of his DL's or, to quote the man himself, "the f*ck up fairy visited" him as well

).

Anyway, I think the civs in CtPII will be the same as those in CtPI, but if you don't like that, change it! I mean it only involves editing one or two text-files and you can have/leave out all the civs you want!

Custom civs for everyone

October 12, 2000, 17:38

Uh... I must have missed something...

First off, I just wanted to know what tribes are included. CtP didn't allow you to pick your opponents, so I felt it very unrealisitc and historically innacurate to find the Cubans the strongest empire in the world. I liked civ2 because I could relate it to history. CtP just messed it up. Isn't the theme of "Civilization" supposed to include the greatest civilizations of history? Serious, besides nationalists, hardly anyone would consider Cuba or Nircaragua as one of the greatest countries ever.

Bartemans
haha. It would be funny and prehaps fun just one game, but after that, pathetic.

Atahualpa
To me, crushing america makes a big difference than crushing Cuba. Besides the missile crisis, Cuba has no major role in history. Meanwhile, america has fought in, and won some of the largest wars the world has ever seen. America has practically dominated the world since 1945. Because of this, I'd consider them a great civilization that history 500 years from now will remember and study, therefore a worthy advisary. Other than that, your post confused me.

Adm.Naismith
I like your idea. We should be able to rename our civilization as the game progresses.

Blade Runner
I'd be happy if Hungary was in the game, but I wouldn't expect it, demand it, or be disapointed if it wasn't. My signature is just a matter of national pride, it really has nothing to do with this thread.

Locutus
I'm not really an expert at programing here, I just want a game I can enjoy. If this version of CtP allows me to choose my oponents, then I don't care if Cuba is in there or not. Once again, I just wanted to know what civilizations are included.

Anyway, I really doubt that I'll buy this game in the first place, since CtP was as terrible as it was. I'm just interested in what civilizations there are.

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"There is no more illustrious history than the history of the Magyar Nation... The whole civilized world is indebted to Magyarland for its historic deeds."
-Theodore Roosevelt, to the Hungarian Parliament,
April 2, 1910
[This message has been edited by MagyarCrusader (edited October 12, 2000).]

Nikolai · October 13, 2000, 00:14

quote:

Originally posted by Adm.Naismith on 10-12-2000 10:29 AM
I already suggested it in a CIV 3 thread, hope it can be interesting here too:

So we can start Roman (realistically, in old age) then become Venice Republic, then Italian. Chose any other starting point and old age civilization, you can become any Great or little nation you like, also nation usually not included in CTP / Civ list. Can be a win-win solution?

I really like this man!!! (and of course his suggestion :-D

[This message has been edited by Nikolai (edited October 12, 2000).]

Atahualpa · October 13, 2000, 00:19

MagyarCrusader is Alexander's Horse???
Oh my god!

I really really hate that name change feature!
Sorry AH!
Nevertheless I still stick to my point: All civs deserve to appear in a civ game!

Nevertheless, if you want Hungarian in I am all for it! If it would be somehow doable, include ALL civs ever existed!

aTa

Stratesford · October 13, 2000, 02:34

The cubans are important man, they are the only country in the western hemesphere that dosen't fallow the u.s. I consider that if they can oppose a super power then they must be very F@#$*& rad!!

TheBirdMan · October 13, 2000, 04:37

Ata: Sorry to confuse you (though it's better to confuse than to be confused)

What I meant was, that NORMALLY "The Most Useless Treads" are created by AH. And now you would give that honor to MagyarCrusader.

That would be unfair to AH.

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Woodstock was here!

Locutus · October 13, 2000, 06:16

quote:

Originally posted by MagyarCrusader on 10-12-2000 05:38 PM
CtP didn't allow you to pick your opponents, [...]

Now that's not true, if you start a Hotseat game (with only one human player) you can choose your opponents (you need patch 1.2 for Hotseat). Granted, the UI isn't exaclty perfect, but it works. I presume CtPII will have Hotseat as well, so I think it will work there too.

samurai · October 13, 2000, 10:19

MagyarCrusader

If you could choose.What would be the name of the great leader of Hungary?

Atahualpa · October 13, 2000, 10:23

argl

Atahualpa · October 13, 2000, 10:27

I really cant understand people caring about what non-historically important civs are included! Care about your own stuff!

You are so stupid & arrogant when you say: No! I dont want to play against/with Cubans! They havent deserved it!

ITs really the most unimportant thing against who I play because no civ has special bonuses or traits or something like that! In AOE2 it matters what Civ I play and what civs I play against! In Smac it matters too! But in CtP it doesnt!

Thats like whining: "Mom! Barry has a green ball! I dont want to throw my red ball next to his green one!"

Grow up!

ATa

samurai · October 13, 2000, 10:58

Ata

If you play with a lot of Islands, don`t you
rather play Indonesia,Cuba,England,Australia,Trinidad Tobago, and that kind of civs just trying to live yourself into the game?

October 13, 2000, 17:52

Is it safe to assume that this point that nobody really knows (or cares) what civilizations are included? Isn't there a preview site somewhere I can find information? I really don't like being called names and cursed at because I'm trying to find out some information. I stated a reason that had a big impact on me not liking Ctp, and it matters to me because of my $$$$. I have to pick and choose which games are worthwile.

Stratesford
By your logic, we should include the Chechens because they stood up to Russia. Or how about the Palestinians because they stand up to Israel? Sure they don't have a country but oh well!

I'm just saying I want civilizations with great historical contributions. Aztecs, Incas or Mayans would be good choices for South America because they built up great cultural empires. Cuba and Nircaragua have not, so it ruins the whole historic atmosphere for me. And this matter sbecause I enjoy history, therefore want it to be at least somewhat historical. If not, the game will not interest me and therefore I shall save my money for something else.

TheBirdMan
This isn't a useless thread. I didn't want a flame war or anything. This thread is about what civilizations are going to be in CtP. I'm sorry people took a minor point I made, blew it out of proportion and changed the topic of the thread. And what is AH?

Locutus
I never downloaded the patches. I played about half of one game and that was enough for me.

samurai
I couldn't choose just 1 leader for Hungary. It'd choose between Attila, Arpad, Stephen, Kossuth, Corvinus, or Horthy. If you are trying to bring up the point that I want Hungary in the game, drop it. I love the country and all but according to most historians it isn't consider a great historical civilization that would rank among the Romans, Egyptians Greeks and Chinese.

Atahualpa
Look man, whatever. I'm not here to bash people's countries, I just wanted some information. Frankly, my feelings towards Cuba and Nircaragua are neutral, its just I don't consider them important historical civilizations. You should probably take your own advice and grow up. You come to these forms with a hostile attitude and start typing insults over the internet, and my opinion actually angers you. It mattered to me in AOE2 what civs I played as or against, and I see no difference for CtP2. If you still want to get bent out of shape because of a minor point I made you should probably ignore my posts, as I will not respond to yours anymore because they contain irrelevant information.

Please, someone respond to this thread if they see any information regarding civilizations. Thank you.

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"There is no more illustrious history than the history of the Magyar Nation... The whole civilized world is indebted to Magyarland for its historic deeds."
-Theodore Roosevelt, to the Hungarian Parliament,
April 2, 1910

Atahualpa · October 14, 2000, 03:09

quote:

If you play with a lot of Islands, don`t you
rather play Indonesia,Cuba,England,Australia,Trinidad Tobago, and that kind of civs just trying to live yourself into the game?

No! Every game I start may be the earth in another parallel universe (not that I would believe this but its better to explain using this model). I dont want a 1:1 copy of THIS world! I like this world to be a model! And the game lets me simulate human evolution in this model! Where the outcome is always different!

quote:

I'm sorry people took a minor point I made, blew it out of proportion and changed the topic of the thread

To me its not a minor point!

quote:

I never downloaded the patches. I played about half of one game and that was enough for me.

So you didnt play the game but say all the time that it nerves you playing against Cubans when you have played only ONE game?
Isnt that a bit hypocrite?

quote:

I'm not here to bash people's countries, I just wanted some information. Frankly, my feelings towards Cuba and Nircaragua are neutral, its just I don't consider them important historical civilizations.

So what? Where is written that only historical important civilizations can enter the universe of Civilization?

quote:

You come to these forms with a hostile attitude and start typing insults over the internet, and my opinion actually angers you.

Yeah right it does! Cause its arrogant to say that other civs dont deserve to be in a game because they havent had much importance! Importance does vary from person to person! I like playing Cubans for example!

quote:

It mattered to me in AOE2 what civs I played as or against, and I see no difference for CtP2.

Okay here is the difference: In AOE2 every "civ" has a unique tech tree and an own unique unit (or 2 in case of the vikings). Besides every "civ" has some special bonuses.
In CtP2 the name of the "civ" is a wrapper around the AI not more. In CtP1 personalties were fixed for civs so you could throw all slaver civs in one pot cause they acted the same. You could switch the AIs starting places and play the game again by doing the same actions and the outcome would be the same, however with AI's having changed starting places! (theoretically of course). In CtP2 it is different as Personalties are random, so in one game Americans are slavers and in another Americans are researchers!
Thats why it doesnt matter against which civs you play!

Besides why do you want to deny Cuban Players to play their own country? (okay maybe because they dont get to play the game because of the embargo, but fit in other countries and tell me again).
I live in Austria and in no Civ game now I have been able to play my own country, regardless if it is historically important or not I want to do that!

quote:

If you still want to get bent out of shape because of a minor point I made you should probably ignore my posts, as I will not respond to yours anymore because they contain irrelevant information

Sorry that is one thing I cant do! Besides I gave you pretty much information here on why it doesnt matter! And again: Its not a minor point to me!
If Cubans are out there are only the Irish left to play for me! And the French.

ATa

Grand Master Fe Long · October 14, 2000, 08:30

you could try to make your own fictional civ. i made over 20 and used them instead of the real ones for CTP. i made 3 of my own scenarios using them which were really cool. I would have posted them on the web but i never got any feedback from my previous stuff so i didn't bother puting any more stuff up any more. Well i guess if you don't like whats included why dont you just edit it yourself to what you personaly like! in ctp i made extra civs like Vietnam, Denmark, Pakistan, Bosnia, Serbia etc as well as the fictional ones! im sure it will be as easy to do in ctp2 as well.

samurai · October 14, 2000, 10:12

Why don`t we arrange something so Ata and MagyarCrusader can come together and play an MP
game with each other.And maybe they can tolerate
each other.
Why can`t we all just be a big bunch of civ friends?

KaiserIsak · October 15, 2000, 10:33

The reason why these civs are included is for people from their countries to play them, and feel that their country is a supreme country, after all. They should´nt be removed, activision should just add the ability to choice which civs u want to play against.

Or better, make it possible to pl

Solver · October 15, 2000, 11:20

In CTP I sometimes missed feature from Civ: Cusiom Civilization, where you enter the name.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

Solver · October 15, 2000, 11:34

I also forgot to mention this: in Civ I, I haven't had the ability to play for my country, I only gained it in CTP and I want it to remain in CTP2. Basically, the easiest way is to create a civ for each country in the World (about 200) and some more for people without a country (like Palestinians). Then noone would said "I can't play for my country". Basically, I choose either
1. Civ of my country (usually)
2. Or the civ, history of which is interesting for me (e.g. Egyptians, as I know Ancient Egyptian histroy good).
I don't care who my enemies are, as this doens't change their personality.
And I don't understand this: why are the Aztecs removed in CTP? Now there are only Mexicans, while in the original Civ there were Aztecs.
So, I have my country in there and I don't have to worry about that.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

Atahualpa · October 15, 2000, 14:54

quote:

I don't care who my enemies are, as this doens't change their personality.

See this is exactly my point! But for MagyarCrusader it does matter. However he hasnt explained why!

Ata

Bali · October 15, 2000, 22:21

For the sake of historical semblance still civilizations should have at least 2 names - ancient and modern. E.g. Azteks at one stage become Mexicans with picture in diplomacy screen changing too, or Romans become Italians etc.

I still care also for the name of the adversary which should more or less fit historical period.

Joseph · October 16, 2000, 13:18

MagyarCrusader

A little history lesson for all of us. If I make a mistake, please correct it. The people of Cuba and Nicaragua have been around for thousands of years. European man did not find them until Columbus sail here (1492), plus the others, who follow him. America is not a great Civ. Yes I believe we are a great country, but not a great Civ. All of us, that lives here have ancestry to Europe, Asia, Africa, North, Central and South America. The only real American, are the Indians of North, Central and South America. Granted, the people that lives in Cuba and Nicaragua today, are a mix of, Spainish, African, and Indian. The only real Civs from yesterday that are still around today, is the Chinese, Japanese, maybe India and I almost forgot Mongolia. Europe as we know, had everone making a run through it, and so most of the today Europens, have a little of everthing mix in. One of the great Civs of yesterday was the Celts. They move from Northen Germany to lower England, then to Wales, and then to Ireland. I read that Russia and Scotland was started by the Viking. I guess that the Viking are still here today, only in the form of Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland. The Greeces are still here. Someone mention the Palestinian. They have been around for a few thousand years also. I just look them up on the Internet. It looks like they are related to the Philistine. Remmber the Arabs of today are not the people that live in the area (middle east), thousands of years ago. They overran the area when Muhammad was their leader.
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[This message has been edited by Joseph (edited October 16, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Joseph (edited October 16, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Joseph (edited October 17, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Joseph (edited October 17, 2000).]

Stratesford · October 17, 2000, 06:00

Hey, you forgot the mayans they been around for 3,000 years. They also built the biggest stone monument in the world and the 2nd biggest pyramid (1st goes to the Teotihucans). To me the mayans are still idependent from mexico and guatemala, even if these governments don't accept it. They dare call a fight for indipendence a guerrilla.

I also think that they should put the aztecs instead of the mexicans. Cuz' Mexico is a country not a civ. I think they should put the real name of the aztecs wich is "Aztecatl", and maybe they should do that for every civ as well.